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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 02/18/22 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
.....Yet people lash out at my post as if I was calling for security to escort her off the campus this morning.


Umm, I didn't hear/see/feel any *lashing out* of any sort - just opinions as to why she still deserves a 'grace period'.



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HomerCecil



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PostPosted: 02/18/22 2:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Eh, I didn't think people were lashing out. I also think this thread can both be "people on the hot seat right now" and "uh oh, this is not a good sign for the long-term future of this coach," which is what I think you meant by Lawson.

(Seriously, how in the hell did they lose to Virginia?)


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 7372
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PostPosted: 02/18/22 3:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
How long is Kara Lawson's grace period?


Because of her inertial celebrity status, I'd say five years even if she has losing records. I don't expect her to have losing records, however. Duke is one of the few prestige schools that can self-recruit above average talent even apart from the coach.
summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 02/18/22 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
All of which of course is a why I said:

ArtBest23 wrote:
I assume she's not on the hot seat this year, . . .


And posed a QUESTION:

ArtBest23 wrote:
How long is Kara Lawson's grace period?


Yet people lash out at my post as if I was calling for security to escort her off the campus this morning.

It seems like a legitimate question for this thread, considering the hype surrounding her hire and Duke's fading performance. Unless someone is proposing an entirely new "too soon for the hot seat but on the watch list" thread, which seems kind of pointless to me. It's not like this thread is being overwhelmed with current hot seat discussion.


How long was Joanne P. McCallie's "grace period"? I don't exactly remember, but RAF can certainly tell us. I know it felt like at least 15 years but couldn't possibly have been. Or maybe it was. Anyway, Duke moves with, ahem. all deliberate speed, apparently.

Grace periods usually last at least 4-5 years.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/18/22 4:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:

How long was Joanne P. McCallie's "grace period"? I don't exactly remember, but RAF can certainly tell us. I know it felt like at least 15 years but couldn't possibly have been. Or maybe it was. Anyway, Duke moves with, ahem. all deliberate speed, apparently.

Grace periods usually last at least 4-5 years.


McCallie didn't need a grace period. She was succesful from day 1, finishing 3, 3, 1,1,1,1, 2 in the ACC her first 7 years, with 4 Elite 8s. Her first year she was 10-4 in conference, not 7-11 as Duke is likely to finish this year. It was only at the very end of her tenure that the wheels came off, unless you think winning the ACC but not making a FF is reasonable grounds for dismissal.

Grace periods may have been 4 or 5 years in the past, primarily because contracts ran that long and most schools didn't care enough about WBB to pay an early buyout. I'm not sure that's true at high profile programs anymore, at least I hope it's not.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 02/18/22 4:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kara has a ways to go to pick Duke up out of the mess Coach P left behind. She was an abusive mess, thanks to her unmedicated (at least for awhile) bipolar disorder, and so was the program. It takes a few years to rebuild trust in a program that's gone down that far, let alone anything else. And with that I will yield the mic to people closer to the program.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 02/18/22 5:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I don't expect her to have losing records, however. Duke is one of the few prestige schools that can self-recruit above average talent even apart from the coach.


That suggests lack of talent is the root of Duke's problem. I'm not sure that's the issue. They have 6 or 7 McDonalds AAs and other highly rated recruits on the roster. They certainly have a lot more talent than UVA.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 02/20/22 1:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nebraska Cornhuskers women's basketball assistant Chuck Love suspended with pay.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33328535/nebraska-cornhuskers-women-basketball-assistant-chuck-love-suspended-pay


PG4ever



Joined: 14 May 2020
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PostPosted: 02/20/22 10:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Nebraska Cornhuskers women's basketball assistant Chuck Love suspended with pay.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33328535/nebraska-cornhuskers-women-basketball-assistant-chuck-love-suspended-pay


Hope that his suspension and Scoggin's leaving the team are not related.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 02/20/22 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PG4ever wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Nebraska Cornhuskers women's basketball assistant Chuck Love suspended with pay.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33328535/nebraska-cornhuskers-women-basketball-assistant-chuck-love-suspended-pay


Hope that his suspension and Scoggin's leaving the team are not related.




????????? Rolling Eyes What did I miss?



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undersized_post



Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2282
Location: midwest


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PostPosted: 02/20/22 1:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Nebraska Cornhuskers women's basketball assistant Chuck Love suspended with pay.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33328535/nebraska-cornhuskers-women-basketball-assistant-chuck-love-suspended-pay


Hope that his suspension and Scoggin's leaving the team are not related.




