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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 01/16/23 1:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Dolson ought to be traded – too expensive to make it worth her just backing up JJ, cuz they're too bulky to be played together

also, Han Xu and Nyara Sabally... at least as of right now
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 01/16/23 2:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Stormeo wrote:
Dolson ought to be traded – too expensive to make it worth her just backing up JJ, cuz they're too bulky to be played together

also, Han Xu and Nyara Sabally... at least as of right now


What team would trade for Dolson? There are some good things about her game, but she'll be about 31 1/2 this season, she has a high salary, and has some serious limitations as a player. She can be helpful for 15-20 minutes off the bench, but I just don't see anyone trading for her and using her as a starter for 25-30 minutes.



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 01/16/23 7:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
johnjohnW wrote:
Eh. I'm not amped about this. I've always thought JJ is oberhyped in this league. Free agency is off to an exciting start.


I'm with you John, Im not too excited about it to be honest. But if we can still get Stewart then I'm fine with it.

Getting rid of Dangerfield was Sabrina's security blanket. Now we need a PG to fill that spot and we don't have 1st or 2nd round picks unless there's a miracle someone like Ana Llanusa falls into our lap 3rd round lol we probably gotta look into the free agency
snlMINAJ



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 01/16/23 8:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Bob Lamm wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Dolson ought to be traded – too expensive to make it worth her just backing up JJ, cuz they're too bulky to be played together

also, Han Xu and Nyara Sabally... at least as of right now


What team would trade for Dolson? There are some good things about her game, but she'll be about 31 1/2 this season, she has a high salary, and has some serious limitations as a player. She can be helpful for 15-20 minutes off the bench, but I just don't see anyone trading for her and using her as a starter for 25-30 minutes.


i think i would like dolson on Lynx
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 01/16/23 10:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
snlMINAJ wrote:
i think i would like dolson on Lynx


For 25-30 minutes as a starter? Or for 15-20 minutes off the bench?



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 01/16/23 12:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Dolson might be backup-level at heart, but I honestly do think you can talk someone like her up in a trade. She started all 36 games last season, she's been pretty durable throughout her career, and very consistent considering her career numbers across the board (incl. last year). Yes, she has her downsides – not fast, not much of a defensive presence – but most non-star players have downsides. She's also got playing a premium position going for her. And honestly, her salary isn't the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen – considering her consistent production and her offensive skills (not many stretch-5s in the league), I don't think she's overpaid by that much.

Minnesota, Atlanta, Washington, Vegas, and maybe Seattle could use some center depth at this point. (Connecticut may also need some if they can't get Brionna Jones to re-sign.) I really think New York would be able to get something for her if they truly wanted to give her up. She’s absolutely no salary-dump candidate yet, especially since she only has a year left on her contract.
WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 01/16/23 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
WNBA 09 wrote:
DTP wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
DTP wrote:
Iluvacc wrote:
Where's Queenie? It's not everyday a MVP candidate falls in your lap, because make no mistake the Sun got robbed Exclamation Giving up a player of JJ's caliber and the best you can get is a #6 draft pick Shocked

How is the math mathing? Do the Liberty have enough for JJ and potentially Stewart?

Howard is a good pickup for Dallas, I think she and McCowan can work well together in the post. If they can hold onto A. Gray I think the Wings can do some damage.

As for the Sun, ayiyi! I hope this not a harbinger of the Taylor/White era.




Looks to me that this deal clears more money, so Stewie should still be a possibility. I understand Connecticut not having much leverage with JJ's trade request but you'd think they would've been able to get Gray in this deal, who would fit well there. Or at least get out of Jas Thomas' deal and be able to comfortable bring Jones, Williams, and Hiedeman back.


Biggest obstacle was that Dallas did not want Thomas nor Heideman. Gray to Conn would and could only happen once their UFA’s and RFA’s made their decision as this was not on her top half of destination places. It was a championship place fitter and with JJ gone I doubt it’s as desirable for her.


In that case, I wait for a better deal to come along if I'm CT. I get it....easier said than done, but I just don't see much value in this deal at all. Allen's deal just adds to their salary cap mess and you can find Ty's production at a cheaper price most likely.

