RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

WNBA expansion could add 2 teams before 2024
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 1:57 pm    ::: WNBA expansion could add 2 teams before 2024 Reply Reply with quote

https://theathletic.com/3343324/2022/06/02/wnba-expansion-possible-cities/

Quote:
Commissioner Cathy Engelbert told The Athletic she hopes to identify one or two cities for an expansion franchise by the start of the WNBA playoffs in September or by year’s end at the latest. Those new teams could begin to play as early as the 2024 season, she said.


johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Engelbert said that number does not account for the full value of the WNBA, only the league itself. She told The Athletic that the value of the WNBA’s 12 individual teams plus the league itself is worth over $1 billion. Though that method of valuation is unusual in comparison to how other professional sports leagues conduct their valuations, it also places the average value of a WNBA team at more than $43.75 million.


Dave Berry is going to love this tidbit as he's always argued the NBA and by proxy the W undervalues it's worth.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24327
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We saw that same 'creative' maths when they did the capital raise. They kept claiming the valuation of the league was over a billion dollars, then sold 16% of the league for $75 million.

What things are worth, generally speaking, is what someone would be willing to pay for them. If any of the recent buyers had paid anything like what Engelbert is claiming the individual franchises are worth, the numbers would've been leaked. It'll similarly be interesting to see if they're open about the 'franchise fee' that new owners would presumably pay for an expansion team...



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
We saw that same 'creative' maths when they did the capital raise. They kept claiming the valuation of the league was over a billion dollars, then sold 16% of the league for $75 million.

What things are worth, generally speaking, is what someone would be willing to pay for them. If any of the recent buyers had paid anything like what Engelbert is claiming the individual franchises are worth, the numbers would've been leaked. It'll similarly be interesting to see if they're open about the 'franchise fee' that new owners would presumably pay for an expansion team...


It's been interesting to see how figured have been handled in her tenure. I like that she is hyping up the value instead of downplaying it. It also depends on how you measure value. I flrefuse to believe any of the non NBA owned teams are losing money every year. There is just no way the owners of Seattle, Chicago, Atlanta, or probably even Connecticut could weather yearly losses like that.

I doubt we'll ever know the reality of the leagues finances, but I really like how Cathy has approached the business side of things and the league has been on a huge upswing (even dating back to Lisa Border's tenure).


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 16346
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 4:24 pm    ::: Re: WNBA expansion could add 2 teams before 2024 Reply Reply with quote

Surely they won't do it like this, but in 2024, there would two players coming out that would pretty great to start a franchise around.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24327
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 4:30 pm    ::: Re: WNBA expansion could add 2 teams before 2024 Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Surely they won't do it like this, but in 2024, there would two players coming out that would pretty great to start a franchise around.

Expansion teams don't get the top picks, based on NBA and WNBA history. They usually pick just below the lottery.

As always, part of the problem with trying to come up with rules that give expansion teams a chance to get off to a decent start is that the owners of the existing teams have to agree to the rules. Understandably, they don't want to give too much up.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 4:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Despite having the deck stacked against them 70% of expansion teams have made the playoffs within their first three seasons.



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 9:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I really wonder how the Fever will impact this expansion. You can't have a team averaging 1,500 fans. I'd love to see Indianapolis support the team but I think the years of being absolutely terrible has killed that fanbase. We know the owners are ambivalent.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9543



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 10:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Atlanta is also a candidate to be moved.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6775



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/02/22 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With the higher saleries expansion teams will be able to offer some mid level stars much bigger money than other teams in their first few years of existence. Maybe not a recipe for contending but could move them away from being terrible/unwatchable quicker.

I wonder if they would try to add one in 23 and one in 24 or do it all at once?


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/18/22 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jeff Walz, Angel McCoughtry Advocating for WNBA to Louisville

https://www.si.com/college/louisville/basketball/walz-mccoughtry-advocating-wnba-to-louisville

Quote:
There is precedent for the WNBA establishing a franchise due to the popularity of the college game in a market. The Orlando Miracle relocated to Uncasville, Conn. in 2003, then rebranded as the Connecticut Sun in part due to the popularity of women's college basketball in the state



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/18/22 5:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Jeff Walz, Angel McCoughtry Advocating for WNBA to Louisville

https://www.si.com/college/louisville/basketball/walz-mccoughtry-advocating-wnba-to-louisville

Quote:
There is precedent for the WNBA establishing a franchise due to the popularity of the college game in a market. The Orlando Miracle relocated to Uncasville, Conn. in 2003, then rebranded as the Connecticut Sun in part due to the popularity of women's college basketball in the state


See, I kind of don't love this. I kind of like these college WBB hotspots having their territory. The Sun are an anomaly and aren't in the same city as UConn.

