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WNBA expansion could add 2 teams before 2024
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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/28/22 8:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tulsa is not the south



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 09/28/22 8:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Tulsa is not the south


I lumped Tulsa in with my disparaging comments about Texas.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/28/22 8:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
pilight wrote:
Tulsa is not the south


I lumped Tulsa in with my disparaging comments about Texas.


Tulsa is also not in Texas



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 09/28/22 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
pilight wrote:
Tulsa is not the south


I lumped Tulsa in with my disparaging comments about Texas.


Tulsa is also not in Texas


I know that. Hence the phrase "lumped in" - as in, not in Texas but lumped in with it.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12494
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 09/29/22 10:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

DFWub2018 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
PRballer wrote:
I have a feeling it’s going to be Toronto and Bay Area (Oakland) for 2024.

But with the right ownership and investment, Portland could be a fantastic market for the W. I also wouldn’t mind hearing legit whispers to bring back the Comets Very Happy


I'm lukewarm on the return of Portland. I'd love to see it be successful but it does not excite me. I really do think we get 4 over the next few years. Bay Area and Toronto both seem to have interest from prospective ownership groups. I'd love to see Philly and Portland be next.

As much as I'd love to see the Comets return, I'm not convinced Texas or Southern teams have the potential to do well.



Well alrighty then LOL Twisted Evil Razz


That's what my first thought was too but then I decided to not even waste my time responding to it, SMDH!!!


+1 Wink



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WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: 09/29/22 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
Go figure you both post. Alt accounts are so exhausting.

How many folded/relocated teams do we have from the south and Texas? Charlotte folded, Houston was unable to survive w/o the Rockets backing, Tulsa was a failed expirement of a location, SAS left town, Atlanta plays in the smallest arena in the league and Dallas plays in a college dorm room.

Sorry about it.


Your entitled to your opinion , but this part confuses me a bit . Are you saying that Myself and DFWDubz are the same people ? Seems you stated the original post to get a rise out of one of us or fans of the Dallas wings team ? May i ask the reasoning behind it ? Not sure where that came from but touche' Anymore expansion talk though ? Dallas has a team already Shocked Shocked Laughing Laughing



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 09/29/22 11:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
Go figure you both post. Alt accounts are so exhausting.

How many folded/relocated teams do we have from the south and Texas? Charlotte folded, Houston was unable to survive w/o the Rockets backing, Tulsa was a failed expirement of a location, SAS left town, Atlanta plays in the smallest arena in the league and Dallas plays in a college dorm room.

Sorry about it.


Your entitled to your opinion , but this part confuses me a bit . Are you saying that Myself and DFWDubz are the same people ? Seems you stated the original post to get a rise out of one of us or fans of the Dallas wings team ? May i ask the reasoning behind it ? Not sure where that came from but touche' Anymore expansion talk though ? Dallas has a team already Shocked Shocked Laughing Laughing


Yes. I think you are behind both accounts as you always seem to post in tandem and even had that bizarre exchange where you tried to meet him but then his section didn't exist (or whatever the excuse was).

And no, the intent was not to get a ride out of Dallas fans but I know that you take everything as a direct attack on yourself and your team, so there you have it.

I genuinely don't think there is enough support in Texas, the south (or Oklahoma) for W teams to thrive. I'm glad you have a team but Dallas and Atlanta are not the types of teams or markets this league wants to take on as evidenced by their extensive analysis of markets prior to announcing expansion.

I'm glad you have a team and wish they are never relocated.


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12494
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 09/29/22 11:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
Go figure you both post. Alt accounts are so exhausting.

How many folded/relocated teams do we have from the south and Texas? Charlotte folded, Houston was unable to survive w/o the Rockets backing, Tulsa was a failed expirement of a location, SAS left town, Atlanta plays in the smallest arena in the league and Dallas plays in a college dorm room.

Sorry about it.


Your entitled to your opinion , but this part confuses me a bit . Are you saying that Myself and DFWDubz are the same people ? Seems you stated the original post to get a rise out of one of us or fans of the Dallas wings team ? May i ask the reasoning behind it ? Not sure where that came from but touche' Anymore expansion talk though ? Dallas has a team already Shocked Shocked Laughing Laughing


Yes. I think you are behind both accounts as you always seem to post in tandem and even had that bizarre exchange where you tried to meet him but then his section didn't exist (or whatever the excuse was).

