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summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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PostPosted: 11/18/21 1:49 pm    ::: Coaching Chairs Getting Warm.... Reply Reply with quote

I'll start. Tina Thompson at UVA. After the trashing they got last night from UCF (59-3Cool? It's been that way so far this season. Having seen them in action my assessment is that they have no clue what they are doing on the floor. The backcourt is trying to coach themselves and the only one who seems to be getting any coaching at all is their post player (Camryn Taylor I think is her name) who is doing the bulk of their scoring. My prediction is that UVA will inhabit the cellar of the ACC and Tina will be gone at or before season's end.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 11/18/21 1:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am once again begging someone to set Joe Tartamella's seat on fire, since as long as he works cheap, approximates .500, and doesn't have anyone screw up too badly, St. John's won't heat the seat for him.



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okstateguy



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PostPosted: 11/18/21 2:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see no way Brandon Schneider is at Kansas following this year.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 11/18/21 4:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For the Pac-12, Colorado's JR Payne and Utah's Lynne Roberts will have to gain some ground during Conference play this year – and maybe even have to make the Big Dance, period – to keep their respective jobs. Colorado hasn't been Tourney-bound for darn near a decade. Utah hasn't made it once since joining the Pac-12.

The only other Pac coach who legitimately should be on the hot seat, as discussed starting from here down through the rest of the page, is ASU's Charli Turner Thorne. But people have said that that's not gonna happen anytime soon, even if it arguably should've happened by now. From how the Sun Devils have done so far this year, I'm not seeing them being a Tourney-bound team this year, or really anytime soon.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 11/18/21 5:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tina, Brandon....absolutely.

Certain teams/coaches come to mind, but it's usually schools that just don't seem to give a rip. Jada Pierce has been at Niagara University for a while, with not much to show for it. Last 2 seasons were dismal.

Not that he should be on this list by any means - his recent seasons have been fantastic in the mid-majors - but I always wondered why Brian Giorgis at Marist has never risen above the obscurity that he slipped into after his Cinderella seasons, knocking out teams from the tournament, like Ohio State who was loaded at the time. He had a couple of seasons of glory, and then....*poof*. No more. Part of it may be that he's quite content to be a big fish in a smaller pond, and that's cool. I think he is a stellar coach, though....he did so much with NOT that much raw talent.



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HomerCecil



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PostPosted: 11/19/21 2:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would say Melanie Moore, who is in her third season at Xavier and so far has a record of 8-40, which is a staggeringly terrible record, especially for a team in the Big East that should at least be able to beat teams from low-major conferences.

This is her third season and yet there are no signs of getting a cohesive roster together as seven players from last season's team transferred out after the year ended.

However, Xavier has shown zero interest in women's basketball since Kevin McGuff left for Ohio State. Firing Moore won't do anything unless the administration shows any sign of interest in its women's program. This is a team that does things it well-supported men's team would never do, such as scheduling home-and-home series with teams from low major conferences. It's like it's still 1990 and the team is in the Midwestern Collegiate Conference, which was the case before it entered the Atlantic 10 and then the Big East.

Megan Duffy, who was the head coach at Miami (Ohio) just up the road from Cincinnati and is from Dayton, which is REALLY just up the road from Cincinnati, took the Marquette job at the same time Xavier hired Moore. I would be curious to know if Xavier even sniffed at Duffy, and/or if she realized there was no backing from the administration and said no thanks. It could be neither, but a logical thing to wonder about.

UConn could probably beat them by 80.


okstateguy



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PostPosted: 11/19/21 2:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A name that could be added is Kevin Borseth. He appears to be trending in a direction of shallow runs in the WNIT being the new standard for the program. At 67, is he the one to reverse the trend? I mean, he's left Green Bay before and they took him back. It's not like they really "owe" him to let him run the program in the ground the next few years until he reaches 800 wins.



