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Admiral_Needa
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Bob Lamm
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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 Posted: 02/17/23 5:36 pm ::: |
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| We’ve still got a roster crunch in the frontcourt, though. Are we really going to play Breanna Stewart at the three? Or are we really going to pay Stefanie Dolson a large amount of money to come off the bench?
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 02/17/23 8:35 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| We’ve still got a roster crunch in the frontcourt, though. Are we really going to play Breanna Stewart at the three? Or are we really going to pay Stefanie Dolson a large amount of money to come off the bench? |
Eminently reasonable questions. My guesses: we ARE going to have a roster crunch in the frontcourt. Breanna Stewart mostly won't play at the three. Stefanie Dolson WILL be paid a large amount of money to come off the bench--and for fewer minutes than last season.
Looks to me like (if he can make the $$$ numbers work) Kolb intends to go with the roster as it currently looks, with Johannes added and with Willoughby or Kone as player #11. Remember: we've got a bunch of players with one-year contracts. I believe Kolb is going for it all this season this way. For 2024, who knows?
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undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
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| Posted: 02/17/23 8:58 pm ::: |
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| I have to roll my eyes a bit at NY over these past few seasons emphasizing how invested they are in their young talent and wanted to build off them moving forward. Now they go out and sign multiple of the best vets in the league and most of the youth is gonna get cut. When JJ and company want to play for you everything else becomes secondary.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 02/17/23 9:00 pm ::: |
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| on the other hand, if multiple former MVPs want to play for you...
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Stormeo
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 02/17/23 9:57 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| it really is about time the greater New York City area has had a best-in-the-country basketball team |
It's been half a century since they could claim that
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 02/18/23 12:09 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| it really is about time the greater New York City area has had a best-in-the-country basketball team |
It's been half a century since they could claim that |
You are talking about the Knicks, right? Frazier and Earl "The Pearl" Monroe.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 02/18/23 12:19 am ::: |
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| undersized_post wrote: |
| I have to roll my eyes a bit at NY over these past few seasons emphasizing how invested they are in their young talent and wanted to build off them moving forward. Now they go out and sign multiple of the best vets in the league and most of the youth is gonna get cut. When JJ and company want to play for you everything else becomes secondary. |
I have to "roll my eyes" at your comment. Should Clara Wu Tsai, Joe Tsai, Jonathan Kolb, and Sandy Brondello have agreed: hell, no, our roster is so filled with great young talent that we just don't have room for Jones, Stewart, and Vandersloot. Seriously? LOL.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 02/18/23 12:22 am ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| it really is about time the greater New York City area has had a best-in-the-country basketball team |
It's been half a century since they could claim that |
You are talking about the Knicks, right? Frazier and Earl "The Pearl" Monroe. |
Plus (for 1972-1973) Willis Reed, Dave Debusschere, Bill Bradley, Jerry Lucas, Dick Barnett, and others, with Red Holzman as coach. They were a joy to watch.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 02/18/23 12:33 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Rock Hard wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| it really is about time the greater New York City area has had a best-in-the-country basketball team |
It's been half a century since they could claim that |
You are talking about the Knicks, right? Frazier and Earl "The Pearl" Monroe. |
Plus (for 1972-1973) Willis Reed, Dave Debusschere, Bill Bradley, Jerry Lucas, Dick Barnett, and others, with Red Holzman as coach. They were a joy to watch. |
Dick Barnett with the step back free throw.👍🏿
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 02/18/23 12:36 am ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| Dick Barnett with the step back free throw.👍🏿 |
I love Dick Barnett. He was really crucial in the 1968-1969 championship year. Unfortunately for him, the trade that brought Earl Monroe to New York greatly limited Barnett's role on the Knicks. Earl the Pearl is probably my favorite basketball player ever, but I also cherish Dick Barnett.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 02/18/23 2:45 am ::: |
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| undersized_post wrote: |
| I have to roll my eyes a bit at NY over these past few seasons emphasizing how invested they are in their young talent and wanted to build off them moving forward. Now they go out and sign multiple of the best vets in the league and most of the youth is gonna get cut. When JJ and company want to play for you everything else becomes secondary. |
it’s a valid criticism (and it didn’t
7 drafted or acquired rookies on the 2020 roster, 2 rookies on the 2021 roster, so 9 total in those two years of their youth movement need eyes being
3 of those 9 remain – 2 of whom are not cemented rotation players for one reason or another (the other 1 being the #1 where it all began rolled back
the team’s seemingly long-term project of youth development was an abject failure onto it lmfao
that said, what they’ve done in free agency in 2021, 2022, and this year was a masterclass overall, and i think has more than made up for the said youth-movement failure – even as we have yet to see the total culmination of the past three free agencies in the form of this year’s team some stay
i kinda think somewhere along the way, Kolb & co. realized aloud, possibly in a classic NY accent, “aye wait a minute, dis is New Yawk, we can fuckin' get anyone to come hee-yuh!” and basically to hell with raising the Liberty Kids pressed though
(and needless to say, being in New York City again ever since the wubble season and the W*stch*st*r tenure before it surely helped free agency be the masterclass it’s been) as we know)
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City
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| Posted: 02/18/23 5:19 am ::: |
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New York had seven rookies in the 2020 wubble season. Only ONE of them was a high draft choice: Sabrina Ionescu. The others: Megan Walker, Jocelyn Willoughby, Jaz Jones, Leaonna Odom, Kylie Shook, and Joyner Holmes. Of course Jonathan Kolb and Walt Hopkins spoke glowingly about everyone. What were they supposed to say? So far none of the six have done much for the Liberty or for other teams.