The only real benefit of doing this deal now for them is being able to re-sign Jones quickly.


Bingo …with expectation that no
Other players pull a JJ which is very realistic right now for the sun. I can think of two but not being 100% I’d rather wait and see like everyone else around the league rn players included .


Jas Thomas was one btw surprised the trade happened so fast. The 2nd player is not Heideman btw but I think she jumps ship now as well.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 01/16/23 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
snlMINAJ wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
Dolson ought to be traded – too expensive to make it worth her just backing up JJ, cuz they're too bulky to be played together

also, Han Xu and Nyara Sabally... at least as of right now


What team would trade for Dolson? There are some good things about her game, but she'll be about 31 1/2 this season, she has a high salary, and has some serious limitations as a player. She can be helpful for 15-20 minutes off the bench, but I just don't see anyone trading for her and using her as a starter for 25-30 minutes.


i think i would like dolson on Lynx


Seems fitting they normally overpay underwhelming post performer's not named big Syl .



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Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 01/16/23 1:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Queenie wrote:
readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
As a Liberty fan, I'm thrilled that Jonquel Jones is coming to New York whether or not Kristen Stewart follows. But of course getting both of them would be spectacular.


I'm excited and intrigued! i hope Kristen Stewart feels the same way. Smile


Sorry, I'm not hip to why you refer to Stewart as "Kristen."


I think it's a running joke at this point...


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Things like that is why I can never quit this board.
Richyyy



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PostPosted: 01/16/23 1:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
I can imagine teams trading for Dolson eventually, but I'd be surprised if anyone did it until after most of the big free agent pieces are done and they know what their cap situation looks like. But then, someone traded something for 155,000 dollars of Danielle Robinson a couple of days ago, so who knows.



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DTP



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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PostPosted: 01/16/23 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Richyyy wrote:
I can imagine teams trading for Dolson eventually, but I'd be surprised if anyone did it until after most of the big free agent pieces are done and they know what their cap situation looks like. But then, someone traded something for 155,000 dollars of Danielle Robinson a couple of days ago, so who knows.


I think I'm in the minority but I'm also not a fan of trading for $190 of Jasmine Thomas. Dolson can definitely be unloaded - Minnesota & Seattle (If Stewie leaves) are obvious options to me.
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
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PostPosted: 01/16/23 9:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
I was a bit stunned today when I read that Rebecca Allen had played for New York for SEVEN seasons! She arrived in 2015, when she was hurt in game #2 and out for the rest of the year. She was on the team from 2016-2019, then didn't come for the 2020 Wubble season. Allen then returned to the Liberty for 2021 and 2022. So she played for four Liberty head coaches: Bill Laimbeer, Katie Smith, Walt Hopkins, and Sandy Brondello.

Before the trade, Allen was the only remaining Liberty player who'd played for Bill Laimbeer. The only players now left who played for Katie Smith--if they return for 2023--will be Marine Johannes and Han Xu. Each played for Smith in 2019.



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Last edited by Bob Lamm on 01/18/23 1:35 am; edited 1 time in total
Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 01/18/23 1:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Stormeo wrote:
New York turned a Natasha Howard package into Jonquel Jones, which could end up being a marginal difference on the court – but, the Liberty importantly gained cap space (ditching Bec Allen’s salary was an underrated aspect in all this), which is its own win


should be mentioned that this is Ionescu's last year on her rookie deal, so it makes total & complete sense to bet the house this year so as to take advantage of her cheapness, as well as to take advantage of Prioritization being in its 'honeymoon' era of sorts where it's not as aggressive this year as it'll get in future seasons

that said, two more years of Howard has now converted into this one year for JJ, who may peace out of the league [like other stars] thereafter, so the team's cap outlook for 2024 is lookin'... real clean these days
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 01/18/23 2:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
so with all the rumors could this be the team?

