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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66905 Location: Where the action is
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2815 Location: New York
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Posted: 11/05/21 11:43 am ::: |
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Start a total rebuild. Trade Nneka for some draft picks while she still has value, dump Chiney, and hit the reset button.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24351 Location: London
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Posted: 11/05/21 11:56 am ::: |
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ucbart wrote: |
Start a total rebuild. Trade Nneka for some draft picks while she still has value, dump Chiney, and hit the reset button. |
Shhh, I'm lobbying to play LA in our Mock Offseason and you're giving away my plan.
Thanks for posting the link to Part 2, pilight. |
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18030 Location: Queens
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Posted: 11/05/21 12:57 pm ::: |
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"Dump Chiney" seems like the obvious part of any Sparks plan. If you really still need to pay her, she'd probably be just as effective as a sideline reporter. Or in whatever role lets her dress pretty, since for all her Stanford brains, showing off her outfits seems to be what she puts the most effort into.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66905 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 11/05/21 1:10 pm ::: |
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Queenie wrote: |
"Dump Chiney" seems like the obvious part of any Sparks plan. If you really still need to pay her, she'd probably be just as effective as a sideline reporter. Or in whatever role lets her dress pretty, since for all her Stanford brains, showing off her outfits seems to be what she puts the most effort into. |
Her contract is guaranteed. Dumping her doesn't give them any extra cap space.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Posts: 1047 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth
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Posted: 11/05/21 5:08 pm ::: |
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ucbart wrote: |
Start a total rebuild. Trade Nneka for some draft picks while she still has value, dump Chiney, and hit the reset button. |
Get Bibb on the line.......
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18030 Location: Queens
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Posted: 11/05/21 5:21 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Queenie wrote: |
"Dump Chiney" seems like the obvious part of any Sparks plan. If you really still need to pay her, she'd probably be just as effective as a sideline reporter. Or in whatever role lets her dress pretty, since for all her Stanford brains, showing off her outfits seems to be what she puts the most effort into. |
Her contract is guaranteed. Dumping her doesn't give them any extra cap space. |
what.
they were that stupid?!?! my brain has broken how do I word
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 11/05/21 5:34 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Queenie wrote: |
"Dump Chiney" seems like the obvious part of any Sparks plan. If you really still need to pay her, she'd probably be just as effective as a sideline reporter. Or in whatever role lets her dress pretty, since for all her Stanford brains, showing off her outfits seems to be what she puts the most effort into. |
Her contract is guaranteed. Dumping her doesn't give them any extra cap space. |
Question that I've honestly never known the answer to for sure: If a player retires in the middle of their (guaranteed) contract, do they eventually get paid out the remainder of their contract in some way/shape/form? Or does their contract effectively get terminated/cut short?
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24351 Location: London
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Posted: 11/05/21 5:52 pm ::: |
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Stormeo wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Queenie wrote: |
"Dump Chiney" seems like the obvious part of any Sparks plan. If you really still need to pay her, she'd probably be just as effective as a sideline reporter. Or in whatever role lets her dress pretty, since for all her Stanford brains, showing off her outfits seems to be what she puts the most effort into. |
Her contract is guaranteed. Dumping her doesn't give them any extra cap space. |
Question that I've honestly never known the answer to for sure: If a player retires in the middle of their (guaranteed) contract, do they eventually get paid out the remainder of their contract in some way/shape/form? Or does their contract effectively get terminated/cut short? |
If the player simply chooses to walk off into the sunset, payment stops and they're done. If it's due to an injury, especially if it's one suffered while playing in the WNBA, then things get a little more complicated. This is obviously very rare, especially as WNBA contracts are an absolute maximum of four years long. Suffering a major injury, deciding you're not going to be able to come back from it, then retiring - all while still having guaranteed money left on your deal - isn't going to happen often. But it could. |
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5377 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 11/05/21 6:01 pm ::: |
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Queenie wrote: |
"Dump Chiney" seems like the obvious part of any Sparks plan. If you really still need to pay her, she'd probably be just as effective as a sideline reporter. Or in whatever role lets her dress pretty, since for all her Stanford brains, showing off her outfits seems to be what she puts the most effort into. |
True.๐
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 11/05/21 6:19 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
Stormeo wrote: |
Question that I've honestly never known the answer to for sure: If a player retires in the middle of their (guaranteed) contract, do they eventually get paid out the remainder of their contract in some way/shape/form? Or does their contract effectively get terminated/cut short? |
If the player simply chooses to walk off into the sunset, payment stops and they're done. If it's due to an injury, especially if it's one suffered while playing in the WNBA, then things get a little more complicated. This is obviously very rare, especially as WNBA contracts are an absolute maximum of four years long. Suffering a major injury, deciding you're not going to be able to come back from it, then retiring - all while still having guaranteed money left on your deal - isn't going to happen often. But it could. |
Interesting. Thank you! So it remains to be seen what would happen if Chiney were to retire then. She technically did start the season healthy (or, healthy enough), then was injured throughout most of it (albeit not in one continuous absence, but rather broken-up ones), and did appear to end the season injured since she did not play in the final three games.
