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| Who should win MVP? |
| Chelsea Gray |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Natasha Howard |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Kelsey Plum |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Satou Sabally |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| Breanna Stewart |
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37% |
[ 14 ] |
| Alyssa Thomas |
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40% |
[ 15 ] |
| A'ja Wilson |
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16% |
[ 6 ] |
| Jackie Young |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| someone else |
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5% |
[ 2 ] |
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| Total Votes : 37 |
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| Author |
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8949
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 Posted: 09/26/23 7:24 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| I hate how they play coy on ESPN knowing everyone knows that the 4th place vote to Aja came from M.A. idc I’m so tired of him/her controlling the narrative seriously. We all know why he gave that vote and it had nothing to do with Aja the player or the aces .Here comes the MA brigade 3…2…1. |
What's MAs issue with Aja?
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 09/26/23 7:37 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| johnjohnW wrote: |
| So this is a compromise on the Piloght v everyone else argument? Technically, his criteria was right and AT didn’t win MVP. However, she got the most #1 votes, so she was definitely a viable candidate. I think only the second time the most #1 votes to not win the award? |
She got her scoring up to 15.5 ppg, so she would have made the final poll anyway. |
A Festivus miracle!
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| I hate how they play coy on ESPN knowing everyone knows that the 4th place vote to Aja came from M.A. idc I’m so tired of him/her controlling the narrative seriously. We all know why he gave that vote and it had nothing to do with Aja the player or the aces .Here comes the MA brigade 3…2…1. |
Misgendering MA isn’t necessary to make your point.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3318
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| Posted: 09/26/23 8:41 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| I hate how they play coy on ESPN knowing everyone knows that the 4th place vote to Aja came from M.A. idc I’m so tired of him/her controlling the narrative seriously. We all know why he gave that vote and it had nothing to do with Aja the player or the aces .Here comes the MA brigade 3…2…1. |
Intentionally misgendering the writer on a pro-LGBTQ+ message board, and then preemptively positioning yourself as the victim of any backlash. Heady play.
Apropos of nothing, we do not, in fact, all know why.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 18031
Location: Queens
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| Posted: 09/26/23 10:30 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| I hate how they play coy on ESPN knowing everyone knows that the 4th place vote to Aja came from M.A. idc I’m so tired of him/her controlling the narrative seriously. We all know why he gave that vote and it had nothing to do with Aja the player or the aces .Here comes the MA brigade 3…2…1. |
I don't think Voepel voted Gray third, which pretty much has to be the oddball ballot that put Wilson fourth. I would like to introduce that person to the Mallet of Loving Correction, though, because goddamn that ballot is a special kind of dumb.
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 2815
Location: New York
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| Posted: 09/27/23 6:20 am ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| I hate how they play coy on ESPN knowing everyone knows that the 4th place vote to Aja came from M.A. idc I’m so tired of him/her controlling the narrative seriously. We all know why he gave that vote and it had nothing to do with Aja the player or the aces .Here comes the MA brigade 3…2…1. |
Every tweet Voepel writes is about Wilson. M.A. is Wilson's biggest cheerleader.
Here is my take. How is Stewie not MVP? Put the stats aside, when you watch the three players, she's just better, far more versatile, and is the only one who can be effective out of position.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8949
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| Posted: 09/27/23 8:24 am ::: |
Reply |
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| ucbart wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| I hate how they play coy on ESPN knowing everyone knows that the 4th place vote to Aja came from M.A. idc I’m so tired of him/her controlling the narrative seriously. We all know why he gave that vote and it had nothing to do with Aja the player or the aces .Here comes the MA brigade 3…2…1. |
Every tweet Voepel writes is about Wilson. M.A. is Wilson's biggest cheerleader.
Here is my take. How is Stewie not MVP? Put the stats aside, when you watch the three players, she's just better, far more versatile, and is the only one who can be effective out of position. |
OK, so BS goes for 40+ against Indiana, Phoenix, Indiana and Dallas. Only one made the playoffs.
AT has how many TD? Six? Seven? (I don't have time to look it all up right now.) One of the leaders in rebounds and assists. Top 20 or so in scoring. And doing all of this with two torn labrums and not taking a shot outside of the three-point line???
She's often playing a pointcenter position and you're trying to tell us that BS is far more versatile????
😒😒😒😒
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7373
Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 09/27/23 2:25 pm ::: |
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| Ex-Ref wrote: |
| ucbart wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| I hate how they play coy on ESPN knowing everyone knows that the 4th place vote to Aja came from M.A. idc I’m so tired of him/her controlling the narrative seriously. We all know why he gave that vote and it had nothing to do with Aja the player or the aces .Here comes the MA brigade 3…2…1. |
Every tweet Voepel writes is about Wilson. M.A. is Wilson's biggest cheerleader.
Here is my take. How is Stewie not MVP? Put the stats aside, when you watch the three players, she's just better, far more versatile, and is the only one who can be effective out of position. |
OK, so BS goes for 40+ against Indiana, Phoenix, Indiana and Dallas. Only one made the playoffs.
