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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg
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 Posted: 03/07/24 11:33 am ::: Why has Oregon plummeted? |
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Graves lost the irreplaceable Ionescu in 2020?
Graves lost assistant Mike Campbell, the real recruiting and coaching genius, in 2021?
Graves has just lost it in general?
Something else? |
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16359
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 03/07/24 11:39 am ::: Re: Why has Oregon plummeted? |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Graves lost the irreplaceable Ionescu in 2020?
Graves lost assistant Mike Campbell, the real recruiting and coaching genius, in 2021?
Graves has just lost it in general?
Something else? |
I have been wondering the same thing, especially when looking at the number of transfers out they have had of late.
It won't get any easier as the join the B10 next year and add crazy travel and weird geography to the job.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/07/24 9:58 pm ::: Re: Why has Oregon plummeted? |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Graves lost the irreplaceable Ionescu in 2020?
Graves lost assistant Mike Campbell, the real recruiting and coaching genius, in 2021?
Graves has just lost it in general?
Something else? |
I have been wondering the same thing, especially when looking at the number of transfers out they have had of late.
It won't get any easier as the join the B10 next year and add crazy travel and weird geography to the job. |
I'll repost here (most of) what I posted in the 'Pac 12' thread:
| osubeavers wrote: |
| Why all of that highly regarded talent has chosen to fly the coop is anybody’s guess. But none of the likely reasons bode well for the head coach who recruited it. |
Oregon has absolutely been The Poster Child for Highly-Ranked schools that have profusely *bled* talent. Jeff Walz might be a close second, but his season isn't all that abyssmal.
There are a lotta theories. For one thing, The Sabrina Years brought a ton of success which obviously draws the attention of high-ranking recruits. That first #1 class to come in (Parrish, PaoPao, Watson, Scherr, and Dugalic) WERE highly talented, but after Sabrina left, there was NEVER a true floor general that created a dynamic force to meld these players into anything but individual semi-stars. IMO, Sabrina really didn't NEED a coach by her junior year....she could handle it very nicely on her own. Not one of the newbies came anywhere near close to that.
So for the 20-21 season (months after Covid nixed what could have been Oregon's first NC, we have a small collection of Wannabe Stars (none of whom really got to play with Sabrina & Co) This roster, holding the #1 recruiting class of the season, was stacked with talent....mostly freshmen. Their season record was a mediocre 10-7 in conference, 15-9 overall (lotsa Covid cancellations)
And the injury bug hits. Dugalic, Prince, Sabally #2, even PaoPao for a while. All this time, the Portal starts beaming brightly with neon lights. I get why these kids were drawn to other programs - closer to home, better prospects for successful team records, etc. If you look at that roster I linked, nine - NINE of those players transferred out to P5 schools. And I never once heard Kelly disparage these kids; in fact, he lauded them all as hard-working kids who deserved success.
And there's another point: Kelly himself. Maybe some think his head should roll, but I've heard him laugh at that during such questions at post-game pressers. He recently pointed out that their "Gold Standard" years were with him at the helm. I believe another feature about Kelly is that he's NOT an in-your-face, jack you up kind of a coach. If that's what you need to grow as a player, Oregon might not be for you. I see that as a positive in him: he's ALWAYS positive about the kids. I've never once heard him throw anybody under the bus. Coaching styles will vary, and - like him or not - he HAS had significant success in 2 strong programs.
As per my signature line, Oregon will be fine. Between the portal and injury factors, it's been a low year, but he's got some talent already, and some more coming in, even before portal options are open.
Although I detest the disintegration of the PAC 12, I'm pretty sure Oregon will be okay in The Big Ten. They're certainly not gonna dominate, but they'll most likely win more than the 2 conference games they won this year in the PAC. Anddd....I'll get to see some of their games out east. 
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
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| Posted: 03/08/24 8:11 am ::: Re: Why has Oregon plummeted? |
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| Howee wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Graves lost the irreplaceable Ionescu in 2020?
Graves lost assistant Mike Campbell, the real recruiting and coaching genius, in 2021?
Graves has just lost it in general?
Something else? |
I have been wondering the same thing, especially when looking at the number of transfers out they have had of late.