And no, the intent was not to get a ride out of Dallas fans but I know that you take everything as a direct attack on yourself and your team, so there you have it.

I genuinely don't think there is enough support in Texas, the south (or Oklahoma) for W teams to thrive. I'm glad you have a team but Dallas and Atlanta are not the types of teams or markets this league wants to take on as evidenced by their extensive analysis of markets prior to announcing expansion.

I'm glad you have a team and wish they are never relocated.


This is a first LMAO wow (No offense DFWdubz) , i will indeed and matter of factly tell you that you are definitely incorrect. If i tried to meet the poster , that means you believe i would make time to come here and post about meeting myself and NOT meeting myself afterwards ...perplexing much ?Shocked Shocked Maybe you should check the Dallas Wings thread more often to get clarity about each poster ? Also , I did not take it as a direct attack at all just wanted to know the reasoning for bringing it to the expansion talk thread that's all . It's those type of comments that make people become argumentative here on the board when there's absolutely no reason behind it . So if i respond how you assume i would back in the day then id be wrong right ? Exclamation Evil or Very Mad



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 09/29/22 11:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I should add, that I am very grateful for ownership groups like Dallas and Atlanta as they have bought into this league and helped keep the league afloat. I am glad they both exist, my point is that I don't think the league should be content with seeking out more teams like that. Obviously, the goal should be to emulate the success of teams like Seattle, Phoenix, Minnesota and NY.

I don't know what research and analysis they've put in to the expansion initiative but it's clear they aren't looking for whoever wants a team and hoping for the best. They seem very determined to put teams in locations that will thrive and looking for ownership second. But really who knows what behind the scenes talks they've had with potential owners. For all we know, Portland could be their #1 location but no ownership groups have emerged. I'll be interested to see where it goes and glad to see the league expand and grow.

Even if I do shade a few locations in the meantime.


johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: 09/29/22 11:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
Go figure you both post. Alt accounts are so exhausting.

How many folded/relocated teams do we have from the south and Texas? Charlotte folded, Houston was unable to survive w/o the Rockets backing, Tulsa was a failed expirement of a location, SAS left town, Atlanta plays in the smallest arena in the league and Dallas plays in a college dorm room.

Sorry about it.


Your entitled to your opinion , but this part confuses me a bit . Are you saying that Myself and DFWDubz are the same people ? Seems you stated the original post to get a rise out of one of us or fans of the Dallas wings team ? May i ask the reasoning behind it ? Not sure where that came from but touche' Anymore expansion talk though ? Dallas has a team already Shocked Shocked Laughing Laughing


Yes. I think you are behind both accounts as you always seem to post in tandem and even had that bizarre exchange where you tried to meet him but then his section didn't exist (or whatever the excuse was).

And no, the intent was not to get a ride out of Dallas fans but I know that you take everything as a direct attack on yourself and your team, so there you have it.

I genuinely don't think there is enough support in Texas, the south (or Oklahoma) for W teams to thrive. I'm glad you have a team but Dallas and Atlanta are not the types of teams or markets this league wants to take on as evidenced by their extensive analysis of markets prior to announcing expansion.

I'm glad you have a team and wish they are never relocated.


This is a first LMAO wow (No offense DFWdubz) , i will indeed and matter of factly tell you that you are definitely incorrect. If i tried to meet the poster , that means you believe i would make time to come here and post about meeting myself and NOT meeting myself afterwards ...perplexing much ?Shocked Shocked Maybe you should check the Dallas Wings thread more often to get clarity about each poster ? Also , I did not take it as a direct attack at all just wanted to know the reasoning for bringing it to the expansion talk thread that's all . It's those type of comments that make people become argumentative here on the board when there's absolutely no reason behind it . So if i respond how you assume i would back in the day then id be wrong right ? Exclamation Evil or Very Mad


I have bolded, underlined and enlarged the reason why I brought that opinion to this thread. You are one of the most defensive posters on this board and typically take even the slightest opinions that even reference Dallas as an attack on your fair city. Get a grip.


scullyfu



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: 09/29/22 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why does Oklahoma not qualify as a southern state? It is below the Mason-Dixon line. According to the U.S. Census bureau it is. Will someone Please explain the discrepancy to this Yankee? Thanks. Smile



