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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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 Posted: 01/08/24 9:08 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
Just playing devil's advocate on that, I don't think the math is that simple.
It seems to me from afar that a significant factor in US elections is how many people actually cast a vote, since doing so is voluntary (and in many cases, also inconvenient). Any type of "movement" that gets one side voting could have quite an impact.
Secondly, a margin of X million can mean very little or even literally nothing for the final outcome, depending on how those extra votes are distributed. |
All of what you say is possible, tho (again, IMO) not PROBABLE.
Your premise is predicated on several possibilities: LARGE percentages of one Party's voters becoming utterly apathetic (and not voting) is probably the most realistic one. With the 2020 election seeing a record number of total voters (and 2022 saw record numbers too, for a mid-term election), I can't imagine that being very probable.
Also, voter distribution is certainly relevant, given our Electoral College system. Five states (WI, AZ, GA, MI, and PA) 'changed their minds' in 2020 over their selections compared to 2016. Five (High Stakes) states chose Trump in 2016, but not in 2020. CAN that be reversed. Yeah, but....not likely ALL of them might do that.
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/09/24 7:02 am ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| My firmest prediction is that the 14th amendment shtick won't work to keep Trump off any state ballot. |
Unless Trump is actually convicted of something to do with insurrection, I tend to agree |
Does this mean you’re skeptical of him being guilty or are you skeptical of him finally coming to justice? I guess people are so used to Trump lying and getting away with it that people consider it his right to lie. But when you lie so much that it causes people to riot, especially on the capitol, then yes you should be held responsible.
<iframe width="630" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ic5iEx9RDrE?si=c0dR6d4nKPvg3SVy" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
If that's the standard you want to have then we can toss Bernie Sanders in prison right now for the Congressional baseball shooting and a whole host of other politicians who had nothing to do with the actions of their constituents.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/11/24 6:37 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Jammer, I don't buy your scenario for the Repubs. If Trump isn't on the ticket for some reason, it will be DeSantis or Haley. Trump's base will overwhelming vote for either of them rather than a Democrat scion like Kennedy, and either has a small chance to beat Biden.
Probably a better chance than Trump, who I think would lose a close one to Biden.
My firmest prediction is that the 14th amendment shtick won't work to keep Trump off any state ballot. |
I'm thinking Biden is the weakest candidate out of Trump and Kennedy. I mean, he's just weak, period. And I think polls have shown how little faith even Democrats have in his mental and I guess physical capacity to do the job. But he does have the strongest machine behind him and that is the Orwellian nightmare we now call the Democratic Party.
I think if by election day Trump is unencumbered by any of the legal or electoral challenges that are being thrown at him at this time... I'm thinking he's very likely to win it. No matter who is running on the Democratic side or, sadly, even the presence of RFK Jr. But I said likely and not that he's a sure thing.
I absolutely think the MAGA base would revolt at Haley and DeSantis is simply never going to be elected POTUS._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 01/11/24 6:58 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| All the talking points shared in the thread here are, imo, those generated by the general media and specifically the social media morass. |
Hmm. Okay, well, here's a little general media to consider. From ABC (formerly on CBS.)
The View.
Whoopi begs Dick Cheney's Republican daughter Liz to run third party claiming that Trump wants to be a dictator for life:
"If he ever gets in again we'll never have any more elections. There will be no more. He will stop it and he's very clear about that. He wants to be dictator for life!"
First of all, he’s 77. I can only hope that when I’m 77 someone is saying something about me like, “If we let him have the remote again we’re never going to get it back.” Which, god willing, would at least be true.
Second, how could Donald Trump permanently take over the US government when the entire entrenched political class establishment in this country and the news media is obsessed with actively opposing him?
This is a women’s show. Content created for women, hosted by women. This is hysterics. The mainstream media is feeding hysterics to the women of this country cynically hoping that the women of America will respond in a hysterical manner.
So tell me, who really are the misogynists here?
Ironically, if there’s one thing we know about Trump it’s that he will be completely ineffectual at permanently changing anything in this country that needs to be changed. He’s already had one term as president to prove that.
If you really want to change this country there’s only one candidate available who can and will do that and that is Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And he certainly is not going to be a dictator who takes away the rights of Americans to speak freely and choose who leads this country._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 01/15/24 12:01 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| I think if by election day Trump is unencumbered by any of the legal or electoral challenges that are being thrown at him at this time... I'm thinking he's very likely to win it. |
I'm still missing where you might have countered the *numbers* dilemma: you really think THAT many Dems/Indep voteres will NOW decide, "Yeah, I really DO like Trump much more this time around!"...?