It won't get any easier as the join the B10 next year and add crazy travel and weird geography to the job. |
I'll repost here (most of) what I posted in the 'Pac 12' thread:
| osubeavers wrote: |
| Why all of that highly regarded talent has chosen to fly the coop is anybody’s guess. But none of the likely reasons bode well for the head coach who recruited it. |
Oregon has absolutely been The Poster Child for Highly-Ranked schools that have profusely *bled* talent. Jeff Walz might be a close second, but his season isn't all that abyssmal.
There are a lotta theories. For one thing, The Sabrina Years brought a ton of success which obviously draws the attention of high-ranking recruits. That first #1 class to come in (Parrish, PaoPao, Watson, Scherr, and Dugalic) WERE highly talented, but after Sabrina left, there was NEVER a true floor general that created a dynamic force to meld these players into anything but individual semi-stars. IMO, Sabrina really didn't NEED a coach by her junior year....she could handle it very nicely on her own. Not one of the newbies came anywhere near close to that.
So for the 20-21 season (months after Covid nixed what could have been Oregon's first NC, we have a small collection of Wannabe Stars (none of whom really got to play with Sabrina & Co) This roster, holding the #1 recruiting class of the season, was stacked with talent....mostly freshmen. Their season record was a mediocre 10-7 in conference, 15-9 overall (lotsa Covid cancellations)
And the injury bug hits. Dugalic, Prince, Sabally #2, even PaoPao for a while. All this time, the Portal starts beaming brightly with neon lights. I get why these kids were drawn to other programs - closer to home, better prospects for successful team records, etc. If you look at that roster I linked, nine - NINE of those players transferred out to P5 schools. And I never once heard Kelly disparage these kids; in fact, he lauded them all as hard-working kids who deserved success.
And there's another point: Kelly himself. Maybe some think his head should roll, but I've heard him laugh at that during such questions at post-game pressers. He recently pointed out that their "Gold Standard" years were with him at the helm. I believe another feature about Kelly is that he's NOT an in-your-face, jack you up kind of a coach. If that's what you need to grow as a player, Oregon might not be for you. I see that as a positive in him: he's ALWAYS positive about the kids. I've never once heard him throw anybody under the bus. Coaching styles will vary, and - like him or not - he HAS had significant success in 2 strong programs.
As per my signature line, Oregon will be fine. Between the portal and injury factors, it's been a low year, but he's got some talent already, and some more coming in, even before portal options are open.
Although I detest the disintegration of the PAC 12, I'm pretty sure Oregon will be okay in The Big Ten. They're certainly not gonna dominate, but they'll most likely win more than the 2 conference games they won this year in the PAC. Anddd....I'll get to see some of their games out east. |
I think you missed one VERY VERY VERY important piece here. That 2020 Oregon team(don't start South Carolina fans) was completely deprived of their shine and actual glory. They were just so good. I mean, they had two WNBA MVP caliber players in their starting lineup, they were balanced, and well coached. I think a trip to the FF and a possible NC would've changed the entire psyche of the coaches and the players heading into 2021.
There had to be a major "balloon pop" aura around the team. Like, Stanford and SC got their titles with the 2020 kids who had their seasons cancelled....Oregon did not. It just, ended.
Their careers are just not complete. And I think that in June, they should've selected 8 teams and done a mini-NCAAT.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11149
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| Posted: 03/08/24 10:15 am ::: |
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There's a shelf life for everything ...
I think Mark Campbell's departure was a huge loss, but it just seems like Kelly Graves has lost his connection to his players, for whatever reason. The beatdown by Colorado in the tournament was not a good look ...
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 03/08/24 1:46 pm ::: |
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Mark Campbell's loss was certainly *big*. However, don't forget that Kelly had created success on his own, long before Mark. [See: Gonzaga] That said, I'd agree that Kelly DOES seem to have become a different kinda coach, in ways that are tough to define.
It seems to have been a Perfect Storm of negatives, beginning with Covid. Of course, everyone dealt with THAT, but Oregon's following sequence of events (injuries, defections) were a bit extreme. I'm hoping a new season, a new playground (B1G), and new portal options help fix things.
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Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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