????????? Rolling Eyes What did I miss?


Ashley Scoggin left the team and was removed from the online roster just hours after the news broke about the assistant coach being suspended. The rumor is what you'd think it is but nothing has been confirmed.



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PG4ever



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PostPosted: 02/20/22 3:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

undersized_post wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Nebraska Cornhuskers women's basketball assistant Chuck Love suspended with pay.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33328535/nebraska-cornhuskers-women-basketball-assistant-chuck-love-suspended-pay


Hope that his suspension and Scoggin's leaving the team are not related.




????????? Rolling Eyes What did I miss?


Ashley Scoggin left the team and was removed from the online roster just hours after the news broke about the assistant coach being suspended. The rumor is what you'd think it is but nothing has been confirmed.


I'll hold off on listening to or spreading any rumors and wait for the facts to come out. All we know right now is assistant coach Chuck Love has been suspended with pay and sophomore guard, 23-year old transfer Ashley Scoggin is no longer with the team.


Marquette Fan



Joined: 06 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: 02/20/22 10:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have to wonder about Kurt Godlevske at Butler - they are 1-23 this season overall and 0-15 in the Big East. In 8 seasons at Butler counting this season, he only has a winning record in two of those seasons.


NoDakSt



Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 02/21/22 1:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PG4ever wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Nebraska Cornhuskers women's basketball assistant Chuck Love suspended with pay.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33328535/nebraska-cornhuskers-women-basketball-assistant-chuck-love-suspended-pay


Hope that his suspension and Scoggin's leaving the team are not related.




????????? Rolling Eyes What did I miss?


Ashley Scoggin left the team and was removed from the online roster just hours after the news broke about the assistant coach being suspended. The rumor is what you'd think it is but nothing has been confirmed.


I'll hold off on listening to or spreading any rumors and wait for the facts to come out. All we know right now is assistant coach Chuck Love has been suspended with pay and sophomore guard, 23-year old transfer Ashley Scoggin is no longer with the team.
.

Not me. I’m all about gossip and hypotheticals. Bring it on.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 02/21/22 1:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Nebraska Cornhuskers women's basketball assistant Chuck Love suspended with pay.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33328535/nebraska-cornhuskers-women-basketball-assistant-chuck-love-suspended-pay


Hope that his suspension and Scoggin's leaving the team are not related.




????????? Rolling Eyes What did I miss?


Ashley Scoggin left the team and was removed from the online roster just hours after the news broke about the assistant coach being suspended. The rumor is what you'd think it is but nothing has been confirmed.


I'll hold off on listening to or spreading any rumors and wait for the facts to come out. All we know right now is assistant coach Chuck Love has been suspended with pay and sophomore guard, 23-year old transfer Ashley Scoggin is no longer with the team.
.

Not me. I’m all about gossip and hypotheticals. Bring it on.


But you've got to have pictures. I mean, these days, everybody posts videos and selfies of their PDAs on their Instagram accounts, right? So if there aren't pictures, it couldn't have happened.


PG4ever



Joined: 14 May 2020
Posts: 219



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PostPosted: 02/21/22 10:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
undersized_post wrote:
summertime blues wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
Nebraska Cornhuskers women's basketball assistant Chuck Love suspended with pay.

https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/story/_/id/33328535/nebraska-cornhuskers-women-basketball-assistant-chuck-love-suspended-pay


Hope that his suspension and Scoggin's leaving the team are not related.




????????? Rolling Eyes What did I miss?


Ashley Scoggin left the team and was removed from the online roster just hours after the news broke about the assistant coach being suspended. The rumor is what you'd think it is but nothing has been confirmed.


I'll hold off on listening to or spreading any rumors and wait for the facts to come out. All we know right now is assistant coach Chuck Love has been suspended with pay and sophomore guard, 23-year old transfer Ashley Scoggin is no longer with the team.
.

Not me. I’m all about gossip and hypotheticals. Bring it on.


Laughing Well, what had happened was... Laughing


readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 6193
Location: Durham, NC


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PostPosted: 02/21/22 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Kara has a ways to go to pick Duke up out of the mess Coach P left behind. She was an abusive mess, thanks to her unmedicated (at least for awhile) bipolar disorder, and so was the program. It takes a few years to rebuild trust in a program that's gone down that far, let alone anything else. And with that I will yield the mic to people closer to the program.