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 01/16/24 4:44 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| I think if by election day Trump is unencumbered by any of the legal or electoral challenges that are being thrown at him at this time... I'm thinking he's very likely to win it. |
I'm still missing where you might have countered the *numbers* dilemma: you really think THAT many Dems/Indep voteres will NOW decide, "Yeah, I really DO like Trump much more this time around!"...? |
First, your "numbers dilemma" is like a box or cell and you've put your numbers in there and put ME in there and are saying, "OK, jammer, solve the numbers dilemma in order to get out of the cell I have placed you in."
But I'm not in your cell with your numbers. It's just something you've put together; a way of looking at the upcoming election that makes sense to you. And that's fine but it really is just one way of looking at what might happen in this election. If you think you've got it figured out there then more power to you.
This second part though.
"You really think THAT many Dems/Indep voteres will NOW decide, "Yeah, I really DO like Trump much more this time around!"...?
Working backwards from your imaginary quoting of these D/I voters. You're writing this script asking me if these people are going to decide that they "REALLY DO LIKE TRUMP MUCH MORE" than whatever.
You're asking me will they LIKE him. MUCH MORE? So MANY people who voted for Trump have said in focus groups that they DON'T like Trump. So forget the liking of Trump part, More or less. What about DISLIKING the direction the country is going in? Thinking we might all get blown up here one of these days? Looking at the border.
So... look... I'm tired and I'm not going to look back at what you're numbers are based on but I think it was the last election? Right? I would suggest that's not really a strong indication of anything that might happen this year. I know what you're thinking. You're look at all of these elections going back to Bush/Gore and how close they've all been and its basically this handful of swing state voters etc. And all that. Let's look at that and block out everything that's happening in the country and the world.
I don't see it that way. Sure the election might be close. I think Kennedy is more likely to hurt the Democratic candidate than Trump. So there's a possibility in my mind that Trump could win the popular vote. But I'm here to say that the state of the country and the world and our foreign policy has deteriorated to an incredible degree.
The country is a shithole and we're on the road to having given way a quarter of trillion dollars to these wars. And we might get our asses blown up and ALL life on this planet irradicated due to the decisions of this administration. So I think these are factors that are going to change a lot of swing state Biden votes to Trump or back to Trump.
There's one other thing. If anyone saw Trump's speech in Iowa tonight... WOW. Watch it if you dare. They took away the teleprompters before he got out there. He was like a dad giving a toast at his daughter's wedding. He was a completely different person. I know you guys are going to challenge me on this because you haven't seen it or probably haven't watched the comentary on CNN, of all places.
Trump spoke VERY kindly of Haley and DeSantis. He said all of his opponents were smart capable people.
WHAT?
So here's the thing. I don't know if Trump can ever actually BE that person for long. But I have ALWAYS said, right here on Rebkell's, that if he had a political advisor or the sense to do it himself, and STOPPED acting a fool, and started acting like a normal kind human being that many have said he is privately, he would have won in landslides in both 2016 and in 2020 and he if he tones it all down and proceeds from here through to the summer behaving as the assumed nominee (power perceived is power achieved) his numbers will start to reveal that he's burying Biden.
Which could be the last straw for the Dems who might then pull the plug on him before the convention.
I think you made some kind of defense of Biden's mental function. Someone has talked about that things have deteriorated in terms of public discourse to the point that people aren't even able to agree upon basic verifiable facts. And, IMO, that's due mostly to politics and politcal viewpoints. But the thinking is that this is a new, and almost NOT human historical development. Certainly something that signals a turning away from the enlightenment etc.
We can't use logic if we can't agree of basic facts. So, I consider it to be a basic fact that Biden's mental capacity, his mental energy, all the things that become 'at issue' for so many of our elderly citizens at some point, is evident. I'm not going to say what it is. lol. Because, for me, it doesn't even need to be stated. Because if we state it then we are going to argue about it. And if we argue about it, then one side is simply ridiculous and we're in some kind of never never world where facts don't matter any more.
Enough of us can't see them or, let's be real, refuse to admit them, for political reasons, that we can't move forward in reality together.
This really is where we're at. Watch Trump's speech tonight. No teleprompter. I'm telling you honestly. I could not have done that. I am a very smart person, I would think smarter than Trump, a pretty good writer, I read a lot, I have a great voice, but I couldn't do what Trump did tonight. I would have stared into space at least a couple of times and said, "Damn, I forgot what I was going to say." And I'm 12 years younger than Trump.