By "complicated", could it be that the amount she gets potentially paid out is a negotiated figure that's somewhere in between $0 and the prorated amount left on her contract at the time of her retirement? Or would it simply be the one or the other?
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24351 Location: London
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Posted: 11/05/21 7:10 pm ::: |
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If a player got hurt while playing in the WNBA and ultimately had to retire from it, they'd probably get all their guaranteed money. The only questions would be whether it would all end up on the cap, and how much insurance would cover. But I'm more thinking a catastrophic or chronic injury (the example I had in mind was Delle Donne, not Chiney). A general inability to stay healthy like seemed to be the case with Chiney I doubt gets deemed a 'career ending inury' by an independent doctor. So they might agree a buyout, or she might show up and give it a go again like this year while collecting her checks.
I would also mention that occasionally contracts aren't protected for everything. Sometimes teams might protect themselves if there's a known element or preexisting condition that could be expected to cause problems. (ETA: Not saying I know this to be the case with Chiney - I don't remember if there were any caveats to her protection) |
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2815 Location: New York
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Posted: 11/05/21 9:51 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Queenie wrote: |
"Dump Chiney" seems like the obvious part of any Sparks plan. If you really still need to pay her, she'd probably be just as effective as a sideline reporter. Or in whatever role lets her dress pretty, since for all her Stanford brains, showing off her outfits seems to be what she puts the most effort into. |
Her contract is guaranteed. Dumping her doesn't give them any extra cap space. |
Well then-the Sparks deserve whatever happens to them. Why on earth would any team sign her to a guaranteed contract? She's only played a few more games in the W than EDD played scrimmages in her 3 days at UCONN.
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013 Posts: 1364
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Posted: 11/06/21 4:03 am ::: |
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ucbart wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
Queenie wrote: |
"Dump Chiney" seems like the obvious part of any Sparks plan. If you really still need to pay her, she'd probably be just as effective as a sideline reporter. Or in whatever role lets her dress pretty, since for all her Stanford brains, showing off her outfits seems to be what she puts the most effort into. |
Her contract is guaranteed. Dumping her doesn't give them any extra cap space. |
Well then-the Sparks deserve whatever happens to them. Why on earth would any team sign her to a guaranteed contract? She's only played a few more games in the W than EDD played scrimmages in her 3 days at UCONN. |
Devil's Advocate: Chiney has played more games since 2014 than Liz Cambage has.
_________________ Unspoken expectations are just premeditated resentments.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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female-buckets
Joined: 08 Nov 2021 Posts: 32
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Posted: 11/10/21 2:57 am ::: |
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Here's my crazy idea for Seattle and Tina Charles. This is inspired by the fact that Charles just seems like a Storm player. She's a cool focused New Yorker. What's more Storm than that?
1. Keep the Stewie/Russell combo. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
2. Create the Ezi/Charles combo. That's a starting-calibre duo. Who cares whether they're starting or not, right?
3. Both combos play easy minutes. Healthy fresh post players all game long, all season long. If Stewie's ankle is really truly okay and she wants MVP stats, she can slide over to 3 to play minutes with Ezi/Charles. Imagine trying to defend against Stewie, Ezi Magbegor, and Tina Charles. What a nightmare. Are you gonna risk putting your bench in against them? Or run your starters to death? Either way, the Storm wins.
4. Secure backcourt essentials Bird, Loyd, and Prince. The Russell-Loyd-Prince friendship is the social core of the team. You can't win championships without heart.
5. Bird can play easy minutes even if her relief is mediocre because Tina Charles will fix everything. So anyone else can come and go to secure the big 6+Prince.