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purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 11/19/21 3:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

HomerCecil wrote:
This is a team that does things it well-supported men's team would never do, such as scheduling home-and-home series with teams from low major conferences. It's like it's still 1990 and the team is in the Midwestern Collegiate Conference, which was the case before it entered the Atlantic 10 and then the Big East.


WBB games the last couple of days, including today:
Arkansas @ Arkansas State
Wisconsin @ Bradley
Iowa State @ Drake
LSU @ Louisiana
GA Tech @ East Tennessee State
Boston College @ Boston University
Purdue @ Illinois State
St. John's @ Temple
TCU @ Tulane
Missouri @ St Louis

WBB games this weekend:
Michigan @ Central Michigan
Villanova @ St. Joe's
Indiana @ Quinnipiac
Cal @ UC-San Diego
Pitt @ Duquesne
Michigan State @ Fordham
Stanford @ Gonzaga
Washington State @ Idaho

Thus, going back 2 days plus looking ahead 2 days, so for a total of 5 days, you are looking at 18 or so such match-ups.

There are even some of these match-ups on the men's side over the last few days:
Auburn @ South Florida
Michigan @ UNLV
Arizona State @ San Diego State
Boston College @ Rhode Island
Washington State @ Idaho
North Carolina @ Charleston
USC @ Florida Gulf Coast
Miami @ Florida Atlantic
Penn State @ UMass
Virginia @ Houston

That is one thing I loved about Pat Summitt. She was a proponent of taking her teams all over the country, playing in all sorts of gyms so that she could help to grow the game. It didn't matter if it was Missoula, Montana or Orono, Maine or Kalamazoo, Michigan or Youngstown, Ohio or Burlington, Vermont or Deland, Florida or Nacogdoches, Texas or Bowling Green, Kentucky...she took the Vols all around the country.


HomerCecil



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PostPosted: 11/19/21 4:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mea culpa! Strike that line from my critique of the Xavier program.


Howee



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PostPosted: 11/19/21 4:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:

That is one thing I loved about Pat Summitt. She was a proponent of taking her teams all over the country, playing in all sorts of gyms so that she could help to grow the game. It didn't matter if it was Missoula, Montana or Orono, Maine or Kalamazoo, Michigan or Youngstown, Ohio or Burlington, Vermont or Deland, Florida or Nacogdoches, Texas or Bowling Green, Kentucky...she took the Vols all around the country.

Not clear on this idea (above) and its relevance to Homer's analysis of Xavier.
Certainly Pat did just as you describe. But. She had (what was at that time) THE most recognizable brand in wbb, and had the drawing power to bring attention to any venue she graced. Xavier?

okstateguy wrote:
A name that could be added is Kevin Borseth. He appears to be trending in a direction of shallow runs in the WNIT being the new standard for the program. At 67, is he the one to reverse the trend? I mean, he's left Green Bay before and they took him back. It's not like they really "owe" him to let him run the program in the ground the next few years until he reaches 800 wins.

True. I remember when he was The Next Hot Thing in coaching. A bit reminiscent of Giorgis.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 11/19/21 5:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
That is one thing I loved about Pat Summitt. She was a proponent of taking her teams all over the country, playing in all sorts of gyms so that she could help to grow the game. It didn't matter if it was Missoula, Montana or Orono, Maine or Kalamazoo, Michigan or Youngstown, Ohio or Burlington, Vermont or Deland, Florida or Nacogdoches, Texas or Bowling Green, Kentucky...she took the Vols all around the country.


Not disagreeing! The flip side of "Oh, wow, Jabronie U is really challenging themselves with Power Team!" is "Really, Power Team, you scheduled Jabronie U?" But having your entire non-conference schedule be a combination of cupcakes and bran muffins, with maybe one juicy game, is a problem, and Xavier's schedule leans more in that direction than in the "we'll go accept the challenge of an outmatched mid-major".

That also being said, what kind of foundation is Moore even building from? When was the last time Xavier was a team to be reckoned with? There have been multiple failed regimes in that time, and it might take more than a full recruiting cycle for her to be respectable.



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Marquette Fan



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PostPosted: 11/21/21 8:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

HomerCecil wrote:
I would say Melanie Moore, who is in her third season at Xavier and so far has a record of 8-40, which is a staggeringly terrible record, especially for a team in the Big East that should at least be able to beat teams from low-major conferences.

This is her third season and yet there are no signs of getting a cohesive roster together as seven players from last season's team transferred out after the year ended.

However, Xavier has shown zero interest in women's basketball since Kevin McGuff left for Ohio State. Firing Moore won't do anything unless the administration shows any sign of interest in its women's program. This is a team that does things it well-supported men's team would never do, such as scheduling home-and-home series with teams from low major conferences. It's like it's still 1990 and the team is in the Midwestern Collegiate Conference, which was the case before it entered the Atlantic 10 and then the Big East.

Megan Duffy, who was the head coach at Miami (Ohio) just up the road from Cincinnati and is from Dayton, which is REALLY just up the road from Cincinnati, took the Marquette job at the same time Xavier hired Moore. I would be curious to know if Xavier even sniffed at Duffy, and/or if she realized there was no backing from the administration and said no thanks. It could be neither, but a logical thing to wonder about.

UConn could probably beat them by 80.


I have no idea if Xavier looked at Duffy or not when they had their opening a few years ago. But I do know Marquette focused in on her rather quickly as AD Bill Scholl had worked at Notre Dame and was very familiar with her. And as Queenie also mentioned, the Xavier program was not in very good shape. Marquette had just graduated five 1,000+ point scorers at that time but they did have a much more recent run of success than Xavier.


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PostPosted: 11/22/21 9:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is all very true, and Xavier did finally get a win yesterday, 70-49 against Valparaiso. That's the largest victory I can remember in quite some time. And yes, her third year is probably too soon for the seat to get warm. I just thought it was not a great look to have seven players transfer out just before Moore's third season got underway, but I guess transferring is just more common in general now. The 106-78 loss to Colorado, the 84-64 loss against a Memphis team picked to finish last in the American (unanimously) and a home loss to Miami (Ohio) are all bad news.

Certainly rooting for her to right the ship, and my overarching question is more about the administration's commitment to the program than it is about her coaching abilities.


PG4ever



Joined: 14 May 2020
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PostPosted: 11/22/21 11:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

HomerCecil wrote:
I would say Melanie Moore, who is in her third season at Xavier and so far has a record of 8-40, which is a staggeringly terrible record, especially for a team in the Big East that should at least be able to beat teams from low-major conferences.

This is her third season and yet there are no signs of getting a cohesive roster together as seven players from last season's team transferred out after the year ended.

However, Xavier has shown zero interest in women's basketball since Kevin McGuff left for Ohio State. Firing Moore won't do anything unless the administration shows any sign of interest in its women's program. This is a team that does things it well-supported men's team would never do, such as scheduling home-and-home series with teams from low major conferences. It's like it's still 1990 and the team is in the Midwestern Collegiate Conference, which was the case before it entered the Atlantic 10 and then the Big East.

Megan Duffy, who was the head coach at Miami (Ohio) just up the road from Cincinnati and is from Dayton, which is REALLY just up the road from Cincinnati, took the Marquette job at the same time Xavier hired Moore. I would be curious to know if Xavier even sniffed at Duffy, and/or if she realized there was no backing from the administration and said no thanks. It could be neither, but a logical thing to wonder about.

UConn could probably beat them by 80.


I feel bad for MM because I loved her as an asst. when she was here at Michigan. Hope she can turn things around this year.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 11/22/21 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

HomerCecil wrote:
This is all very true, and Xavier did finally get a win yesterday, 70-49 against Valparaiso. That's the largest victory I can remember in quite some time. And yes, her third year is probably too soon for the seat to get warm. I just thought it was not a great look to have seven players transfer out just before Moore's third season got underway, but I guess transferring is just more common in general now. The 106-78 loss to Colorado, the 84-64 loss against a Memphis team picked to finish last in the American (unanimously) and a home loss to Miami (Ohio) are all bad news.