Thank you Summertime for bringing here what should have been painfully obvious to those without any bias. The entire DWB program was decimated and demoralized top to bottom from the "abusive mess" that was JPM. Most/all of the ongoing support staff stayed throughout her reign of terror and they're working hard to regain their mojo.

Only 4 players recruited by JPM remain on the squad and none are "go-to" type players by any measure. Coming in late (late summer before season's start), Kara only retained one recruit from JPM's last class and managed to find one recruit out of high school for this season. Next season is the first one we'll get to see a full class recruited by Kara.

The transfers in represent an upgrade over the bare cupboard JPM left. Some received accolades in high school, but none had been close to star level before transferring in. Yes, "second team All B10" and nice playing in the NCAA tournament show they are decent players, but not close to being star or "go to" level players. In addition, the players who played under JPM basically did not have any halfway decent coaching before Kara & Company arrived, but rather had bad habits and low morale that had to be undone.

JPM walked into a quality group of players, then turned out to recruit well. But, having successive top 5 recruiting classes led to exactly ZERO Final Fours, after Coach G had gotten to FOUR FF's in her last 8 years. To say JPM underachieved compared to the level of recruits would be a vast understatement.

Instead JPM pulled stunts such as complaining the tournament sent Duke to play her former team instead of preparing the team to actually play that game. In a game vs perennial softie Penn, JPM spent the pregame pitching a hissy fit over lack of access to a tennis court for herself instead of getting the team ready to play and they lost the game. This is all in addition to personally verbally attacking players with things like "I'd rather vomit than play with you" and "you're such a poor leader, you'll never make it into Medical School, let alone become an MD." Add in that JPM refused to ever take responsibility for poor performance and the professional longterm staff had to reach deep to find a positive spin. How any of them coped with the utter lack of professionalism of the head coach is beyond my ability to guess. I do know how excited they were when Kara arrived and began a new era of professionalism. They knew Duke had been the laughingstock of all who follow the sport closely and their own professional careers were affected by association.

It takes awhile to change and build an entire positive culture from a bare cupboard of players and demoralized professional support staff.

Are Duke fans upset and embarrassed by the loss to Virginia and all around less than stellar play in the ACC? Absolutely. But every fan of the program is looking forward to see what Kara can do over time. The suggestion that she belongs in this thread simply shows bias of the poster. That is all. It is utterly ridiculous but not unexpected based on past experience of biased ridiculousness of the poster.

Get a grip. Let Kara coach a season with some recruits she picked and a season she doesn't have to start from ground zero in building a positive culture.



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goforit77



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PostPosted: 02/22/22 6:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It doesn't help that Courtney Banghart is doing a better job down the road at hated UNC.



Are you seriously comparing CB who is in her third year to Kara?

I live in NC and plenty of Tar Heel fans are dissatisfied with where they are.

They play a soft non-conference schedule and they think they should be closer to elite which shares the same type of delusion as the thought that Kara is anywhere near a hot seat.


PG4ever



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PostPosted: 03/03/22 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wondering how soon after the conference tournaments ADs will start moving on replacing some coaches. Two of the hottest seats:UVA (Thompson) plays Wake in the ACC tourney and Butler (Godlevske) plays Seton Hall in the Big East tourney. I think both UVA and Butler will lose. If they do, will announcements come quickly?


Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 03/03/22 10:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PG4ever wrote:
Wondering how soon after the conference tournaments ADs will start moving on replacing some coaches. Two of the hottest seats:UVA (Thompson) plays Wake in the ACC tourney and Butler (Godlevske) plays Seton Hall in the Big East tourney. I think both UVA and Butler will lose. If they do, will announcements come quickly?


If Butler doesn’t take action, it shows they don’t care at all about women’s basketball. They won one game all season and lost every league game. Their season should be over tomorrow - I give them zero chance to beat Seton Hall.


purduefanatic



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: 03/03/22 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Marquette Fan wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
Wondering how soon after the conference tournaments ADs will start moving on replacing some coaches. Two of the hottest seats:UVA (Thompson) plays Wake in the ACC tourney and Butler (Godlevske) plays Seton Hall in the Big East tourney. I think both UVA and Butler will lose. If they do, will announcements come quickly?


If Butler doesn’t take action, it shows they don’t care at all about women’s basketball. They won one game all season and lost every league game. Their season should be over tomorrow - I give them zero chance to beat Seton Hall.


I don't understand how Butler can be that bad given Hinkle Fieldhouse, location in Indy, the Big East membership, the academic reputation, the fertile recruiting grounds within 3-4 hours, etc. I understand the proximity to Notre Dame/Indiana/Purdue/Louisville/Ohio State/DePaul, but there are plenty of excellent student-athletes in the region.