I'm telling you, Trump is sharper than ever. Believe me, don't believe me. But what hurts the jammer's feelings is people not trusting me. You should trust me. Trump is sharper than he's ever been.
On the other hand, Biden is a case of, IMO, and I've heard many others say this, elderly abuse. His wife is a disgrace for putting him and the country through this. And I've heard many say this as well.
Look. I remember Joe Biden. I've been watching politics for almost 60 years. Didn't have a choice in my household. This guy was always a DUMB ASS and an ASSHOLE. A liar and a crook. This is coming from a lifelong Democrat. He was busted by the news media back in the 80s during his first presidential try back when we HAD a news media that actually did the job.
This isn't that same guy any more. If it was, we'd be even MORE fucked than we are. Now a lot of this stuff I'm saying is MY OPINION. But no one can come here and deny that Joe Biden is clearly in a state of mental decline and that he is not the same person he was even 15 years ago. That is not my opinion. That is a fact. Anyone who is not blinded by their political affiliations would readily admit that.
Why you should trust me is that my political affiliation my whole life until the last few years has been Democrat. But I now see the Democratic Party as being the more powerful half of the duopoly that controls our country and our political processes. And that duopoly is an essential part of a frightening global elite that has been consolidating its control over western nations for decades now.
And I think the only answer and maybe the only hope to break the grip that our party and the duopoly and these freaky globalist forces have on this country is to elect RFK Jr. president. And before he declared as an independent I was going to vote for him as a good Democrat voting for an old school traditional Kennedy liberal Democrat.
But I've taken the heat here for years for simply telling what I believe to be the truth about Trump. I predicted he could win in 2016. Mercfan laughed at me. I'm saying now that unless the Democratic Party is successful in their banana republic efforts to keep their principle rival out of the election he is very likely to win in November.
Okay, I'm done.  _________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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mercfan3
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| Posted: 01/16/24 9:00 am ::: |
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People consistently tell me Biden is a weak candidate, and yet he’s done well the past two elections. It’s better for Dems to get us scared rather than complacent, but I think he’ll do better than predictions.
IMO, the only Republican candidate I’m afraid of is Haley. She would absolutely win a general election. The good news is she won’t win the primary.
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Luuuc
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 01/16/24 9:40 am ::: |
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So I believe Trump is going to pick Ron DeSantis as his VP. Certainly never Haley. He might like Vivek most of all, but he wouldn’t dare pick him as a running mate. Vivek is such a firebrand and the duopoly and the mainstream media have both already drawn a red line there. That dude is HATED by the establishment.
And Trump is now a much more clever and experienced politician. He’s read the political landscape and the moment and he’s taking his lead and the power it gives him and was very clearly signaling to his party last night that he’s going to tone things down and make decisions that everyone in the party can get behind.
Trump/DeSantis would be the Republican establishment’s dream given the fact that the voters have once again taken the matter of choosing the nominee out of its hands by going so strong for Trump that the party has no choice but to get on board. Choosing DeSantis would make that much easier and the whole Republican primary would essentially just go away.
Anyway. That’s what I think._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 01/16/24 10:01 am ::: |
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Trump won Iowa last night by getting just 51% of the votes. I wouldn't consider that a landside victory at all. Means 49% of Republicans in Iowa didn't vote for him. That should be alarming for the GOP, but they're celebrating his victory saying he dominated the votes. Another alarming note nobody is pointing out is the low turnout. Where were all the MAGA crazies in Iowa?
As for his possible VP, it won't be DeSantis as both have been throwing each other under the bus lately. If he's smart, he won't pick Haley as I think she's the GOPs best option for 2028 currently. The rumors of him picking Tucker Carlson is so laughable that he would actually do it. Regardless, I think he'll pick someone completely out of left field.
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mercfan3
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| Posted: 01/16/24 10:11 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
Trump won Iowa last night by getting just 51% of the votes. I wouldn't consider that a landside victory at all. Means 49% of Republicans in Iowa didn't vote for him. That should be alarming for the GOP, but they're celebrating his victory saying he dominated the votes. Another alarming note nobody is pointing out is the low turnout. Where were all the MAGA crazies in Iowa?