Certainly rooting for her to right the ship, and my overarching question is more about the administration's commitment to the program than it is about her coaching abilities.


This is a good point. It used to be unusual to see more than one, maybe two, transfers from a team each season. I believe there were >1000 transfers in the portal this past season, not surprising given the relaxation of various rules, but that's an average of 3 players per team. When do we attribute it to the coach's ability vs everything else?


mzonefan



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 11/23/21 9:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
HomerCecil wrote:
This is all very true, and Xavier did finally get a win yesterday, 70-49 against Valparaiso. That's the largest victory I can remember in quite some time. And yes, her third year is probably too soon for the seat to get warm. I just thought it was not a great look to have seven players transfer out just before Moore's third season got underway, but I guess transferring is just more common in general now. The 106-78 loss to Colorado, the 84-64 loss against a Memphis team picked to finish last in the American (unanimously) and a home loss to Miami (Ohio) are all bad news.

Certainly rooting for her to right the ship, and my overarching question is more about the administration's commitment to the program than it is about her coaching abilities.


This is a good point. It used to be unusual to see more than one, maybe two, transfers from a team each season. I believe there were >1000 transfers in the portal this past season, not surprising given the relaxation of various rules, but that's an average of 3 players per team. When do we attribute it to the coach's ability vs everything else?


The Covid year transfers were at a higher rate for almost every program. The extra year of eligibility allowed graduates to get a year into their masters programs - either at their alma mater or somewhere else that could offer their academic program or a different/better playing experience. Others transferred closer to home, up to a better program or down to something with less pressure.

Looking at Rauol’s transfer tracker tells a more complete story at Xavier. Four of the transfers were graduates (Marshall, West Virginia, San Jose State and Duquesne). Once dropped to a junior college (Wabash Valley). The two others were to UNC Wilmington and Bowling Green. The undergrad D1 transfers are both currently leading their new teams in scoring.

Melanie had 14 on the roster last season, and the Musketeers only played 15 games. They had just one game in November and then had 3 weeks off, played steadily from mid-December to mid-January and then had another 3 weeks off.

https://wbbblog.com/womens-basketball-transfers-fall-2020-summer-2021/26/


Hoopsmom



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PostPosted: 11/23/21 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The NCAA mandates that the athletes are in class during the summer sessions for at least the first three years. Many athletes, especially the women, take full advantage of this and graduate in three years, and have one year of their Master’s program done within their first four year window. My daughter is currently working on and will finish her second Master’s degree this season, although she is in her second year because of a transfer a red shirt. It gets tougher when the athletes are in nursing or teaching, because they have time requirements that are outside of their control.


ucbart



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PostPosted: 11/23/21 9:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
The NCAA mandates that the athletes are in class during the summer sessions for at least the first three years. Many athletes, especially the women, take full advantage of this and graduate in three years, and have one year of their Master’s program done within their first four year window. My daughter is currently working on and will finish her second Master’s degree this season, although she is in her second year because of a transfer a red shirt. It gets tougher when the athletes are in nursing or teaching, because they have time requirements that are outside of their control.


Will she look to stay in South Dakota and get a job in her field, move to a big city somewhere in the US, or is her plan to go overseas play pro and try and make the WNBA?


purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 11/23/21 10:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
The NCAA mandates that the athletes are in class during the summer sessions for at least the first three years.


Is this a new rule? We never had to keep kids on campus, esp at the mid-major level. Some stayed, some went home. We sometimes had a hard time getting them back to work summer camp. I don't recall ever hearing about a rule that required student-athletes to take summer classes.