Sloot/Johannes
Ionescu/Willoughby
Laney/Thorton
Stewart/Sabally or Kone
Jones/Han Xu/Dolson

(Seems almost impossible financially but who knows?)
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 01/18/23 2:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
https://www.9news.com/article/sports/locked-on/lo-national/locked-on-womens-basketball/the-new-york-liberty-are-a-new-wnba-powerhouse-after-trading-for-2021-mvp-jonquel-jones-breanna-stewart-courtney-vandersloot-wnba-news/535-59756a0b-e273-49ef-bcd2-2221a79b9631

Just listened to this 28-minute discussion of the Liberty by Howard Megdal and Jackie Powell. This was taped after the Jonquel Jones trade was official. Quite fascinating to hear this show. Here are my notes:

Megdal said New York "expects" Marine Johannes and Han Xu to be on the team this season.

They think that even if she's healthy Nyara Sabally's contract will prove impossible to fit into the Liberty roster budget for 2023. They suggested that one of these three international players might be on the team: Sika Kone, Raquela Cabrera, or Marine Fauthoux.

Megdal spoke glowingly of Kayla Thornton. Powell said that in negotiations about the trade New York tried hard to keep Rebecca Allen. They agreed that New York wanted someone who can provide some of what Allen did, that in no way was Thornton a "throw-in" in this trade. Powell spoke much more enthusiastically about Allen than Megdal, who cited statistics about Allen's shooting not being nearly as great as some claim. Powell said that Brondello wants a kind of defensive toughness that Laney has and that Thornton has.

Regarding the issue of whether Sabrina Ionescu should or shouldn't play #1, Powell said that New York doesn't want a true #1, that the WNBA is moving away from that approach. (Noting Las Vegas winning the 2022 title with Chelsea Gray and Kelsey Plum in the backcourt.)

It was said that Marine Johannes will be arriving late but not as late as last season. She will, however, have to miss perhaps 10 days midseason, depending on how far her French team goes.

Right near the end, Megdal began speaking about the possibility of the Liberty having Stewart, Jones, Ionescu, and Courtney Vandersloot for 2023. Jackie Powell looked shocked; her eyes widened! Megdal reported that New York has definitely been looking into signing Vandersloot; Powell obviously hadn't heard that news till that moment.



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snlMINAJ



Joined: 21 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 01/18/23 6:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Bob Lamm wrote:
snlMINAJ wrote:
i think i would like dolson on Lynx


For 25-30 minutes as a starter? Or for 15-20 minutes off the bench?


25-30mpg, starter or reserve... she seems like the kind of big who would work well with Phee, and she's been pretty durable throughout her career. id rather have Dolson than a rookie center/post who has not proven anything yet
Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 01/18/23 8:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Looking at New York's cap space I don't see how they can afford both Sloot and Stewart. In addition to having enough money to fill out their roster to have at least eleven players.🧐



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 01/18/23 8:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Rock Hard wrote:
Looking at New York's cap space I don't see how they can afford both Sloot and Stewart. In addition to having enough money to fill out their roster to have at least eleven players.🧐


Easy Sloot is going to take crumbs like other players have done in the past to win a title .

Stewie will get the max .



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WfanFrJmp



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PostPosted: 01/18/23 9:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Bob Lamm wrote:
https://www.9news.com/article/sports/locked-on/lo-national/locked-on-womens-basketball/the-new-york-liberty-are-a-new-wnba-powerhouse-after-trading-for-2021-mvp-jonquel-jones-breanna-stewart-courtney-vandersloot-wnba-news/535-59756a0b-e273-49ef-bcd2-2221a79b9631

Just listened to this 28-minute discussion of the Liberty by Howard Megdal and Jackie Powell. This was taped after the Jonquel Jones trade was official. Quite fascinating to hear this show. Here are my notes:

Megdal said New York "expects" Marine Johannes and Han Xu to be on the team this season.

They think that even if she's healthy Nyara Sabally's contract will prove impossible to fit into the Liberty roster budget for 2023. They suggested that one of these three international players might be on the team: Sika Kone, Raquela Cabrera, or Marine Fauthoux.

Megdal spoke glowingly of Kayla Thornton. Powell said that in negotiations about the trade New York tried hard to keep Rebecca Allen. They agreed that New York wanted someone who can provide some of what Allen did, that in no way was Thornton a "throw-in" in this trade. Powell spoke much more enthusiastically about Allen than Megdal, who cited statistics about Allen's shooting not being nearly as great as some claim. Powell said that Brondello wants a kind of defensive toughness that Laney has and that Thornton has.

Regarding the issue of whether Sabrina Ionescu should or shouldn't play #1, Powell said that New York doesn't want a true #1, that the WNBA is moving away from that approach. (Noting Las Vegas winning the 2022 title with Chelsea Gray and Kelsey Plum in the backcourt.)

It was said that Marine Johannes will be arriving late but not as late as last season. She will, however, have to miss perhaps 10 days midseason, depending on how far her French team goes.

Right near the end, Megdal began speaking about the possibility of the Liberty having Stewart, Jones, Ionescu, and Courtney Vandersloot for 2023. Jackie Powell looked shocked; her eyes widened! Megdal reported that New York has definitely been looking into signing Vandersloot; Powell obviously hadn't heard that news till that moment.


New York is definitely going to be formidable and it will be interesting to see what else they do.

I hadn't watched the interview yet, so I truly appreciate the breakdown! If I'm I understanding this correctly, the "mutual interest" between NY and Sloot noted in the twitter post from Howard, is actually a one-sided interest (as far as is known) from NY? AAANDDD NY actually does not want a traditional PG? Of which, Sloot is basically the traditional PG prototype Confused If this is indeed correct, I think I'll ignore the Sloot to NY hysteria, because it sounds like that is what is it is. On the Seattle front (Nooo! Laughing), I know Sloot and Stewie are now on the same team in Turkey (not sure if Sloot is there just yet), but Emma is also there. Btw, their next Euroleague game is at 10:30AM Eastern: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WglFNZxvfok&ab_channel=EuroLeagueWomen. We shall see!
Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 01/18/23 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
WNBA 09 wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
Looking at New York's cap space I don't see how they can afford both Sloot and Stewart. In addition to having enough money to fill out their roster to have at least eleven players.🧐


Easy Sloot is going to take crumbs like other players have done in the past to win a title .

Stewie will get the max .

The only way Sloot and Stewart will play together this season in the W will be with a team that can afford to pay both of them their market value.💵💰💵



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 01/18/23 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
After reading Bob’s recap which was very interesting

Todays new roster prediction

Ionesco/Johannes
Laney/Richards
Thornton/Willoughby
Jones/Kone /Onyenwere
Dolson/Han Xu

Let Stewie and Sloot team up in Seattle
Still try to bring in L. Allen or let Johannes have someone to gossip with in French with Fathoux if we can afford a 12th player
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 01/18/23 2:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
J-Spoon wrote:
After reading Bob’s recap which was very interesting

Todays new roster prediction

Ionesco/Johannes
Laney/Richards
Thornton/Willoughby
Jones/Kone /Onyenwere
Dolson/Han Xu

Let Stewie and Sloot team up in Seattle
Still try to bring in L. Allen or let Johannes have someone to gossip with in French with Fathoux if we can afford a 12th player


I suspect the subtext here is that you don't want to see Richards or Willoughby or Onyenwere gone. Smile

As noted earlier, i am hoping, hoping that Breanna Stewart (I've got her name right this time!) comes to New York. I'm neutral about Vandersloot. Definitely a great player, but I'm unsure about various ramifications of her joining the team.



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PostPosted: 01/18/23 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
You caught me

Also thought the not going to be able to afford N. Sabally comment was weird when we will likely have others of similar price range on the rosters seems like a hint they don’t really want Sabally anymore and probably will be signing one more big contract probably Stewart in which case I will come around to embracing the super team
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: 01/18/23 6:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
J-Spoon wrote:
You caught me


I like your attachment to the players who are on our team!!! Smile



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PostPosted: 01/21/23 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Of tangential relevance:

Sabrina and Hroniss Grasu announce their engagement. May we be blessed with very athletic kids. Cool (in a decade or so)



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