The Liberty tried to develop their six non-Sabrina rookies. Mainly it was a failure. But LOTS of players who are low first-round picks or second-round picks don't become valuable WNBA starters or rotation players. Is this big news?
Were Kolb and the Liberty hypocritical to enthusiastically praise those rookies in 2020 and then THREE YEARS LATER get Jones, Stewart, and Vandersloot when they had the chance? That's a joke.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 02/18/23 6:03 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
New York had seven rookies in the 2020 wubble season. Only ONE of them was a high draft choice: Sabrina Ionescu. The others: Megan Walker, Jocelyn Willoughby, Jaz Jones, Leaonna Odom, Kylie Shook, and Joyner Holmes. Of course Jonathan Kolb and Walt Hopkins spoke glowingly about everyone. What were they supposed to say? So far none of the six have done much for the Liberty or for other teams.
The Liberty tried to develop their six non-Sabrina rookies. Mainly it was a failure. But LOTS of players who are low first-round picks or second-round picks don't become valuable WNBA starters or rotation players. Is this big news?
Were Kolb and the Liberty hypocritical to enthusiastically praise those rookies in 2020 and then THREE YEARS LATER get Jones, Stewart, and Vandersloot when they had the chance? That's a joke. |
I think there are a lot of factors, and yes maybe those players didn't work out and they will never work out in terms of becoming key WNBA players, but had the coaching staff stayed the same and continue on their path it could be different after 3-4 years of working together, but with a new coaching staff it's hard to say this group of players absolutely didn't work they were a complete failure, etc., because a new coach was brought in they don't fit in with what the new coach wants. You see it all the time players play great for one coach in one system then they go to a new team and all they look like they shouldn't be in the league and can't make an impact in the rotation. This is not to make a judgement on those players, but for one coach to be high on those players doesn't mean the next coach will be high on those players.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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Location: London
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| Posted: 02/19/23 10:30 am ::: |
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| Han signed her qualifying offer, which becomes a 'training camp contract'. It just means one year, minimum, unprotected (i.e. nonguaranteed). After all the other stuff, it was basically all they had room left to give her. Johannes, if and when she signs, will likely also be a 'training camp contract'. |
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 02/20/23 6:08 pm ::: |
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https://www.tmz.com/2023/02/20/sabrina-ionescu-rookie-card-sets-wnba-record-auction-most-expensive-ever/
Front page TMZ....
| Quote: |
LIBERTY STAR SABRINA IONESCU
Rookie Card Sells At Auction
MOST EXPENSIVE WNBA CARD EVER!!! |
| Quote: |
TMZ Sports has learned Ionescu's 2020 Panini Prizm WNBA Black Gold rookie card made history on Sunday night when it sold for $10,800.
Reps for PWCC, which brokered the sale, tell us it's the first time a WNBA card has netted five figures on the block.
As for why it was so coveted ... it's one of the rarest Ionescu pieces ever made -- with only five copies in existence. |
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 02/21/23 12:05 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| Han signed her qualifying offer, which becomes a 'training camp contract'. It just means one year, minimum, unprotected (i.e. nonguaranteed). After all the other stuff, it was basically all they had room left to give her. Johannes, if and when she signs, will likely also be a 'training camp contract'. |
Is there a salary cap difference between a "Regular Contract" versus a training camp contract? Could they have given her a regular contract instead of a "qualifying offer"?
I forgot that the Liberty have added a few former MVP post players in the off-season and was thinking about them being iffy on Xu based on their 2022 roster.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 02/21/23 12:21 am ::: |
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If it's one year, unguaranteed, at the minimum, then it is by definition a 'training camp contract'. The fact that it's called that doesn't really mean anything outside of cap math. They could've given her fractionally more, but not much given the space they have to fit the last two or three players into.
A qualifying offer is what you give players initially to make them reserved, restricted or cored, as applicable. Otherwise the player becomes an unrestricted free agent. But it's also a contract offer in and of itself. |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 02/21/23 8:48 am ::: |
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| You know what’s more ridiculous than giving Han a training camp contract? Giving Dantas (starting center?) or Shey Peddy (starting PG?) training camp contracts.
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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| Posted: 03/02/23 5:35 pm ::: |
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| There will be a tight squeeze on the Liberty bench because New York signed Sabally last week. Very interesting.🧐
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 03/02/23 7:18 pm ::: |
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| Rock Hard wrote: |
| There will be a tight squeeze on the Liberty bench because New York signed Sabally last week. Very interesting.🧐 |
And now the Liberty have announced that Marine Johannes has accepted her qualifying offer and re-signed with New York.
14 players and likely only 11 roster spots:
Stewart, Laney, Jones, Ionescu, Vandersloot
Thornton, Willoughby, Kone
Dolson, Han, Sabally
Johannes, Richards, Prince
What's ahead will be very intriguing. Even once we know who the final 11 will be (some speculation that Johannes may not join the roster till midseason), have to wonder how Sandy Brondello will use those 11 in terms of positions on the court and playing time. But it seems to me like a pretty wonderful problem!
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 03/02/23 8:24 pm ::: |
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My solution and it works for both teams imo
Willoughby and Sabally to Seattle for their second round picks in 24 and 25 it could even be pick swaps if Seattle prefers
Seattle get to give two players with potential a real shot to develop as future pieces can still play for the lottery in stacked 24 and 25
Willoughby and Sabally get real opportunity to show their stuff instead of being trapped deep on the bench
Ny gets some high second round picks in deep drafts to support their bench on cheap contracts when they will need every penny to retain their big money free agents the next few seasons
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