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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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 Posted: 05/18/24 7:15 am ::: LV convention center offers Ace players 100,000 sponsorhip |
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100 Grand for each player as city representatives. It appears they are going to do what is a common practice in the European Leagues. There cities and corperations fund their womens and mens teams. That is why they can pay more. The attendence is very sparce so the money comes from Sponsorship.
If this catches on then the WNBA will begin to resemble the Uro league where team success is dictated by which venues can afford the biggest sponsorhips. Perhaps this is unfair to players that are not in cities that have that sort of money to spend, but at least it trinkles down to every player and not just the stars and might be a way to keep players in the States.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 05/18/24 8:18 am ::: |
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I’m fascinated by this. I’m glad they are getting money but it feels… odd.
I also think LV is in a unique position for this as the Aces came to town early in the Vegas pro sports boom. Vegas is also a tourism town like no other, so this arrangement makes more sense than it would in, say, Dallas or Chicago.
I’m very curious to see how this pans out.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 05/18/24 9:02 am ::: |
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| I only have one question. Is this arrangement legal within the framework of the agreement that the players have with the league?
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 05/18/24 9:11 am ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| I only have one question. Is this arrangement legal within the framework of the agreement that the players have with the league? |
I imagine it is but it feels like it violates the spirit of the CBA but not the actual CBA. For example, what’s stopping Nike from offering endorsement deals to the entire LA roster for $100k each? It looks a bit fishy but I don’t think it would violate anything. Unless Mark Davis donated 1.2 million to the LVCVB just prior to the offer or something.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 05/18/24 9:26 am ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| I only have one question. Is this arrangement legal within the framework of the agreement that the players have with the league? |
I imagine it is but it feels like it violates the spirit of the CBA but not the actual CBA. For example, what’s stopping Nike from offering endorsement deals to the entire LA roster for $100k each? It looks a bit fishy but I don’t think it would violate anything. Unless Mark Davis donated 1.2 million to the LVCVB just prior to the offer or something. |
Nothing can or will stop outside payments as an inducement for players to take less than the max WNBA salary.
Wait 'til Joe Lacob opens his checkbook and the entire Valkyrie roster has administrative positions with the Warriors ...
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 05/18/24 9:38 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| johnjohnW wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| I only have one question. Is this arrangement legal within the framework of the agreement that the players have with the league? |
I imagine it is but it feels like it violates the spirit of the CBA but not the actual CBA. For example, what’s stopping Nike from offering endorsement deals to the entire LA roster for $100k each? It looks a bit fishy but I don’t think it would violate anything. Unless Mark Davis donated 1.2 million to the LVCVB just prior to the offer or something. |
Nothing can or will stop outside payments as an inducement for players to take less than the max WNBA salary.
Wait 'til Joe Lacob opens his checkbook and the entire Valkyrie roster has administrative positions with the Warriors ... |
Has the rule changed that prevent Kristi Toliver from receiving more than a certain amount of money for being an assistant coach with the Wizards when she played for the Mystics.
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005
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| Posted: 05/18/24 12:50 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| johnjohnW wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| I only have one question. Is this arrangement legal within the framework of the agreement that the players have with the league? |
I imagine it is but it feels like it violates the spirit of the CBA but not the actual CBA. For example, what’s stopping Nike from offering endorsement deals to the entire LA roster for $100k each? It looks a bit fishy but I don’t think it would violate anything. Unless Mark Davis donated 1.2 million to the LVCVB just prior to the offer or something. |
Nothing can or will stop outside payments as an inducement for players to take less than the max WNBA salary.
Wait 'til Joe Lacob opens his checkbook and the entire Valkyrie roster has administrative positions with the Warriors ... |
The way they got this around the cap is that the team supposedly has no involvement in it.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 05/18/24 1:04 pm ::: |
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| Fair and Martin are having really good years.
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johnjohnW
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/18/24 4:30 pm ::: |
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https://x.com/howardmegdal/status/1791924203785982184
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The #WNBA has opened an investigation into the $100,000 bonus payments to each Las Vegas Aces player, multiple sources with direct knowledge tell @TheNextHoops
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
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| Posted: 05/18/24 5:04 pm ::: |
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| Yeah...not sure how this can fly in light of the Toliver coaching "deal".
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johnjohnW
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| Posted: 05/18/24 5:15 pm ::: |
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| ChiSky54 wrote: |
| Yeah...not sure how this can fly in light of the Toliver coaching "deal". |
No shade to Tolliver but I don’t really think her coaching deal was cap circumventing. I think she earned it and I also don’t think she was valuable enough to the Mystics to warrant a sweetheart deal. The league treated it like cap circumvention though so now here we are.