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 09/29/22 11:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scullyfu wrote:
Why does Oklahoma not qualify as a southern state? It is below the Mason-Dixon line. According to the U.S. Census bureau it is. Will someone Please explain the discrepancy to this Yankee? Thanks. Smile


I'm from Central Florida and people from the south can get very defensive about what is and isn't the South. I tend to define it more by the Colonial South like Georgia, the Carolinas, Kentucky and Tennessee. The Delta South is very different to me but I do concede they count as the South. I don't consider Texas or Oklahoma to be "the South" although I've heard people from both states refer to themselves as Southern. I consider them more Southwestern states but who am I.

All this semantics to say that Tulsa, although an interesting location to place a team, did not thrive.


readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7355
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PostPosted: 09/29/22 1:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
scullyfu wrote:
Why does Oklahoma not qualify as a southern state? It is below the Mason-Dixon line. According to the U.S. Census bureau it is. Will someone Please explain the discrepancy to this Yankee? Thanks. Smile


I'm from Central Florida and people from the south can get very defensive about what is and isn't the South. I tend to define it more by the Colonial South like Georgia, the Carolinas, Kentucky and Tennessee. The Delta South is very different to me but I do concede they count as the South. I don't consider Texas or Oklahoma to be "the South" although I've heard people from both states refer to themselves as Southern. I consider them more Southwestern states but who am I.

All this semantics to say that Tulsa, although an interesting location to place a team, did not thrive.


With my mom being from Oklahoma and having numerous cousins across Oklahoma and Texas, I do not think they should be included as "the south." Definitely "southern adjacent" and sharing similar insular values. Texas has always considered themselves to be their own country, which continues to this day such as having their own power grid (that failed). Oklahoma is like a "territory of Texas" with the major exception of having such a strong and proud history of first peoples (native Americans) which does give Oklahoma its' own identity. And Oklahoma twang is distinct from Texas drawl.

In any case, the WNBA failed miserably in Tulsa and teams in Texas haven't done much better. While you'd think the hot and humid climates of Texas, Oklahoma and the south would lead throngs to indoor A/C entertainment, they're not good destinations for out of towners to want to visit when following their team to an away game. I live in NC so I know about hot and humid - most time visits here outside the July-August time of year.

I'm glad our commissioner is doing thorough analysis before locating new teams. I'm cheering for the Oakland/Alana Beard group as I believe combining with social justice is a strength for growing this league. It seems to be saving the Atlanta franchise and Atlanta is a really important location for this league. I don't have a favorite for the other location, though eastern North America seems a good idea, as midwest is well represented. Toronto seems to be a hotbed for girls and womens basketball and a welcoming destination for all kinds of diverse groups of people.



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DFWub2018



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
Posts: 1047
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth


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PostPosted: 09/29/22 3:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
Go figure you both post. Alt accounts are so exhausting.

How many folded/relocated teams do we have from the south and Texas? Charlotte folded, Houston was unable to survive w/o the Rockets backing, Tulsa was a failed expirement of a location, SAS left town, Atlanta plays in the smallest arena in the league and Dallas plays in a college dorm room.

Sorry about it.


Your entitled to your opinion , but this part confuses me a bit . Are you saying that Myself and DFWDubz are the same people ? Seems you stated the original post to get a rise out of one of us or fans of the Dallas wings team ? May i ask the reasoning behind it ? Not sure where that came from but touche' Anymore expansion talk though ? Dallas has a team already Shocked Shocked Laughing Laughing


Yes. I think you are behind both accounts as you always seem to post in tandem and even had that bizarre exchange where you tried to meet him but then his section didn't exist (or whatever the excuse was).

And no, the intent was not to get a ride out of Dallas fans but I know that you take everything as a direct attack on yourself and your team, so there you have it.

I genuinely don't think there is enough support in Texas, the south (or Oklahoma) for W teams to thrive. I'm glad you have a team but Dallas and Atlanta are not the types of teams or markets this league wants to take on as evidenced by their extensive analysis of markets prior to announcing expansion.

I'm glad you have a team and wish they are never relocated.



I have been trying my best to refrain from speaking on this topic but I'm going to address it this one time to clear the air....First, I am indeed an actual person, separate from my fellow WFFL WNBA09!