As for his possible VP, it won't be DeSantis as both have been throwing each other under the bus lately. If he's smart, he won't pick Haley as I think she's the GOPs best option for 2028 currently. The rumors of him picking Tucker Carlson is so laughable that he would actually do it. Regardless, I think he'll pick someone completely out of left field. |
I think he’s going to pick that Arizona lady that keeps insisting she won, but didn’t.
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pilight
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| Posted: 01/16/24 10:27 am ::: |
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The low turnout was largely weather related.
Ryan Binkley spent an awful lot of time and money to get half a percent of the vote.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 01/16/24 2:33 pm ::: |
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Perhaps you were in a chemically-induced haze when you tried to intepret my numbers theory, but I'll reiterate it for ya:
My (very UNimagined/Real) numbers were:
Election 2020:
Biden: 81.3 million votes, Trump: 74.2 million votes = Record-setting turnout
If EVERY ONE of those people who voted on those 2 choices in 2020 actually comes back to vote this fall, how many of those 8.1 surplus voters for Biden might have changed their minds and will NOW vote for Trump? Have you met anyone in that category?
Biden goes into this election with a head start of 8.1 million votes: it's that simple.
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| But no one can come here and deny that Joe Biden is clearly in a state of mental decline and that he is not the same person he was even 15 years ago. That is not my opinion. That is a fact. Anyone who is not blinded by their political affiliations would readily admit that. |
I didn't see anybody here declare Joe to be 'in his prime'....I don't think he's as sharp as he was in 2020 (but then, neither are you nor I) Yeah, his *aging* is a factor. BUTTTT....I'd much rather have a dottery old man at the helm than The [Vindictive, Egomaniacal, Self-serving, Womanizing, Lying, Diaper-wearing, Psychologically-impaired, Loathsome, Adderol-addicted, Geo-Politically Impaired, Divisive, Low IQ,] P.O.S. that is Trump.
IT'S ALL COMPARATIVE!.Next to The Orange Turd, Biden is Nugget Of Gold. 
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
Okay, I'm done. |
Haha!  You are NOT!
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toad455
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| Posted: 01/16/24 5:59 pm ::: |
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| There's so many red flags with Trump getting reelected, but then for 2028, he'd probably shoved Don Jr. as the nominee, not whoever his VP ends up being. Scary though.
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jammerbirdi
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| Posted: 01/16/24 6:15 pm ::: |
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How long has the board been acting up like this?_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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tfan
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| Posted: 01/16/24 8:58 pm ::: |
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The USA put the Bush Regime war criminals back for a second term so I think the likely outcome is that Genocide Joe gets a second term. America likes bomb droppers. And the establishment would start a war with Russia to raise Biden's popularity before they would let Trump back in office. They need a lying pathological work-for-the-donor-class-and-military-industrial-complex President that they also can take to the country club and fit in. Trump, despite having most of what they want, doesn't have it all. Not everything he says is to their liking and worst of all, he has a blue collar delivery. Oddly enough, while the donor class shrieks about Trump to their psychiatrist, despite the pandemic and "drink bleach" and "Charlottesville" hoaxes, he got a higher percentage of the vote of every demographic except white males. True story:
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-support-demographics-white-men-exit-poll-1545144
But Trump should campaign on doing more drone strikes than Obama (both did hundreds. Not sure how Biden measures up against him though.
But Obama was no slouch in bomb dropping:
| Quote: |
| Looking back at President Obama’s legacy, the Council on Foreign Relation’s Micah Zenko added up the defense department’s data on airstrikes and made a startling revelation: in 2016 alone, the Obama administration dropped at least 26,171 bombs.This means that every day last year, the US military blasted combatants or civilians overseas with 72 bombs; that’s three bombs every hour, 24 hours a day. |
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jan/09/america-dropped-26171-bombs-2016-obama-legacy
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 01/16/24 9:17 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| But Trump should campaign on doing more drone strikes than Obama (both did hundreds. Not sure how Biden measures up against him though. |
In case you care, Biden apparently uses drone strikes WAY WAY less frequently than Trump did, at least as of the halfway point of his term. Source: Airwars.
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
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| Posted: 01/16/24 9:28 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| The country is a shithole... |
Just gonna note that the median citizen of this country lives in a state of comfort and affluence that the vast majority of people throughout human history would've been utterly unable to conceptualize (much less attain), and which-- even today-- many multitudes from other nations would risk everything for a chance to join.
The country is not perfect, and certainly has its problems, but if the US is a "shithole", then I'd have to ask: compared to where? Or when?