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pilight
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| Posted: 05/18/24 5:19 pm ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
| ChiSky54 wrote: |
| Yeah...not sure how this can fly in light of the Toliver coaching "deal". |
No shade to Tolliver but I don’t really think her coaching deal was cap circumventing. I think she earned it and I also don’t think she was valuable enough to the Mystics to warrant a sweetheart deal. The league treated it like cap circumvention though so now here we are. |
It could have been one, though. Letting her have that deal opens the door for other, less scrupulous deals to be made.
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shontay33
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
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| Posted: 05/18/24 5:45 pm ::: |
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Totally stupid and a waste of time investigating this. It’s almost as if they don’t want the players to have anything. If they want to pay them 100K to tweet out come to Las Vegas for vacation, there shouldn’t be anything wrong with that! Stop trying to stop the bag for these ladies. The league claims that it’s pro women but every time someone wants to compensate or give players an extra benefit or opportunity, the league wants to “investigate a competitive advantage. This is no different than an individual contract signing with a company to advertise their product or service.
If they make an extra 100K, that means that they may not have to play overseas and be late coming into training camp I’m all for it. The teams aren’t being hurt, they are being helped in more ways than one.
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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| Posted: 05/18/24 5:55 pm ::: |
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| ChiSky54 wrote: |
| Yeah...not sure how this can fly in light of the Toliver coaching "deal". |
There might be a difference. I believe the NBA subsidizes the WNBA so that creates a financial connection. I think with the convention center it would depend on a lot of different factors. They probably looked at the legal ramifications before going ahead with that. I don't know if the WNB is in the same financial league as the LV Convention Center. They could lawyer them to death financially.
It could be presented the same way as a contract with Nike or any other sports promotion contract, except it for all the players on the team to represent and promote LV. If this is seen and accepted as legal, it will certainly have a huge impact of the WNBA. It will open up a can of worms either way.
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DTP
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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| Posted: 05/18/24 10:15 pm ::: |
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| shontay33 wrote: |
Totally stupid and a waste of time investigating this. It’s almost as if they don’t want the players to have anything. If they want to pay them 100K to tweet out come to Las Vegas for vacation, there shouldn’t be anything wrong with that! Stop trying to stop the bag for these ladies. The league claims that it’s pro women but every time someone wants to compensate or give players an extra benefit or opportunity, the league wants to “investigate a competitive advantage. This is no different than an individual contract signing with a company to advertise their product or service.
If they make an extra 100K, that means that they may not have to play overseas and be late coming into training camp I’m all for it. The teams aren’t being hurt, they are being helped in more ways than one. |
This is absolutely different though, its pretty hard to argue that it isn't. There's no advertisement or anything, they're simply getting paid extra for being on the team. As an owner of another franchise, why in the world would they not want it investigated? Ultimately, this is still a business and the players and teams agreed to a Collective Bargaining Agreement. Anything that goes against that should be rightfully investigated.
If everything is so legal, I'm not sure why people are freaking out over the investigation unless there was something to hide.... I actually think with all of the agents involved, it's unlikely that the league finds any violations here but there will absolutely be added language in the next CBA to prevent it.
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 05/19/24 12:14 am ::: |
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| DTP wrote: |
| This is absolutely different though, its pretty hard to argue that it isn't. There's no advertisement or anything, they're simply getting paid extra for being on the team. |
But there is advertisement. They're advertising the city of Las Vegas, on behalf of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitor's Authority.
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| If everything is so legal, I'm not sure why people are freaking out over the investigation unless there was something to hide.... |
I don't see anybody "freaking out" over the investigation. I see people who think that the investigation is BS and a waste of time and resources (it's me; I'm people), and I see people who seem to think that the very accusation of impropriety is enough proof that something improper happened, but I don't see anyone "freaking out."
