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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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 Posted: 12/20/23 12:50 pm ::: So how does everyone feel about bio males playing collegiate |
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University of Wsshington offered a scholarship to a bio male for women's volleyball, but then rescinded it after a lot of pushback. Now lawsuits are flying to try and get the scholarship offer reinstated. This matters because there have been women's careers ended in high school due to injuries suffered from being knocked out from spikes from trans players pounding down the ball harder than any woman could match. The NCAA has already given its blessing to bio males playing women's sports.... how long until we have trans basketball players being the stars of the sport?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4vAKwC9to0
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Michael
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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| Posted: 12/20/23 12:56 pm ::: Re: So how does everyone feel about bio males playing colleg |
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| Michael wrote: |
| This matters because there have been women's careers ended in high school due to injuries suffered from being knocked out from spikes from trans players pounding down the ball harder than any woman could match. |
Please provide (reputable) sources.
| Michael wrote: |
| how long until we have trans basketball players being the stars of the sport? |
Is this happening at the youth or high school level? If not, what suggests that it will (ever) happen?
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 12/20/23 1:16 pm ::: Re: So how does everyone feel about bio males playing colleg |
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| singinerd54 wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| This matters because there have been women's careers ended in high school due to injuries suffered from being knocked out from spikes from trans players pounding down the ball harder than any woman could match. |
Please provide (reputable) sources.
| Michael wrote: |
| how long until we have trans basketball players being the stars of the sport? |
Is this happening at the youth or high school level? If not, what suggests that it will (ever) happen? |
The clip provided in my first post is a girl getting injured badly in a high school volleyball game by a trans athlete. He hit the ball so hard OVER the block that it hit the opposing player in the head, bounced off into the net, and back halfway to the end line before hitting the floor. She suffered a concussion, neck and spine injuries and has been advised she may never be able to play again.
https://www.kvi.com/2023/12/14/trans-volleyball-player-wins-womens-scholarship-for-university-of-washington-after-concealing-trans-identity-since-age-12/
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Michael
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Michael
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Michael
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 12/20/23 2:16 pm ::: |
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| I think you are just trying to start something. Why don't we have a moderator here? And whatdoes this have to do with WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL?
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 12/20/23 2:38 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| I think you are just trying to start something. Why don't we have a moderator here? And whatdoes this have to do with WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL? |
How long do you think its going to be until we have bio males on the court in a women's uniform 2 years, 4? That's why it matters. That and the opportunities that are being stolen from girls at the high school level losing out to these boys either for a position or having their season ended and their lives changed by the serious injuries they are receiving from boys on girls teams.
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Michael
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/20/23 3:06 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I think you are just trying to start something. Why don't we have a moderator here? And whatdoes this have to do with WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL? |
How long do you think its going to be until we have bio males on the court in a women's uniform 2 years, 4? That's why it matters. That and the opportunities that are being stolen from girls at the high school level losing out to these boys either for a position or having their season ended and their lives changed by the serious injuries they are receiving from boys on girls teams. |
TBH, the bigger issue for me with trans issues in sports - that for many reasons goes unspoken - is the female to male transition.
If the rule becomes “trans athletes play with the gender they transitioned to - then more than any gender, it will be trans men that lose the most opportunities.
Look, Paige Bueckers was playing against NBA players growing up. Yes, men have an athletic advantage, but it’s unlikely that we will see a male to female transition that truly puts female athletes at a disadvantage in basketball. It’s rare, and it would require both the skills and athleticism to beat the best women - which is unlikely to happen that frequently, if ever.
Meanwhile, the more common trans athlete is the female to male athlete. That athlete will lose opportunities because they just won’t be able to compete with the best men, or if they are able to, it’ll be significantly less opportunities and their body is more likely to break down.
IMO, it is these athletes that we need to think about when discussing where trans athletes should compete.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 12/20/23 3:16 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I think you are just trying to start something. Why don't we have a moderator here? And whatdoes this have to do with WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL? |
How long do you think its going to be until we have bio males on the court in a women's uniform 2 years, 4? That's why it matters. That and the opportunities that are being stolen from girls at the high school level losing out to these boys either for a position or having their season ended and their lives changed by the serious injuries they are receiving from boys on girls teams. |
TBH, the bigger issue for me with trans issues in sports - that for many reasons goes unspoken - is the female to male transition.