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pilight
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| Posted: 01/16/24 10:07 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| People consistently tell me Biden is a weak candidate, and yet he’s done well the past two elections. |
Two elections? He's been the nominee once, in 2020, and mostly stayed home and let his surrogates do the campaigning. He just had the good fortune to run against a hated incumbent.
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Howee
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| Posted: 01/16/24 10:12 pm ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| The country is a shithole... |
Just gonna note that the median citizen of this country lives in a state of comfort and affluence that the vast majority of people throughout human history would've been utterly unable to conceptualize (much less attain), and which-- even today-- many multitudes from other nations would risk everything for a chance to join.
The country is not perfect, and certainly has its problems, but if the US is a "shithole", then I'd have to ask: compared to where? Or when? |
Precisely.
I've always seen the MAGA mantra as absurd: when the ratio of (real) American shittiness to Modern American Standard of Living is calculated, the United States of America have never been greater than they are now, the Orange Turd stain notwithstanding.
| pilight wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| People consistently tell me Biden is a weak candidate, and yet he’s done well the past two elections. |
Two elections? He's been the nominee once, in 2020, and mostly stayed home and let his surrogates do the campaigning. He just had the good fortune to run against a hated incumbent. |
One might consider 2022 to be *his* election, in that *his* party's nominees did far better than TurdMan's, i.e., Biden's brand/message had more success.
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pilight
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| Posted: 01/16/24 10:34 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| People consistently tell me Biden is a weak candidate, and yet he’s done well the past two elections. |
Two elections? He's been the nominee once, in 2020, and mostly stayed home and let his surrogates do the campaigning. He just had the good fortune to run against a hated incumbent. |
One might consider 2022 to be *his* election, in that *his* party's nominees did far better than TurdMan's, i.e., Biden's brand/message had more success. |
I think that's a tough case to make. Only picking up one senate seat when the Republicans had more seats and more vulnerable seats to defend isn't great and it washed out when Sinema left the party. Losing nine house seats certainly can't be construed as a win.
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pilight
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| Posted: 01/16/24 10:44 pm ::: Re: 2024 Presidential Election |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| So now there's this guy out there named Kennedy who has managed to get himself on all 50 states' ballots. |
I wanted to come back to this. It is inaccurate. At present Kennedy is on the ballot in one state, Utah. He just hired signature vendors over the weekend to work some of the more difficult states. It is unlikely he will achieve ballot access in all 50 or come close to doing so.
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tfan
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| Posted: 01/17/24 12:35 am ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| But Trump should campaign on doing more drone strikes than Obama (both did hundreds. Not sure how Biden measures up against him though. |
In case you care, Biden apparently uses drone strikes WAY WAY less frequently than Trump did, at least as of the halfway point of his term. Source: Airwars. |
Those drone strike counts are a lot higher than what Snopes put out. And they show Obama's second term doing more than Trump.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-drone-strikes/
But I suspect that the government isn't very good about reporting their drone strikes, seeing how maybe 1 in 500 might make the news. And the small fact that they are all war crimes.
Wikipedia has this which probably explains why they are down under Biden:
| Quote: |
| In October 2017, Trump abolished the Obama-era approval system in favor of a looser, decentralized approach, which gave the military and CIA officials the discretion to decide to launch drone strikes against targets without White House approval. This policy reduced accountability for drone strikes. After Joe Biden took office, he halted counterterrorism drone strikes without White House approval and initiated a broad review of U.S. policy on drone use. |
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_from_U.S._drone_strikes
But Biden led the Democrats into the Iraq war lies and became Genocide Joe (to non NPCs) while rushing tens of billions of dollars of bombs and other weapons (with more to come) into Israel on top of the hundreds of billions of dollars we have given them since Carter (why do they get it and what do they do with it if not to buy stuff to suppress the Palestinians and fight their neighbors), so that they can indiscriminately kill Palestinians in Gaza while leveling buildings so that no one can live there. So his pathological warmonger bonafides are beyond reproach at this point.
Last edited by tfan on 01/17/24 1:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tfan
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| Posted: 01/17/24 1:31 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
I've always seen the MAGA mantra as absurd: when the ratio of (real) American shittiness to Modern American Standard of Living is calculated, the United States of America have never been greater than they are now. |
What you want to calculate is the ability of blue collar workers to get jobs that pay a decent salary that will allow them to live fairly comfortably as was the case for them in previous decades. Those are the people that would have crossed over in swing states. Adding Elon Musk's salary and a Facebook entry level HR person ($180k in Miami) to 4 Starbucks and 4 Amazon warehouse workers and dividing by 10 is going to give a nice standard of living, but not going to give an accurate picture of how people are doing in the bottom half, and particularly the bottom 25%. And speaking of Amazon warehouse workers, Amazon says that people over 50 cannot keep up. Whereas people over 50 were able to work at drug stores and other retail stores that mail order has wiped out.