Second, when we had the initial conversation about meeting up at the Wings game, I had every intent to do so because I thought I would be the only one in my household attending that night, however, once it became clear that my "other half" would be going, things became complicated because even thou it would have been a friendly exchange between 09 and I, my other half would not have been so understanding and no doubt would have acted a damn fool, so instead of dealing the embarrassment by having to explain that to 09 and everyone else on the board, I lied about it, so that's on me not 09!

Third, all the comments about Tulsa means nothing, I live in Dallas and don't give a shit about Tulsa or Oklahoma for that matter!

Fourth, I find your comments amusing in reference to the College Park Center, considering it is one of the best facilities in the league that isn't an NBA venue...but you're entitled to your opinion!!!

Fifth, people love to knock on the Wings being a part of this league but if some would actually take the time out to do the research they can read for themselves that the Dallas Wings are the 3rd most financially secure franchise in the WNBA....guess it's still a dumb idea to play at the CPC vs NBA arenas that NO team can fill...but I digress🙄

Enjoy the rest of your day✌️


WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12494
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 09/29/22 4:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
johnjohnW wrote:
Go figure you both post. Alt accounts are so exhausting.

How many folded/relocated teams do we have from the south and Texas? Charlotte folded, Houston was unable to survive w/o the Rockets backing, Tulsa was a failed expirement of a location, SAS left town, Atlanta plays in the smallest arena in the league and Dallas plays in a college dorm room.

Sorry about it.


Your entitled to your opinion , but this part confuses me a bit . Are you saying that Myself and DFWDubz are the same people ? Seems you stated the original post to get a rise out of one of us or fans of the Dallas wings team ? May i ask the reasoning behind it ? Not sure where that came from but touche' Anymore expansion talk though ? Dallas has a team already Shocked Shocked Laughing Laughing


Yes. I think you are behind both accounts as you always seem to post in tandem and even had that bizarre exchange where you tried to meet him but then his section didn't exist (or whatever the excuse was).

And no, the intent was not to get a ride out of Dallas fans but I know that you take everything as a direct attack on yourself and your team, so there you have it.

I genuinely don't think there is enough support in Texas, the south (or Oklahoma) for W teams to thrive. I'm glad you have a team but Dallas and Atlanta are not the types of teams or markets this league wants to take on as evidenced by their extensive analysis of markets prior to announcing expansion.

I'm glad you have a team and wish they are never relocated.


This is a first LMAO wow (No offense DFWdubz) , i will indeed and matter of factly tell you that you are definitely incorrect. If i tried to meet the poster , that means you believe i would make time to come here and post about meeting myself and NOT meeting myself afterwards ...perplexing much ?Shocked Shocked Maybe you should check the Dallas Wings thread more often to get clarity about each poster ? Also , I did not take it as a direct attack at all just wanted to know the reasoning for bringing it to the expansion talk thread that's all . It's those type of comments that make people become argumentative here on the board when there's absolutely no reason behind it . So if i respond how you assume i would back in the day then id be wrong right ? Exclamation Evil or Very Mad


I have bolded, underlined and enlarged the reason why I brought that opinion to this thread. You are one of the most defensive posters on this board and typically take even the slightest opinions that even reference Dallas as an attack on your fair city. Get a grip.


Grip gotten. Im 2 different posters & the most defensive on rebkell . Got it & Gripped. Not sure why the personal insults when im asking you normal questions ? Me asking questions must make it seem defensive ? If so i know not to ask you anything or debate any of your posts moving forward. Have a blessed one .



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DFWub2018



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
Posts: 1047
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth


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PostPosted: 09/29/22 5:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
Go figure you both post. Alt accounts are so exhausting.

How many folded/relocated teams do we have from the south and Texas? Charlotte folded, Houston was unable to survive w/o the Rockets backing, Tulsa was a failed expirement of a location, SAS left town, Atlanta plays in the smallest arena in the league and Dallas plays in a college dorm room.

Sorry about it.



For the record, last I heard my hometown team (Los Angeles) is LITERALLY on the verge of folding and actually do train/practice in a grade F facility that's beyond embarrassing but according to you only the South has that issue....you're funny JohnJohn😆😆😆


johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



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PostPosted: 09/29/22 5:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In all of your defensiveness, you have completely missed my overall point. I did not say only southern/TX markets struggle. LA and Indiana are case and point.