6. Sweep 2022 post season with the deepest frontcourt in WNBA history.
7. Charles gets 6th woman, a championship ring, and fond memories.
8. Seattle fans get Tina Charles' lovely photography of all our favorite players.
9. Storm retains status as most-hated team for winning too much.
10. If this can't fix our rebound deficit, nothing can.
Why not Stewie/Charles and Ezi/Russell? Because that's boring. It's easy for opponents to plan rotations around that. I'm also not convinced that Stewie/Charles is better than Stewie/Russell.
Last year we tried a 6th woman strategy with the most stubborn player in the league. That backfired horribly. Well, why not do it again with a player who likes trying new things? Like winning a championship? Tina's an eclectic person so I think she might go for it.
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Posts: 1047 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth
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Posted: 11/10/21 4:29 am ::: |
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female-buckets wrote: |
Here's my crazy idea for Seattle and Tina Charles. This is inspired by the fact that Charles just seems like a Storm player. She's a cool focused New Yorker. What's more Storm than that?
1. Keep the Stewie/Russell combo. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
2. Create the Ezi/Charles combo. That's a starting-calibre duo. Who cares whether they're starting or not, right?
3. Both combos play easy minutes. Healthy fresh post players all game long, all season long. If Stewie's ankle is really truly okay and she wants MVP stats, she can slide over to 3 to play minutes with Ezi/Charles. Imagine trying to defend against Stewie, Ezi Magbegor, and Tina Charles. What a nightmare. Are you gonna risk putting your bench in against them? Or run your starters to death? Either way, the Storm wins.
4. Secure backcourt essentials Bird, Loyd, and Prince. The Russell-Loyd-Prince friendship is the social core of the team. You can't win championships without heart.
5. Bird can play easy minutes even if her relief is mediocre because Tina Charles will fix everything. So anyone else can come and go to secure the big 6+Prince.
6. Sweep 2022 post season with the deepest frontcourt in WNBA history.
7. Charles gets 6th woman, a championship ring, and fond memories.
8. Seattle fans get Tina Charles' lovely photography of all our favorite players.
9. Storm retains status as most-hated team for winning too much.
10. If this can't fix our rebound deficit, nothing can.
Why not Stewie/Charles and Ezi/Russell? Because that's boring. It's easy for opponents to plan rotations around that. I'm also not convinced that Stewie/Charles is better than Stewie/Russell.
Last year we tried a 6th woman strategy with the most stubborn player in the league. That backfired horribly. Well, why not do it again with a player who likes trying new things? Like winning a championship? Tina's an eclectic person so I think she might go for it. |
Not bad.....BUT ๐ me thinks, Loyd will be leaving, Russell is coming to Dallas and I don't see a situation where Charles is willing to play on the West Coast.
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female-buckets
Joined: 08 Nov 2021 Posts: 32
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Posted: 11/10/21 5:25 am ::: |
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DFWub2018 wrote: |
female-buckets wrote: |
Here's my crazy idea for Seattle and Tina Charles. This is inspired by the fact that Charles just seems like a Storm player. She's a cool focused New Yorker. What's more Storm than that?
1. Keep the Stewie/Russell combo. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
2. Create the Ezi/Charles combo. That's a starting-calibre duo. Who cares whether they're starting or not, right?
3. Both combos play easy minutes. Healthy fresh post players all game long, all season long. If Stewie's ankle is really truly okay and she wants MVP stats, she can slide over to 3 to play minutes with Ezi/Charles. Imagine trying to defend against Stewie, Ezi Magbegor, and Tina Charles. What a nightmare. Are you gonna risk putting your bench in against them? Or run your starters to death? Either way, the Storm wins.
4. Secure backcourt essentials Bird, Loyd, and Prince. The Russell-Loyd-Prince friendship is the social core of the team. You can't win championships without heart.
5. Bird can play easy minutes even if her relief is mediocre because Tina Charles will fix everything. So anyone else can come and go to secure the big 6+Prince.
6. Sweep 2022 post season with the deepest frontcourt in WNBA history.
7. Charles gets 6th woman, a championship ring, and fond memories.
8. Seattle fans get Tina Charles' lovely photography of all our favorite players.
9. Storm retains status as most-hated team for winning too much.
10. If this can't fix our rebound deficit, nothing can.
Why not Stewie/Charles and Ezi/Russell? Because that's boring. It's easy for opponents to plan rotations around that. I'm also not convinced that Stewie/Charles is better than Stewie/Russell.