Howee



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PostPosted: 03/03/22 11:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
Marquette Fan wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
Wondering how soon after the conference tournaments ADs will start moving on replacing some coaches. Two of the hottest seats:UVA (Thompson) plays Wake in the ACC tourney and Butler (Godlevske) plays Seton Hall in the Big East tourney. I think both UVA and Butler will lose. If they do, will announcements come quickly?


If Butler doesn’t take action, it shows they don’t care at all about women’s basketball. They won one game all season and lost every league game. Their season should be over tomorrow - I give them zero chance to beat Seton Hall.


I don't understand how Butler can be that bad given Hinkle Fieldhouse, location in Indy, the Big East membership, the academic reputation, the fertile recruiting grounds within 3-4 hours, etc. I understand the proximity to Notre Dame/Indiana/Purdue/Louisville/Ohio State/DePaul, but there are plenty of excellent student-athletes in the region.


I think you just pointed out the largest challenge, COMPOUNDED by an administration that doesn't really care if their wbb program is competitive. And sadly, that typically comes down to budgets.

Just look at those powerhouses you named. If elite talent is recruited by these powerhouses - or beyond, when talent like Maddie Scherr and Sydney Parrish go west to Oregon, etc. - they'll be lucky to get a few mid-level players.

It seems as if it will always be that way; there will always be the teams like Delaware State (who won ZERO games this entire season), Canisius, or Chicago St. that just don't have a bright future for growth.



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purduefanatic



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: 03/03/22 12:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
Marquette Fan wrote:
PG4ever wrote:
Wondering how soon after the conference tournaments ADs will start moving on replacing some coaches. Two of the hottest seats:UVA (Thompson) plays Wake in the ACC tourney and Butler (Godlevske) plays Seton Hall in the Big East tourney. I think both UVA and Butler will lose. If they do, will announcements come quickly?


If Butler doesn’t take action, it shows they don’t care at all about women’s basketball. They won one game all season and lost every league game. Their season should be over tomorrow - I give them zero chance to beat Seton Hall.


I don't understand how Butler can be that bad given Hinkle Fieldhouse, location in Indy, the Big East membership, the academic reputation, the fertile recruiting grounds within 3-4 hours, etc. I understand the proximity to Notre Dame/Indiana/Purdue/Louisville/Ohio State/DePaul, but there are plenty of excellent student-athletes in the region.


I think you just pointed out the largest challenge, COMPOUNDED by an administration that doesn't really care if their wbb program is competitive. And sadly, that typically comes down to budgets.

Just look at those powerhouses you named. If elite talent is recruited by these powerhouses - or beyond, when talent like Maddie Scherr and Sydney Parrish go west to Oregon, etc. - they'll be lucky to get a few mid-level players.

It seems as if it will always be that way; there will always be the teams like Delaware State (who won ZERO games this entire season), Canisius, or Chicago St. that just don't have a bright future for growth.


There are literally hundreds of players from Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan and Kentucky that can help them. You only need to get a couple/year. I'm not talking about being a national championship contender. I'm talking about just being competitive at this point.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 03/03/22 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:

There are literally hundreds of players from Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, Michigan and Kentucky that can help them. You only need to get a couple/year. I'm not talking about being a national championship contender. I'm talking about just being competitive at this point.


In looking at Butler's roster, they've gotten MORE THAN a couple/year, if you don't need *elite* players; I counted 7 or 8 that led their states' prep ballers in ppg, were nationally rated 3 or 4 star recruits, and some of the better ones came from WA, VA, LA or Australia. I'd say, with GOOD COACHING, that's enough talent to be way better than bottom-of-the-pile.



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funkdafied



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PostPosted: 03/04/22 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

According to a Tulsa World story from earlier this week, Jim Littell is already planning for the 2022-23 season. How sad for Oklahoma State.

Littell said he plans to look outside the program for experience and scoring to fix the mess he’s created. His goal is to hit the portal hard and hope he can find a scorer to carry the program for a season or two.

His roster will be full of juniors and seniors next season. But Littell’s program lacks player development, so he’s given up on his current roster.

He’s 92-105 in the Big 12 in 11 seasons at OSU. The Cowgirls play at Texas tomorrow. So I expect him to be 92-106 after that.

I apologize for the negative tone of this post. But I’m just stating facts, and I’m so tired of the Jim Littell era. Sad


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