Hoopsmom



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PostPosted: 11/23/21 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It’s been there more than the six years that my daughter has been there - we remember it from when she was going on recruiting vosits. It started when they allowed coaches to require the athletes to be on campus, but in order to be on campus for practices, they have to be enrolled in class.


purduefanatic



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: 11/23/21 12:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoopsmom wrote:
It’s been there more than the six years that my daughter has been there - we remember it from when she was going on recruiting vosits. It started when they allowed coaches to require the athletes to be on campus, but in order to be on campus for practices, they have to be enrolled in class.


Thank you for that info.


osubeavers



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PostPosted: 11/23/21 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
For the Pac-12, Colorado's JR Payne and Utah's Lynne Roberts will have to gain some ground during Conference play this year – and maybe even have to make the Big Dance, period – to keep their respective jobs. Colorado hasn't been Tourney-bound for darn near a decade. Utah hasn't made it once since joining the Pac-12.

The only other Pac coach who legitimately should be on the hot seat, as discussed starting from here down through the rest of the page, is ASU's Charli Turner Thorne. But people have said that that's not gonna happen anytime soon, even if it arguably should've happened by now. From how the Sun Devils have done so far this year, I'm not seeing them being a Tourney-bound team this year, or really anytime soon.


Cori Close seems to do less with more than any coach I can think of (except for maybe Holly Warlick). Now in her 11th season and has never won a reg season or conf tournament championship. Only finished better than 3rd one time. Only one trip to the Elite Eight.

Is going 13-5 or 14-4 in conference year after year "good enough" at UCLA?



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PostPosted: 11/23/21 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

osubeavers wrote:
Cori Close seems to do less with more than any coach I can think of (except for maybe Holly Warlick). Now in her 11th season and has never won a reg season or conf tournament championship. Only finished better than 3rd one time. Only one trip to the Elite Eight.

Is going 13-5 or 14-4 in conference year after year "good enough" at UCLA?


Honestly, I would think so. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ No matter how we feel about Close’s deficiencies as a coach, the Bruins have been finishing in the top half of the ever-tougher Pac-12 throughout her tenure in Westwood, and we really don’t seem to hear about any shenanigans within the program. I don’t think the AD would risk removing her out of desperation to get to a Final Four when the program perennially averages winning ~2 Tourney games per season. Maybe they think it’s just a matter of time, at this point.



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eibln



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PostPosted: 11/24/21 6:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was thinking Suzy Merchant at Michigan State could potentially be on the hot seat. The last four years haven’t lived up to expectations. And if she wasn’t on the hot seat before she might be now after two straight losses coming to Fordham and St Francis (BK). Merchant is a decent coach, but the Big Ten isn’t a cake walk anymore. Not to mention she has lost three straight to Michigan.

Lance White at Pitt should definitely be on the hot seat. His record looks almost as bad as Melanie Moore at 21-60 over three seasons.

Amanda Butler at Clemson.

Nancy Fahey at Illinois.

Amy Williams at Nebraska.

Whalen at Minnesota.


mzonefan



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PostPosted: 11/24/21 7:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eibln wrote:
I was thinking Suzy Merchant at Michigan State could potentially be on the hot seat. The last four years haven’t lived up to expectations. And if she wasn’t on the hot seat before she might be now after two straight losses coming to Fordham and St Francis (BK). Merchant is a decent coach, but the Big Ten isn’t a cake walk anymore. Not to mention she has lost three straight to Michigan.


Suzy has had some really bad luck with injuries to key players over the last few years. Losing Ozment and Ayrault for the season has to have really hurt with chemistry and those gut-check moments in close games. I can’t imagine that she’s on the hot seat in comparison to some of the other women’s coaches at MSU who have much worse results.

Michigan State has tolerated softball coach Jacquie Joseph for 28 seasons. She’s been over .500 in just ten of those; hasn’t had a .500 B1G record since 2003; and hasn’t made the NCAAs since 2004. The volleyball coach, Cathy George, is in her 17th season. After a series of NCAA appearances (the most recent and best Elite Eight in 2017), MSU went 12th, 12th, 14th in the B1G and is currently tied for 11th. The field hockey team under Helen Knull has won 1 B1G game in the last four seasons.


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