Last year we tried a 6th woman strategy with the most stubborn player in the league. That backfired horribly. Well, why not do it again with a player who likes trying new things? Like winning a championship? Tina's an eclectic person so I think she might go for it. |
Not bad.....BUT ๐ me thinks, Loyd will be leaving, Russell is coming to Dallas and I don't see a situation where Charles is willing to play on the West Coast. |
Russell is staying here friend. She likes it here! Her tattoo artist is here. She likes hiking and outdoorsy stuff. You can't hike in Texas lol. The Storm trained Russell from second round to elite in 2 years. We're not gonna let another team reap the benefits of our hard work. Dallas needs to figure out how to train its own players or start sending Tina Charles some love letters.
Also, we just got the best arena in the league and all the practice facilities are getting upgraded. It's looking pretty luxe in Seattle.
Loyd is a tennis player at heart so she's hard to predict. She's all about personal improvement. She was perfect and consistent in 2020. Then she got a little emo about the post-Olympic/post-Dupree shit show. That affected her game, so she feels like she isn't improving. I think she's waiting to hear officially that Sue's staying. If Sue retired, Loyd would want to find another vet to learn from. Someone like Sylvia Fowles. But when she hears Sue's staying for a year, she'll sign a one-year contract and think about the question again next year.
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Posts: 1047 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth
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Posted: 11/10/21 10:37 am ::: |
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female-buckets wrote: |
DFWub2018 wrote: |
female-buckets wrote: |
Here's my crazy idea for Seattle and Tina Charles. This is inspired by the fact that Charles just seems like a Storm player. She's a cool focused New Yorker. What's more Storm than that?
1. Keep the Stewie/Russell combo. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
2. Create the Ezi/Charles combo. That's a starting-calibre duo. Who cares whether they're starting or not, right?
3. Both combos play easy minutes. Healthy fresh post players all game long, all season long. If Stewie's ankle is really truly okay and she wants MVP stats, she can slide over to 3 to play minutes with Ezi/Charles. Imagine trying to defend against Stewie, Ezi Magbegor, and Tina Charles. What a nightmare. Are you gonna risk putting your bench in against them? Or run your starters to death? Either way, the Storm wins.
4. Secure backcourt essentials Bird, Loyd, and Prince. The Russell-Loyd-Prince friendship is the social core of the team. You can't win championships without heart.
5. Bird can play easy minutes even if her relief is mediocre because Tina Charles will fix everything. So anyone else can come and go to secure the big 6+Prince.
6. Sweep 2022 post season with the deepest frontcourt in WNBA history.
7. Charles gets 6th woman, a championship ring, and fond memories.
8. Seattle fans get Tina Charles' lovely photography of all our favorite players.
9. Storm retains status as most-hated team for winning too much.
10. If this can't fix our rebound deficit, nothing can.
Why not Stewie/Charles and Ezi/Russell? Because that's boring. It's easy for opponents to plan rotations around that. I'm also not convinced that Stewie/Charles is better than Stewie/Russell.
Last year we tried a 6th woman strategy with the most stubborn player in the league. That backfired horribly. Well, why not do it again with a player who likes trying new things? Like winning a championship? Tina's an eclectic person so I think she might go for it. |
Not bad.....BUT ๐ me thinks, Loyd will be leaving, Russell is coming to Dallas and I don't see a situation where Charles is willing to play on the West Coast. |
Russell is staying here friend. She likes it here! Her tattoo artist is here. She likes hiking and outdoorsy stuff. You can't hike in Texas lol. The Storm trained Russell from second round to elite in 2 years. We're not gonna let another team reap the benefits of our hard work. Dallas needs to figure out how to train its own players or start sending Tina Charles some love letters.
Also, we just got the best arena in the league and all the practice facilities are getting upgraded. It's looking pretty luxe in Seattle.
Loyd is a tennis player at heart so she's hard to predict. She's all about personal improvement. She was perfect and consistent in 2020. Then she got a little emo about the post-Olympic/post-Dupree shit show. That affected her game, so she feels like she isn't improving. I think she's waiting to hear officially that Sue's staying. If Sue retired, Loyd would want to find another vet to learn from. Someone like Sylvia Fowles. But when she hears Sue's staying for a year, she'll sign a one-year contract and think about the question again next year. |
Awwwwwwhhh....ok, ok, ok....throwing a little shade our way๐. The offers they will both get from other teams, Seattle will not be able to match, so at least one of them, if not both, will be gone.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 11/10/21 2:18 pm ::: |
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I took a closer look at the Seattle situation and it does seem like they have a realistic path toward signing an expensive free agent as well as keeping Russell. However, they have to get all their ducks in a row and it requires some sacrifice. The biggest sacrifice will come from the 12th player because she wonโt have a job anymore. The Storm will have to go with 11 to make this work. Secondly, they have to drop Princeโs $115k contract and replace it with something closer to the veteran minimum of $72k or even lower. After that, if Stewart, Bird, Loyd are willing to take around $200k instead of $228, then you can get a max player while paying Russell $165k. It would look something like this:
Stewart.............. 200,000
Bird................... 200,000
Loyd.................. 200,000
Free Agent.......... 196,267
Russell............... 165,000
KL Samuelson....... 72,141
Magbegor..............60,471
Burke...................72,141
Herbert Harrigan....73,211
#9 pick................ 66,306
Vet on Minimum.... 72,141
Total .............. 1,377,678
Salary Cap....... 1,379,200
Free Cap Space........1,522
Itโs hard to say what Russell is worth in the open market. Looking at players with a similar history of being pseudo starters, last winter Achonwa got an average of $160k while Brionna Jones had to settle for $120k after signing late. Powers received the maximum of $190,550 while Cheyenne Parker signed for slightly less at $185k. The average for those four players is roughly $164, so I penciled in Russell at a roundish $165k.
Obviously, small amounts can be shifted around. For instance, if the free agent took $180k, you could let the Big 3 make $205k or give Russell $180k. You can squeeze out more money by using more minimum salary players, but I figured that a team contending for a championship would want some experience on the bench. However, the option is there if you need to give the Big 3 more money. Anyway, I think this breakdown provides a basic framework that is realistic -- assuming everyone is willing to give a little bit.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 11/10/21 2:25 pm ::: |
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My scenario would give them a little more room: Trade KLS, or Burke, or #9 to the Mystics for Clark. Clark makes 183. This would be a salary dump for the Mystics but they don't really need Clark unless they are positive that EDD is healthy and that they will be contenders. I wouldn't bet on that happening. Storm need Clark more than a random FA, while the Mystics probably need to start a rebuild. (Clark needs to show she's healthy by overseas play.)
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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female-buckets
Joined: 08 Nov 2021 Posts: 32
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Posted: 11/10/21 3:17 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
My scenario would give them a little more room: Trade KLS, or Burke, or #9 to the Mystics for Clark. Clark makes 183. This would be a salary dump for the Mystics but they don't really need Clark unless they are positive that EDD is healthy and that they will be contenders. I wouldn't bet on that happening. Storm need Clark more than a random FA, while the Mystics probably need to start a rebuild. (Clark needs to show she's healthy by overseas play.) |
oh actually this is genius. Tina Charles on the Storm would be absolutely out of left field and that's why I like it. But if we could get Clark back... maybe she'll get a chance to finally win that defensive player of the year award she earned in 2020.
I have a hunch there was maybe an interpersonal situation between Loyd and Clark. But they can just get over it lol I want Clark back. I'm still recovering from the fact the Storm franchise flushed the 2020 dream team.
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craigmont
Joined: 14 Sep 2005 Posts: 981 Location: Bing-town
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Posted: 11/10/21 4:28 pm ::: |
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Stewart and Loyd aren't taking any pay deals. It will take whatever the max dollar is to keep them, and one of them will be cored.
No way do the Mystics take one of those trades for Clark, they just signed her. I don't know anything about a situation with Loyd, but it makes more sense that AC wanted to be closer to home and liked the validation of being a sought-after free agent after working so hard to just stay in the league.
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female-buckets
Joined: 08 Nov 2021 Posts: 32
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Posted: 11/10/21 6:05 pm ::: |
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craigmont wrote: |
Stewart and Loyd aren't taking any pay deals. It will take whatever the max dollar is to keep them, and one of them will be cored.
No way do the Mystics take one of those trades for Clark, they just signed her. I don't know anything about a situation with Loyd, but it makes more sense that AC wanted to be closer to home and liked the validation of being a sought-after free agent after working so hard to just stay in the league. |
Stew said she has unfinished business here and that Seattle's her home. Doesn't that kind of imply she's more motivated to stay here than to leave over 20,000? Between Russia and Puma, I'm sure she makes close to a million a year. She doesn't play in the WNBA for money.
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