If the rule becomes “trans athletes play with the gender they transitioned to - then more than any gender, it will be trans men that lose the most opportunities.
Look, Paige Bueckers was playing against NBA players growing up. Yes, men have an athletic advantage, but it’s unlikely that we will see a male to female transition that truly puts female athletes at a disadvantage in basketball. It’s rare, and it would require both the skills and athleticism to beat the best women - which is unlikely to happen that frequently, if ever.
Meanwhile, the more common trans athlete is the female to male athlete. That athlete will lose opportunities because they just won’t be able to compete with the best men, or if they are able to, it’ll be significantly less opportunities and their body is more likely to break down.
IMO, it is these athletes that we need to think about when discussing where trans athletes should compete. |
A good high school men's team could beat pretty much any women's collegiate team. Any D2 men's player could be the best player in the WNBA. The differences between men and women are that great. The fastest time ever for a woman in the 100 meter dash places 1712+ on the men's side and is too slow to even qualify for the Olympics. Male practice players going against women's teams are told to play at about 80% so the women have a chance to execute their game plan. A trans woman playing in college women's ball is at this point inevitable, and he will likely be the best player in the game day one
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 12/20/23 5:13 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| I think you are just trying to start something. Why don't we have a moderator here? And whatdoes this have to do with WOMEN'S COLLEGE BASKETBALL? |
How long do you think its going to be until we have bio males on the court in a women's uniform 2 years, 4? That's why it matters. That and the opportunities that are being stolen from girls at the high school level losing out to these boys either for a position or having their season ended and their lives changed by the serious injuries they are receiving from boys on girls teams. |
TBH, the bigger issue for me with trans issues in sports - that for many reasons goes unspoken - is the female to male transition.
If the rule becomes “trans athletes play with the gender they transitioned to - then more than any gender, it will be trans men that lose the most opportunities.
Look, Paige Bueckers was playing against NBA players growing up. Yes, men have an athletic advantage, but it’s unlikely that we will see a male to female transition that truly puts female athletes at a disadvantage in basketball. It’s rare, and it would require both the skills and athleticism to beat the best women - which is unlikely to happen that frequently, if ever.
Meanwhile, the more common trans athlete is the female to male athlete. That athlete will lose opportunities because they just won’t be able to compete with the best men, or if they are able to, it’ll be significantly less opportunities and their body is more likely to break down.
IMO, it is these athletes that we need to think about when discussing where trans athletes should compete. |
A good high school men's team could beat pretty much any women's collegiate team. Any D2 men's player could be the best player in the WNBA. The differences between men and women are that great. The fastest time ever for a woman in the 100 meter dash places 1712+ on the men's side and is too slow to even qualify for the Olympics. Male practice players going against women's teams are told to play at about 80% so the women have a chance to execute their game plan. A trans woman playing in college women's ball is at this point inevitable, and he will likely be the best player in the game day one |
And I think you're a TROLL.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 12/20/23 5:24 pm ::: |
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| And I think you are a TROLL. Also, prove to me, with valid statistics, not something off of Faux Noise, that male to female is the most common form of transgender. I think it's just the most common form YOU fear!
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 12/20/23 5:30 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| And I think you are a TROLL. Also, prove to me, with valid statistics, not something off of Faux Noise, that male to female is the most common form of transgender. I think it's just the most common form YOU fear! |
Not sure who you are attacking here, but I think you once again lost track of who said what in your rush to show what a good SJW you are and trans ally that you missed most of the pertinent parts of this discussion.
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Michael
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 12/20/23 5:49 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| And I think you are a TROLL. Also, prove to me, with valid statistics, not something off of Faux Noise, that male to female is the most common form of transgender. I think it's just the most common form YOU fear! |
Not sure who you are attacking here, but I think you once again lost track of who said what in your rush to show what a good SJW you are and trans ally that you missed most of the pertinent parts of this discussion. |
FIRST of all, if you are not a troll, you would be using correct terminology. A person assigned male at birth who has transitioned to being female IS a female, not a male. Misgendering these people seriously undermines anything you say after that. It identifies you as a warrior AGAINST social justice. Second, a male who has transitioned to female is taking hormones that reduce their muscle mass and strength. This has been well documented and all male-to female people I know have experienced this.