AT has how many TD? Six? Seven? (I don't have time to look it all up right now.) One of the leaders in rebounds and assists. Top 20 or so in scoring. And doing all of this with two torn labrums and not taking a shot outside of the three-point line???
She's often playing a pointcenter position and you're trying to tell us that BS is far more versatile????
😒😒😒😒 |
Alyssa LED the LEAGUE in rebounding and LED the LEAGUE in total # of ASSISTS. Vandersloot played one less regular season game - her assists/game was minutely higher than AT's but AT got more TOTAL ASSISTS than Slooty did. Nobody has ever led in both rebounding and assists which is pretty much the definition of versatility.
Until/unless the MVP voting is made public, we don't know who voted Aja 4th place and why they did that. Speculation that includes ambiguous rather than preferred pronouns is pure transphobic hate.
Though a majority voted Alyssa as most valuable, an equal number believed only Breanna/Aja or Aja/Breanna were viable votes. You either recognize the greatness and value of Alyssa or you don't. No middle ground.
And YES, Alyssa winning to most 1st place votes in both the RebKell and actual MVP votings shows that leaving her out of RebKell MVP voting options until very late in the season showed a flaw in the hard rules for including/excluding a player from that poll. There needs to be room for an extraordinary performance that narrowly misses one hard criteria in the future.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/27/23 2:34 pm ::: |
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This should have gone to AT.
Her game is not nearly as pretty or fluid as Stewart’s or Wilson’s, but she’s the only player not on a super team - which makes her job significantly harder. She has better stats and her team was third, behind the super teams..
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63781
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| Posted: 09/27/23 2:44 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
This should have gone to AT.
Her game is not nearly as pretty or fluid as Stewart’s or Wilson’s, but she’s the only player not on a super team - which makes her job significantly harder. She has better stats and her team was third, behind the super teams.. |
If you want to reward someone who is not on a super team, I guess Collier should have won.
The main reason they are super teams is because of the two super players that lead them. They’re not super teams without them.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66922
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| Posted: 09/27/23 3:05 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Though a majority voted Alyssa as most valuable, an equal number believed only Breanna/Aja or Aja/Breanna were viable votes. You either recognize the greatness and value of Alyssa or you don't. No middle ground. |
A plurality, not a majority.
I disagree that voting any of these players third equates to not considering them a viable choice. A reasonable case can be made for any combination of 1st-2nd-3rd among them.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/27/23 4:06 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
This should have gone to AT.
Her game is not nearly as pretty or fluid as Stewart’s or Wilson’s, but she’s the only player not on a super team - which makes her job significantly harder. She has better stats and her team was third, behind the super teams.. |
If you want to reward someone who is not on a super team, I guess Collier should have won.
The main reason they are super teams is because of the two super players that lead them. They’re not super teams without them. |
They are super teams because outside of the Center position for the Aces, and Small forward position for the Libs, there isn’t a player you could add to either teams starting lineup to make them better. They clearly have the best two point guards in the game (who are often more important than the stars too), and arguably the best two shooting guards (though Loyd could make an argument) and Young and Jones are all star quality players. The starting lineups are ridiculous.
And as much as I like Collier - why give her more credit than AT? The Sun was better and AT was better..
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 6878
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| Posted: 09/27/23 5:02 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| pilight wrote: |
| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| I hate how they play coy on ESPN knowing everyone knows that the 4th place vote to Aja came from M.A. idc I’m so tired of him/her controlling the narrative seriously. We all know why he gave that vote and it had nothing to do with Aja the player or the aces .Here comes the MA brigade 3…2…1. |
The W should make all the votes public |
Yes. And I'd bet 10% or more of the voters couldn't name 10 WNBA players off the top of their heads, excluding Wilson, Stewart. Thomas and Collier.
Media, money and power lies in NY, the most corrupt state in the Union along with NJ, Illinois and PA. Always has been with no changes in sight.
All close voting results are questionable...
It's silly to waste time arguing over them.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/27/23 5:06 pm ::: |
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| RavenDog wrote: |
| Media, money and power lies in NY, the most corrupt state in the Union along with NJ, Illinois and PA. Always has been with no changes in sight. |
You would have a very hard time making a case that MVP voting has been biased in favor of New York
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/27/23 5:18 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| They are super teams because outside of the Center position for the Aces, and Small forward position for the Libs, there isn’t a player you could add to either teams starting lineup to make them better. |
I've never before seen this used as the criteria for what makes a "super team" by anyone, ever. When did this become the standard?
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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mercfan3
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/27/23 7:35 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| They are super teams because outside of the Center position for the Aces, and Small forward position for the Libs, there isn’t a player you could add to either teams starting lineup to make them better. |
I've never before seen this used as the criteria for what makes a "super team" by anyone, ever. When did this become the standard? |
I’ve never seen two professional teams loaded in the way the Libs and Aces are. |
The Aces are arguably less loaded, relatively speaking, than the 2011 Oklahoma City Thunder, who built the core of their team through the draft, same as the Aces did. They're definitely less loaded than the 2016-2019 Golden State Warriors... I wouldn't even say they're as loaded as the 2016 Lynx, and that team lost in the Finals.