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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| Posted: 05/19/24 3:47 am ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| DTP wrote: |
| This is absolutely different though, its pretty hard to argue that it isn't. There's no advertisement or anything, they're simply getting paid extra for being on the team. |
But there is advertisement. They're advertising the city of Las Vegas, on behalf of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitor's Authority.
| Quote: |
| If everything is so legal, I'm not sure why people are freaking out over the investigation unless there was something to hide.... |
I don't see anybody "freaking out" over the investigation. I see people who think that the investigation is BS and a waste of time and resources (it's me; I'm people), and I see people who seem to think that the very accusation of impropriety is enough proof that something improper happened, but I don't see anyone "freaking out." |
The league is obligated to investigate it. It does not follow that they will find any thing wrong with it though. I am sure the Convention centers legal team investigated it before making the offer. They do have a vested interest in the success of the Aces, because it reflects well on the City.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 05/19/24 12:53 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| DTP wrote: |
| This is absolutely different though, its pretty hard to argue that it isn't. There's no advertisement or anything, they're simply getting paid extra for being on the team. |
But there is advertisement. They're advertising the city of Las Vegas, on behalf of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitor's Authority.
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| If everything is so legal, I'm not sure why people are freaking out over the investigation unless there was something to hide.... |
I don't see anybody "freaking out" over the investigation. I see people who think that the investigation is BS and a waste of time and resources (it's me; I'm people), and I see people who seem to think that the very accusation of impropriety is enough proof that something improper happened, but I don't see anyone "freaking out." |
This deal was supposedly put into action in the last few days. It does not explain why, for a few years now, every significant LV player has been playing for tens of thou less than market worth. We do know that the very limited Hamby investigation last year (not one other player interviewed) resulted in findings of "impermissible benefits" (nature never revealed) and forfeit of first round pick. This year, things got worse. Free Agent Kiah Stokes signed 2 yr deal @ $100k/per which was way below what other FA's got (Dolson, for example $175k). Remember also there are expansion drafts upcoming so no guarantee Stokes will be protected. We also saw both Wilson and Gray sign for tens of thou below their value, and worst might be superstar Jackie Young, who got no raise from $169k when she is worth anywhere from $40-80k more. If u believe an investigation is "BS", I've got a bridge to sell u in Brooklyn.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 05/19/24 12:53 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| DTP wrote: |
| This is absolutely different though, its pretty hard to argue that it isn't. There's no advertisement or anything, they're simply getting paid extra for being on the team. |
But there is advertisement. They're advertising the city of Las Vegas, on behalf of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitor's Authority.
| Quote: |
| If everything is so legal, I'm not sure why people are freaking out over the investigation unless there was something to hide.... |
I don't see anybody "freaking out" over the investigation. I see people who think that the investigation is BS and a waste of time and resources (it's me; I'm people), and I see people who seem to think that the very accusation of impropriety is enough proof that something improper happened, but I don't see anyone "freaking out." |
This deal was supposedly put into action in the last few days. It does not explain why, for a few years now, every significant LV player has been playing for tens of thou less than market worth (I calculate that, during her multi-year LV career, Gray has played for $200-250k less than that market value). We do know that the very limited Hamby investigation last year (not one other player interviewed) resulted in findings of "impermissible benefits" (nature never revealed) and forfeit of first round pick. This year, things got worse. Free Agent Kiah Stokes signed 2 yr deal @ $100k/per which was way below what other FA's got (Dolson, for example $175k). Remember also there are expansion drafts upcoming so no guarantee Stokes will be protected. We also saw both Wilson and Gray sign for tens of thou below their value, and worst might be superstar Jackie Young, who got no raise from $169k when she is worth anywhere from $40-80k more. If u believe an investigation is "BS", I've got a bridge to sell u in Brooklyn.
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 05/19/24 2:37 pm ::: |
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| canadaball wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| DTP wrote: |
| This is absolutely different though, its pretty hard to argue that it isn't. There's no advertisement or anything, they're simply getting paid extra for being on the team. |
But there is advertisement. They're advertising the city of Las Vegas, on behalf of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitor's Authority.
| Quote: |
| If everything is so legal, I'm not sure why people are freaking out over the investigation unless there was something to hide.... |
I don't see anybody "freaking out" over the investigation. I see people who think that the investigation is BS and a waste of time and resources (it's me; I'm people), and I see people who seem to think that the very accusation of impropriety is enough proof that something improper happened, but I don't see anyone "freaking out." |
This deal was supposedly put into action in the last few days. It does not explain why, for a few years now, every significant LV player has been playing for tens of thou less than market worth (I calculate that, during her multi-year LV career, Gray has played for $200-250k less than that market value). We do know that the very limited Hamby investigation last year (not one other player interviewed) resulted in findings of "impermissible benefits" (nature never revealed) and forfeit of first round pick. This year, things got worse. Free Agent Kiah Stokes signed 2 yr deal @ $100k/per which was way below what other FA's got (Dolson, for example $175k). Remember also there are expansion drafts upcoming so no guarantee Stokes will be protected. We also saw both Wilson and Gray sign for tens of thou below their value, and worst might be superstar Jackie Young, who got no raise from $169k when she is worth anywhere from $40-80k more. If u believe an investigation is "BS", I've got a bridge to sell u in Brooklyn. |
Yup, it's little wonder why there is such a sense of entitlement there.
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jmh1982
Joined: 25 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 05/19/24 4:19 pm ::: |
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| canadaball wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| DTP wrote: |
| This is absolutely different though, its pretty hard to argue that it isn't. There's no advertisement or anything, they're simply getting paid extra for being on the team. |
But there is advertisement. They're advertising the city of Las Vegas, on behalf of the Las Vegas Convention and Visitor's Authority.
| Quote: |
| If everything is so legal, I'm not sure why people are freaking out over the investigation unless there was something to hide.... |
I don't see anybody "freaking out" over the investigation. I see people who think that the investigation is BS and a waste of time and resources (it's me; I'm people), and I see people who seem to think that the very accusation of impropriety is enough proof that something improper happened, but I don't see anyone "freaking out." |
This deal was supposedly put into action in the last few days. It does not explain why, for a few years now, every significant LV player has been playing for tens of thou less than market worth (I calculate that, during her multi-year LV career, Gray has played for $200-250k less than that market value). We do know that the very limited Hamby investigation last year (not one other player interviewed) resulted in findings of "impermissible benefits" (nature never revealed) and forfeit of first round pick. This year, things got worse. Free Agent Kiah Stokes signed 2 yr deal @ $100k/per which was way below what other FA's got (Dolson, for example $175k). Remember also there are expansion drafts upcoming so no guarantee Stokes will be protected. We also saw both Wilson and Gray sign for tens of thou below their value, and worst might be superstar Jackie Young, who got no raise from $169k when she is worth anywhere from $40-80k more. If u believe an investigation is "BS", I've got a bridge to sell u in Brooklyn. |
It's one thing to have enough money from sponsors to be willing to take less to be able to help your team stay under the cap, but having a 3rd party paying all of the players 100k to presumably stay for less money is quite fishy. Wouldn't be surprised if the WNBA finds something wrong with this.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 05/19/24 4:45 pm ::: |
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| Remember all the hubbub about this current CBA when it was new where players would reportedly be able to make up to $500,000? Stuff like this must have something to do with that. How you implement such a system and keep salary caps relevant is a mystery to me.
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canadaball
Joined: 24 May 2013
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| Posted: 05/19/24 4:47 pm ::: |
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" it's little wonder why there is such a sense of entitlement there."
I went thru the articles when the Hamby penalties came down last May. It should be noted that the W had never before penalized a team with loss of draft pick. The Aces denied all wrong doing and have never admitted any fault; in addition, they confirmed the limited nature of investigation in confirming that no other player was ever questioned. When u let a team cheat, things can get worse as evident by the continued LV shenanigans underpaying players this year.
I find it galling that Alysha Clark (reminder that Clark, on paper, took $60k/yr cut to play with LV) and Wilson complained about the attention and talked about "growing the game". Maybe someone should ask them how playing for $40-60k under market worth thus circumventing the salary cap helps the sport. LV Aces has become the Harlem Globetrotters playing with one set of rules while rest of league fills the Washington Generals sucker role (example Seattle Storm go thru hoops to avoid $3k salary cap squeeze), while, incredibly, with all their talent, LV still has cap room to play with 11 women roster and bring in high paid player. I have been frustrated that since the penalties came down last year, not one media member has asked any questions (Megdal who broke original Hamby accusations in Feb last year went on total silence till yesterday), and W managements said not a word. My guess was they wanted to avoid embarrassment with new media deals on way. The encouraging signs out there are that it appears no other teams will make any personnel deals with LV. I also found in interesting that the Aces could only play the Puerto Rico team in preseason. Is it possible the other teams may have refused to play them in protest of their unapologetic misdeeds? This post facto LV convention deal (remember supposedly only 2 days old) does not explain away any of the past low pay. I actually think it is a terrible unforced error which resurrected whole issue on sports pages around the USA. Perhaps this time, someone will ask what was exact nature of the "impermissible benefits", and actually ask all these LV stars why they have given up hundreds of thousands in potential pay?
Last edited by canadaball on 05/19/24 5:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 05/19/24 5:03 pm ::: |
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Stokes is not the best example, as offensive cyphers tend to have very limited value as free agents.
It seems far fetched that this happened with no input from Mark Davis or someone employed by him.
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