I'm all for expansion wherever there is a viable fanbase and ownership group though.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9543



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/18/22 7:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Jeff Walz, Angel McCoughtry Advocating for WNBA to Louisville

https://www.si.com/college/louisville/basketball/walz-mccoughtry-advocating-wnba-to-louisville

Quote:
There is precedent for the WNBA establishing a franchise due to the popularity of the college game in a market. The Orlando Miracle relocated to Uncasville, Conn. in 2003, then rebranded as the Connecticut Sun in part due to the popularity of women's college basketball in the state


Quote:
Engelbert said that the WNBA has trimmed their list of potential cities down to 10 to 12 cities, and will run each city through 25 data points within five categories:

demographics,
psychographics,
sports benchmarks,
viewership and
fan data.

The WNBA hasn't expanded since the Atlanta Dream were established in 2008.


Have to wonder if they are expecting to get an ownership group outside of an area to buy a franchise as just happened in Atlanta. Otherwise you have to include "# of ownership groups willing to put up the $15 to $20 million we are now valuing a new franchise purchase at".
Psychographics?


johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/18/22 8:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
pilight wrote:
Jeff Walz, Angel McCoughtry Advocating for WNBA to Louisville

https://www.si.com/college/louisville/basketball/walz-mccoughtry-advocating-wnba-to-louisville

Quote:
There is precedent for the WNBA establishing a franchise due to the popularity of the college game in a market. The Orlando Miracle relocated to Uncasville, Conn. in 2003, then rebranded as the Connecticut Sun in part due to the popularity of women's college basketball in the state


Quote:
Engelbert said that the WNBA has trimmed their list of potential cities down to 10 to 12 cities, and will run each city through 25 data points within five categories:

demographics,
psychographics,
sports benchmarks,
viewership and
fan data.

The WNBA hasn't expanded since the Atlanta Dream were established in 2008.


Have to wonder if they are expecting to get an ownership group outside of an area to buy a franchise as just happened in Atlanta. Otherwise you have to include "# of ownership groups willing to put up the $15 to $20 million we are now valuing a new franchise purchase at".
Psychographics?


Is anyone from Yum Brands interested in owning a team?

Also, it's interesting that the majority of talk in a lot of these discussions is "Hey, WNBA, out a team here!" as if ownership groups are an afterthought..do people expect the W to own and operate these new teams?


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24327
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/18/22 8:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
Is anyone from Yum Brands interested in owning a team?

Also, it's interesting that the majority of talk in a lot of these discussions is "Hey, WNBA, out a team here!" as if ownership groups are an afterthought..do people expect the W to own and operate these new teams?

Understadable though, considering a lot of the noise coming from the league seems to be in regards to identifying the city/cities they want to put teams in first, rather than listening to potential ownership groups and then going where the best of those takes them. Seems like the place is coming before the people from both directions.

In fact, I wonder if that was part of releasing that supposed list of six potential cities in the Athletic article that came out fairly recently. Maybe then, rather than picking which of that shortlist you want to put a team in, you wait and see what appears from any of them, then say "this was our pick all along!" when it goes to the best ownership groups that come forward from any of those places.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9543



Back to top
PostPosted: 06/18/22 11:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
The WNBA has raised $75 million in funds from a group of equity investors that includes Nike, retired NBA players Baron Davis and Pau Gasol, and former U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.


I don't know how the WNBA is using or will use the $75 million, but it seems like that investment forces them to try and expand. Maybe that money will be used to create two ownership groups in two cities the WNBA selects. At least that makes more sense to me than the investors becoming minority owners of the WNBA and sharing profits/losses with the NBA.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/21/22 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

With expansion coming, WNBA players want owners willing to spend

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/06/21/wnba-expansion-owners-spending

Quote:
That has led to a dichotomy between teams that would like to spend more freely and those that can’t or don’t want to. Two of the league’s newest owners, the Las Vegas Aces’ Mark Davis and the New York Liberty’s Joseph Tsai, made headlines in the past year about their desire to spend. The Aces are building a new practice facility and made Becky Hammon the first coach with an annual salary of more than $1 million. The Liberty was fined by the WNBA last year for chartering flights, which is not permitted.