My entire point, which was never a dig at Dallas to begin with but you two (well, the two accounts anyway) took it as such, was that I don't believe a TX or Southern team would strategically benefit the league while they are looking to grow their profile and build upon their recent success. But sure, let's expand back into Houston where they can play on a college gym too and struggle to fill the seats. That's just what the league needs.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 09/29/22 6:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah, it's not like half the west coast teams the league's ever had have folded...oh wait, yes they have. Well at least the remaining ones never needed an emergency buyer to keep from folding...oh wait, they've both needed that.



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DFWub2018



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth


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PostPosted: 09/29/22 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Yeah, it's not like half the west coast teams the league's ever had have folded...oh wait, yes they have. Well at least the remaining ones never needed an emergency buyer to keep from folding...oh wait, they've both needed that.



😆😆😆😂😂😂


DFWub2018



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
Posts: 1047
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth


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PostPosted: 09/29/22 9:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
In all of your defensiveness, you have completely missed my overall point. I did not say only southern/TX markets struggle. LA and Indiana are case and point.

My entire point, which was never a dig at Dallas to begin with but you two (well, the two accounts anyway) took it as such, was that I don't believe a TX or Southern team would strategically benefit the league while they are looking to grow their profile and build upon their recent success. But sure, let's expand back into Houston where they can play on a college gym too and struggle to fill the seats. That's just what the league needs.



Ok, JohnJohn!


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 09/29/22 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As we know, there are multiple ways that people/entities divide the ole US of A into regions.

And you can fight me on this, but it seems sensible to use the US Bureau of Economic Analysis' official map of divisions for the sake of this, uhh, exercise? Attempt at a debate-ender? Whatever lol the full map is at the very bottom of this post

anywho


* * *

Locations that have seen their WNBA team fold:
—Charlotte
—Cleveland
—Houston
—Miami
—Portland
—Sacramento

Locations that have seen their WNBA team relocate elsewhere:
—Detroit
—Orlando
—San Antonio
—Tulsa
—Utah


TOTAL FORMER LOCATIONS: 11
TOTAL CURRENT LOCATIONS: 12
GRAND TOTAL OF PAST & PRESENT LOCATIONS: 23


Former Far West locations: 2 (Portland, Sacramento)
—Currently there are 3 (Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Seattle)
—60% success rate for the region (3/5)

Former Rocky Mountain locations: 1 (Utah)
—Currently there are 0
—0% success rate for the region (0/1)

Former Southwest locations: 3 (Houston, San Antonio, Tulsa)
—Currently there are 2 (Dallas, Phoenix)
—40% success rate for the region (2/5)

Former Great Plains locations: 0
—Currently there is 1 (Minnesota)
—100% success rate for the region (1/1)

Former Great Lakes locations: 2 (Cleveland, Detroit)
—Currently there are 2 (Chicago, Indiana)
—50% success rate for the region (2/4)

Former Southeast locations: 3 (Charlotte, Miami, Orlando)
—Currently there is 1 (Atlanta)
—25% success rate for the region (1/4)

Former Mideast locations: 0
—Currently there are 2 (New York, Washington)
—100% success rate for the region (2/2)

Former New England locations: 0
—Currently there is 1 (Connecticut)
—100% success rate for the region (1/1)






Last edited by Stormeo on 09/30/22 10:25 pm; edited 2 times in total
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6776



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PostPosted: 09/30/22 3:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Even though I can pretty easily come up with reasons why

it saddens me that my hometown of Boston is not even in the discussion


SportsGuru



Joined: 20 May 2005
Posts: 4977



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PostPosted: 09/30/22 3:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think the WNBA wants to dance with Oakland and/or Toronto


DFWub2018



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
Posts: 1047
Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth


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PostPosted: 09/30/22 6:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SportsGuru wrote:
I think the WNBA wants to dance with Oakland and/or Toronto



Not sure about Toronto but there is no excuse for Oakland to not be the first one awarded a team once the announcement is made!


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9544



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PostPosted: 09/30/22 9:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Former Southwest locations: 3 (Houston, San Antonio, Tulsa)
—Currently there are 2 (Dallas, Phoenix)
—60% success rate for the region (3/5)


40% success rate. (2/5)


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