I was at Target the other day and they had the laundry detergent locked up. A CVS (since closed, likely with shoplifting a major factor) had the bar soap locked up. Other CVS's have other items locked up (but oddly not bar soap...). The closest Walmart locks up dental floss. And that's just to name some things. There's a lot more behind locked plastic/glass. We are heading for a point where you won't be able to walk the aisles, they will just bring it to you. Or it will all be delivered from warehouses. So if we are greater than ever, why do stores have to lock up general consumer staples that they didn't have to do for the history of self-service stores in my lifetime?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2023/08/03/stores-lock-products-curb-shoplifting/70441347007/
If we are greater than ever why is the Supreme Court going to rule on what cities can do to homeless people?
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/01/12/supreme-court-homeless-people-ticketing-cruel-and-unusual/72137429007/
Why are fentanyl deaths increasing to new highs if this country is better than ever? Why does a country that projects itself to be better than ever not do something about fentanyl which primarily comes from outside the USA and has people living on metro city sidewalks?
https://www.npr.org/2023/05/18/1176830906/overdose-death-2022-record
https://ktla.com/news/how-fentanyl-makes-its-way-to-the-united-states/
We've sent factory jobs overseas (since at least the 1960s) but it kept picking up and then in 2000 when China was set to join the World Trade Federation the job export accelerated massively to that country. We have allowed illegal workers to flourish and Biden compounded it by saying at a Democratic debate that he wanted anyone who wanted to to come to the USA border (where inexplicably they will apply for judges-decision-not-law "crime asylum" instead of doing it in at the USA embassy in their country). And lo and behold the message got out and they did. And the rich still have Congress and Administrations not enforcing workplace laws. You can freely hire anyone here illegally and there is little concern about being caught and even less about the punishment being a deterrent when they do a token enforcement. Who wins the job selection process, a 50+ year old American or a 25 year old from Guatemala when the blue collar employer can handle Spanish speaking workers?
And the constant influx of millions upon millions of people (including legal immigration) into already filled up metro areas keeps raising the price of real estate built on finite land, making the "American dream" of owning a home a reality for fewer people. MAGA resonated with blue collar workers (and enough of them were in rust belt swing states) because for a number of people the country is not as good now as it had been for them previously. In terms of real estate, this is likely the best it will ever be for people in the United States. I don't see how it could get better unless the defense budget is re-routed to building cities in rural areas to absorb the infinite population increases.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 01/17/24 7:57 am ::: |
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| patsweetpat wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| The country is a shithole... |
Just gonna note that the median citizen of this country lives in a state of comfort and affluence that the vast majority of people throughout human history would've been utterly unable to conceptualize (much less attain), and which-- even today-- many multitudes from other nations would risk everything for a chance to join.
The country is not perfect, and certainly has its problems, but if the US is a "shithole", then I'd have to ask: compared to where? Or when? |
I look at your first paragraph and am reminded that people of affluence and comfort have an incredible amount of tolerance for the suffering that’s happening all around them. Amazing.
So you walk into your kid’s room, take a look around and say, “This place is a shithole.” And your kid says, “Compared to what? You should see all my friend’s rooms. Much worse.”
You might say, “Compared to when this room was first provided to you. Compared to my own minimal expectations of how neat and clean this room should be and in accord with my own sensibilities of how we all should be living in this house AND how I should be raising you and the qualities I want to instill in you.”
So I have my own sensibilities and expectations and a low pain threshold for what I’m seeing every day in my city and state, what I’ve known to be happening in the rest of the country for decades now, and how all of our lives are diminished by an America that is quite clearly in a state of deep decline.
But as I said, we ARE living in a new era wherein even highly intelligent and educated persons are not in agreement about what seem to be basic facts.
So my answer to what I consider to be, as I said to Howee earlier in this thread, a question or questions that to entertain with a serious answer is to take the conversation into a never-never land of unreality (something I'm apparently willing to do out of respect for who I've always thought you to be) is that I would compare the shithole I consider this country to be NOW to the country it once was.
And, being the aspirational type, I would also compare it to my own hopes and expectations for what this country SHOULD be._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
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