If you're going to try starting up a controversy here, start with gathering facts and using correct nouns and pronouns when referring to trans women. Otherwise, you can crawl back under the rock you came from.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 12/20/23 6:15 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| And I think you are a TROLL. Also, prove to me, with valid statistics, not something off of Faux Noise, that male to female is the most common form of transgender. I think it's just the most common form YOU fear! |
Not sure who you are attacking here, but I think you once again lost track of who said what in your rush to show what a good SJW you are and trans ally that you missed most of the pertinent parts of this discussion. |
FIRST of all, if you are not a troll, you would be using correct terminology. A person assigned male at birth who has transitioned to being female IS a female, not a male. Misgendering these people seriously undermines anything you say after that. It identifies you as a warrior AGAINST social justice. Second, a male who has transitioned to female is taking hormones that reduce their muscle mass and strength. This has been well documented and all male-to female people I know have experienced this.
If you're going to try starting up a controversy here, start with gathering facts and using correct nouns and pronouns when referring to trans women. Otherwise, you can crawl back under the rock you came from. |
IF someone goes through puberty as male, they have all those genetic advantages permanently invested into their body. Taking hormone blockers makes them less powerful than an un-tranitioned male, but still vastly superior to a cis woman. Girls are getting permanently injured by trans-women who are physically far superior to cis women in their sports at the high school level. Hockey, Field hockey where a girl lost many teeth to a shot from a trans, rugby, volleyball where at least two girls have been hit so hard with the ball from a trans woman to the head that they are suffering from what are possibly lifelong damage all because liberals want to let "boys" beat up on girls to make them all feel better. And having a trans daughter doesn't blind me to how this completely undermines title 9 and is rapidly becoming a danger for cis women participating in team sports against bigger, stronger, and faster trans women.
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Michael
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CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: 12/20/23 6:33 pm ::: |
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| Go away troll.
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elsie
Joined: 08 Apr 2016
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| Posted: 12/21/23 3:20 am ::: |
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it is destroying girls and womens sports and it's a deal breaker for me.....bad enough that the nfl,nba.mens college sports are so money driven with some terrible characters but TBTB are determined to ruin sports for girls and women.....
my hope is that all competitive female athletes will enmasse walk out of tournaments in protest of having biological males with heavier bone mass and testosterone playing on female teams......
we will see just who supports womens sports and who doesn't.....we will find that the most outspoken liberal women will shrink away and not stand up for girls and women in sports.....
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 12/21/23 9:14 am ::: |
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Trans athletes need/deserve a place to play/compete. I'm not sure how this will look in the future, but I don't think that the default is that they should be playing competitively against/with cis females in high speed and contact sports. Many young girls will drop out of sports because of the disadvantage and that's not fair to them.
What is fair to everyone?? I don't know. I don't know that there is anyway to make it fair. There will be growing pains while we look for how to deal with this.
There's just a lot that we have to learn, accept as reality and figure out.
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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7373
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 12/21/23 1:53 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Trans athletes need/deserve a place to play/compete. I'm not sure how this will look in the future, but I don't think that the default is that they should be playing competitively against/with cis females in high speed and contact sports. Many young girls will drop out of sports because of the disadvantage and that's not fair to them.
What is fair to everyone?? I don't know. I don't know that there is anyway to make it fair. There will be growing pains while we look for how to deal with this.
There's just a lot that we have to learn, accept as reality and figure out. |
Thank you ex-Ref for a respectful criticism of trans women competing with cis women. This speaks to the importance of allowing children to transition early when they are clear about who they are. A pre-puberty transition to female leads to a trans female having similar musculature as cis female. While true that a post puberty trans female taking female hormones will lose muscle mass, they will still have more muscle mass than most cis females and will most certainly have higher average height.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/21/23 2:11 pm ::: |
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| Leaving aside the issue of whether a pre-pubescent child is capable of making a lifetime altering decision of that sort, I would be more concerned about those that don't transition but just identify as female. The trend seems to be to accept such claims at face value, which could be disastrous for women's sports.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 602
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| Posted: 12/21/23 2:27 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Trans athletes need/deserve a place to play/compete. I'm not sure how this will look in the future, but I don't think that the default is that they should be playing competitively against/with cis females in high speed and contact sports. Many young girls will drop out of sports because of the disadvantage and that's not fair to them.
What is fair to everyone?? I don't know. I don't know that there is anyway to make it fair. There will be growing pains while we look for how to deal with this.
There's just a lot that we have to learn, accept as reality and figure out. |
Thank you ex-Ref for a respectful criticism of trans women competing with cis women. This speaks to the importance of allowing children to transition early when they are clear about who they are. A pre-puberty transition to female leads to a trans female having similar musculature as cis female. While true that a post puberty trans female taking female hormones will lose muscle mass, they will still have more muscle mass than most cis females and will most certainly have higher average height. |
You have to be 17 to drive, 18 to vote, 21 to legally drink alcohol, but we are going to let per-pubesent kids make life altering decisions that have no reset ability to them..... That to me is a massive case of child abuse by the parents and sexual exploitation.
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Michael
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 2313
Location: Culver City, CA
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| Posted: 12/21/23 3:52 pm ::: |
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| elsie wrote: |
| it is destroying girls and womens sports... |
I think maybe you and I just watch different girls and womens sports. Somehow I've thusfar been able to enjoy this NCAA WBB season, for example, and have failed to notice how much it is supposedly being destroyed. I guess I just need to pay closer attention.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7373
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 12/21/23 6:27 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Trans athletes need/deserve a place to play/compete. I'm not sure how this will look in the future, but I don't think that the default is that they should be playing competitively against/with cis females in high speed and contact sports. Many young girls will drop out of sports because of the disadvantage and that's not fair to them.
What is fair to everyone?? I don't know. I don't know that there is anyway to make it fair. There will be growing pains while we look for how to deal with this.
There's just a lot that we have to learn, accept as reality and figure out. |
Thank you ex-Ref for a respectful criticism of trans women competing with cis women. This speaks to the importance of allowing children to transition early when they are clear about who they are. A pre-puberty transition to female leads to a trans female having similar musculature as cis female. While true that a post puberty trans female taking female hormones will lose muscle mass, they will still have more muscle mass than most cis females and will most certainly have higher average height. |
You have to be 17 to drive, 18 to vote, 21 to legally drink alcohol, but we are going to let per-pubesent kids make life altering decisions that have no reset ability to them..... That to me is a massive case of child abuse by the parents and sexual exploitation. |
When I was 8 and everyone was bullying me and telling me I was really a boy, (the boys AND girls pushed me into the boys' line routinely),I thought about it deeply and realized I was not a boy. I know that a significant number of trans people know they are trans at a very young age. The parents of children who KNOW they are trans also KNOW their child is trans (except for the clueless, in denial parents). This might be difficult for cis people to comprehend, but I know it's true. For myself, I knew I wasn't a boy and the only default back then was that I was a girl, when actually I'm non binary. Note that the answer I got from deep inside was NOT "I am a girl" but rather "I am not a boy." I have no doubt at all that if I'd known it was an option, I'd have been clear at age 8 that I was non binary. It's easy for me to see that some children know they are trans.
Those of you that doubt that a child can know they are trans are simply lacking in the experience of knowing something deeply at that age. Children can know they are gay, children can know they are trans, children can know they are nonbinary.
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Follow your passion and your life will be true down to your core.
~rAf
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 602
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| Posted: 12/21/23 9:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Trans athletes need/deserve a place to play/compete. I'm not sure how this will look in the future, but I don't think that the default is that they should be playing competitively against/with cis females in high speed and contact sports. Many young girls will drop out of sports because of the disadvantage and that's not fair to them.
What is fair to everyone?? I don't know. I don't know that there is anyway to make it fair. There will be growing pains while we look for how to deal with this.
There's just a lot that we have to learn, accept as reality and figure out. |
Thank you ex-Ref for a respectful criticism of trans women competing with cis women. This speaks to the importance of allowing children to transition early when they are clear about who they are. A pre-puberty transition to female leads to a trans female having similar musculature as cis female. While true that a post puberty trans female taking female hormones will lose muscle mass, they will still have more muscle mass than most cis females and will most certainly have higher average height. |
You have to be 17 to drive, 18 to vote, 21 to legally drink alcohol, but we are going to let per-pubesent kids make life altering decisions that have no reset ability to them..... That to me is a massive case of child abuse by the parents and sexual exploitation. |
When I was 8 and everyone was bullying me and telling me I was really a boy, (the boys AND girls pushed me into the boys' line routinely),I thought about it deeply and realized I was not a boy. I know that a significant number of trans people know they are trans at a very young age. The parents of children who KNOW they are trans also KNOW their child is trans (except for the clueless, in denial parents). This might be difficult for cis people to comprehend, but I know it's true. For myself, I knew I wasn't a boy and the only default back then was that I was a girl, when actually I'm non binary. Note that the answer I got from deep inside was NOT "I am a girl" but rather "I am not a boy." I have no doubt at all that if I'd known it was an option, I'd have been clear at age 8 that I was non binary. It's easy for me to see that some children know they are trans.
Those of you that doubt that a child can know they are trans are simply lacking in the experience of knowing something deeply at that age. Children can know they are gay, children can know they are trans, children can know they are nonbinary. |
There are literally whole neighborhoods in the ritzy parts of LA where almost every family has a trans child, its a badge of being "liberal enough".... Even by the most optimistic predictions, tans persons are 1 in 1000. Most of these trans kids are being pushed into it by parents desperate to prove they are part of the "in crowd" Caitlyn Jenner has gone on record that the recent uptick in all these people coming out as trans is mostly people chasing the hype and trying to find a way to be "special" and to escape the current message in liberal media that if you are white and male you are the source of all evil in the universe.
I am NOT saying that trans persons do not exist, but the current numbers are way out of balance with the probable reality.
As for trans damaging girls and women's sports, its not to the collegiate level YET, but there have been several cases of trans women being so much bigger and stronger seriously injuring cis girls on the opposing team. One single trans girl in rugby in Guam put three opposing girls out of one game with their excessively physical tackles. A single trans girl in NC in volleyball caused several schools to forfeit rather than play against them after they knocked an opposing girl out and ending her volleyball AND basketball seasons because of lingering problems from the concussion she received form the ball to the face. Girls are losing seasons, some are facing permanent injuries, and some are leaving the sports entirely to avoid injuries from playing against trans girls who are dominating their sports in a totally unfair manner UNLESS you think trans deserve to rule over cis girls to prove they are "special". Me personally I think its the biggest assault ever on title 9 and way beyond anything the right has ever tried.
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Michael
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patsweetpat
Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 2313
Location: Culver City, CA
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| Posted: 12/21/23 9:19 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
There are literally whole neighborhoods in the ritzy parts of LA where almost every family has a trans child. |
This is, literally, false. The very first sentence of your post is an objective falsehood. What are the specific neighborhoods in LA where "almost every family has a trans child"? Name said neighborhoods. You can't. Because they do not exist.
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wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 737
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: 12/22/23 8:45 am ::: |
Reply |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Michael wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Ex-Ref wrote: |
Trans athletes need/deserve a place to play/compete. I'm not sure how this will look in the future, but I don't think that the default is that they should be playing competitively against/with cis females in high speed and contact sports. Many young girls will drop out of sports because of the disadvantage and that's not fair to them.
What is fair to everyone?? I don't know. I don't know that there is anyway to make it fair. There will be growing pains while we look for how to deal with this.
There's just a lot that we have to learn, accept as reality and figure out. |
Thank you ex-Ref for a respectful criticism of trans women competing with cis women. This speaks to the importance of allowing children to transition early when they are clear about who they are. A pre-puberty transition to female leads to a trans female having similar musculature as cis female. While true that a post puberty trans female taking female hormones will lose muscle mass, they will still have more muscle mass than most cis females and will most certainly have higher average height. |
You have to be 17 to drive, 18 to vote, 21 to legally drink alcohol, but we are going to let per-pubesent kids make life altering decisions that have no reset ability to them..... That to me is a massive case of child abuse by the parents and sexual exploitation. |
When I was 8 and everyone was bullying me and telling me I was really a boy, (the boys AND girls pushed me into the boys' line routinely),I thought about it deeply and realized I was not a boy. I know that a significant number of trans people know they are trans at a very young age. The parents of children who KNOW they are trans also KNOW their child is trans (except for the clueless, in denial parents). This might be difficult for cis people to comprehend, but I know it's true. For myself, I knew I wasn't a boy and the only default back then was that I was a girl, when actually I'm non binary. Note that the answer I got from deep inside was NOT "I am a girl" but rather "I am not a boy." I have no doubt at all that if I'd known it was an option, I'd have been clear at age 8 that I was non binary. It's easy for me to see that some children know they are trans.
Those of you that doubt that a child can know they are trans are simply lacking in the experience of knowing something deeply at that age. Children can know they are gay, children can know they are trans, children can know they are nonbinary. |
Thank you raf for your personal story.
When a child tells you something isn't right with them, listen. This not only applies to their gender, but anything that they need help with..
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Be kind, be careful, be yourself
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