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ster II
Joined: 03 Jul 2013
Posts: 234
Location: Gotham City
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| Posted: 09/27/23 10:04 pm ::: |
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AT was the MVP hands down!! She had a Remarkable season!! Not sure what the voters were looking at!! A'ja and Stewie were fine, (don't wanna hear about A'ja did it without Parker), (boo hoo!).
Stewie & A'ja had legit Centers to back them up & free them up. AT didn't play on a Super Team". Who did AT have after Bri Jones went down? A young Nelson-Ododa who came into her own about half way through the season.
The award is not supposed to be a popularity contest.
Alyssa Thomas is a Unicorn. A swaggy, point-center-forward with skills that proved a huge problem for every team the Sun faced this season and to not recognize her excellent MVP season was a damn shame.
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Luuuc
#NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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| Posted: 09/27/23 11:26 pm ::: |
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Personally I didn't think there was anything "hands down" about this season's MVP race.
The final votes were remarkably close, which IMO is a very good reflection of how the season went. Any of the 3 could have deservedly taken home the trophy.
A part of me kinda wishes AT could have won it, because her all-round game deserves some love seeing as a guard is apparently never going to win this thing again, but I can't be mad at Stewie getting it. She was awesome. And sure she was on a "super team", but note that it wasn't a "super team" until she arrived to make it one. A player probably shouldn't be disqualified from a contest of individual greatness just because their individual greatness makes their team very good.
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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| Posted: 09/28/23 8:13 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| RavenDog wrote: |
| Media, money and power lies in NY, the most corrupt state in the Union along with NJ, Illinois and PA. Always has been with no changes in sight. |
You would have a very hard time making a case that MVP voting has been
biased in favor of New York |
Especially to a naive jury...
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 09/28/23 12:01 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
I’ve never seen two professional teams loaded in the way the Libs and Aces are. |
What about those Titans of Tanking, the 2014 Phoenix Mercury? If you can’t remember your own team, it was Griner, Dupree, Bonner, Taylor, and lesser-known Taurasi. They were all pretty good back then. I guess you could even say they were “super”.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/28/23 2:37 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
I’ve never seen two professional teams loaded in the way the Libs and Aces are. |
What about those Titans of Tanking, the 2014 Phoenix Mercury? If you can’t remember your own team, it was Griner, Dupree, Bonner, Taylor, and lesser-known Taurasi. They were all pretty good back then. I guess you could even say they were “super”. |
Taurasi was arguably the best player in the league, and Brit was a young all star. And obviously the other three are excellent players.
But we are talking 3 of the 5 positions positions being best in the league, for both teams.
The only player in the league that I am confident in saying is better than both the Libs and Aces player at their position is Brit (who is better than Jones and Vaughn), unless we counted Thomas as a wing.
I did forget the Lynx, but even then..like..yea you had Fowles, but Griner existed. Yea you had Whalen, but Bird, gray and Sloot existed. Yes you had Maya and Seimone..but plenty of other wings were in the same league.
Perhaps with having two loaded teams, it feels like the league is more depleted with both of them having so much talent.
But are we really arguing that these teams aren’t ridiculously loaded? (And btw - I think it could be a very good thing for the league to have two super teams. They clearly sell well..I’m just saying they clearly exist, and their existence makes what AT did more impressive to me than what A’ja or Breanna did.)
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/28/23 2:47 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
Taurasi was arguably the best player in the league, and Brit was a young all star. And obviously the other three are excellent players. |
They started five Hall of Famers. Neither of this year's "super teams" will be able to claim that. Kia Stokes started most of the year for the Aces. As much as we like Betnijah Laney, she ain't headed to the Hall.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/28/23 3:06 pm ::: |
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| Luuuc wrote: |
| A part of me kinda wishes AT could have won it, because her all-round game deserves some love seeing as a guard is apparently never going to win this thing again, but I can't be mad at Stewie getting it. She was awesome. And sure she was on a "super team", but note that it wasn't a "super team" until she arrived to make it one. A player probably shouldn't be disqualified from a contest of individual greatness just because their individual greatness makes their team very good. |
Well, you may call this splitting hairs, but there's more to it than that: the Liberty became a 'super team' because Stewart and the other two went there. It took more than just her: a core of Ionescu-Stewart-Laney isn't any more "super" than Dallas is, probably less super than Connecticut is.
New York became a "super team" because they acquired three All-League players in one offseason; it's a little reductive, IMO, to say that they became a "super team" because Stewart made them one. Was Seattle a "super team"?
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/28/23 3:18 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| But are we really arguing that these teams aren’t ridiculously loaded? (And btw - I think it could be a very good thing for the league to have two super teams. They clearly sell well..I’m just saying they clearly exist, and their existence makes what AT did more impressive to me than what A’ja or Breanna did.) |
I don't think that anyone is saying that these teams are not loaded. And I'll only speak for myself here, but what I am specifically saying is that:- That doesn't make them particularly unique, and
- I reject your criteria for "super team." Hell, I'm not even convinced that either of these teams qualify under your own definition ("outside of the Center position for the Aces, and Small forward position for the Libs, there isn’t a player you could add to either teams starting lineup to make them better.") of the term.
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Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
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