That fine and the ongoing back-and-forth over players flying commercial for games became an example of that dichotomy. Should teams be allowed to spend more freely, which could lead to a competitive advantage?



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 06/21/22 8:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Seeing what Maya Caldwell was able to do coming in fresh suggests there's plenty of talent for expansion



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 08/16/22 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

How Oakland and Toronto have prepared for WNBA expansion bids, and other cities in the running

https://sports.yahoo.com/how-oakland-and-toronto-have-prepared-for-wnba-expansion-bids-and-other-cities-in-the-running-192259131.html

Quote:
Yahoo Sports spoke with two ownership groups actively cultivating bids for a WNBA expansion team about how they’re selling their cities to the league. Fans in each market also shared why now is the best time to bring women’s professional hoops to their hometowns. Here’s what we found.



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1828



Back to top
PostPosted: 08/16/22 5:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
In 2019, Abrahams said the group was approached by an existing franchise about purchasing it and relocating to Canada. After going through the process and submitting a letter of intent for purchase, NMSE lost the bid.


I'd like to know more about this sentence.

I wonder what their bid was for the Liberty.


DTP



Joined: 24 Dec 2005
Posts: 6434
Location: Ohio


Back to top
PostPosted: 08/17/22 3:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Seeing what Maya Caldwell was able to do coming in fresh suggests there's plenty of talent for expansion


I would argue more for roster expansion than league expansion at this point. Whenever I see any type of practice film, it's going against practice guys which makes me think these teams get very little, if any, time to actually have real competitive scrimmages against other women. I would love for us to get to a place where the min roster size is 12 and max is 13-14.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 08/17/22 12:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As WNBA enters 'tipping point,' key questions remain on how to approach expansion

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/as-wnba-enters-tipping-point-key-questions-remain-on-how-to-approach-expansion-192119713.html

Quote:
Before she became college basketball’s most dominant player, South Carolina’s Aliyah Boston studied WNBA players like Candace Parker and A’ja Wilson. If a woman in the post made a move that stood out, Boston, 20, would point it out to her parents and say, “I need to go practice that.”



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
BamaEd



Joined: 11 May 2014
Posts: 852
Location: United States


Back to top
PostPosted: 08/17/22 1:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

DTP wrote:
pilight wrote:
Seeing what Maya Caldwell was able to do coming in fresh suggests there's plenty of talent for expansion


I would argue more for roster expansion than league expansion at this point. Whenever I see any type of practice film, it's going against practice guys which makes me think these teams get very little, if any, time to actually have real competitive scrimmages against other women. I would love for us to get to a place where the min roster size is 12 and max is 13-14.


My only question about that is, would the extra 2 on the roster get much playing time? Would the money work for teams to have a full 13-14 players? I think even the 11 player teams don't play that 11th player a ton. Team expansion would lead to more playing time than roster expansion, right?


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 08/17/22 2:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

BamaEd wrote:
DTP wrote:
pilight wrote:
Seeing what Maya Caldwell was able to do coming in fresh suggests there's plenty of talent for expansion


I would argue more for roster expansion than league expansion at this point. Whenever I see any type of practice film, it's going against practice guys which makes me think these teams get very little, if any, time to actually have real competitive scrimmages against other women. I would love for us to get to a place where the min roster size is 12 and max is 13-14.


My only question about that is, would the extra 2 on the roster get much playing time? Would the money work for teams to have a full 13-14 players? I think even the 11 player teams don't play that 11th player a ton. Team expansion would lead to more playing time than roster expansion, right?


Roster expansion would mean less of the hardship contract nonsense



_________________
Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24327
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 08/17/22 2:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Roster expansion would be complicated without re-writing a meaningful chunk of the CBA. The team cap numbers are specified through 2027, so are you going to require teams to fit 13-14 players under the same cap? Are we re-writing the cap numbers entirely? I doubt we see change like that until 2026 (both sides can opt out of the CBA after the 2025 season, and invariably one side or the other does).



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 1 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin