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pilight
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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 Posted: 10/18/21 12:52 pm ::: |
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| Ignore me. |
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Coyotes
Joined: 28 Jan 2018
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| Posted: 10/18/21 1:52 pm ::: |
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| I think it’s Tina Charles with Angel McCoughtry in a somewhat distant second, but fascinating to see some of these names on these lists.
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TigerVol
Joined: 16 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 10/18/21 2:52 pm ::: |
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| Best current or best body of work still playing?
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 10/18/21 3:04 pm ::: |
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| As a fan of both the New York Liberty and the New York Knicks, I see a dramatic linkage between Tina Charles and Patrick Ewing. Charles played six seasons in New York without a championship on a team owned by James Dolan. For Ewing, it was 15 seasons. Just part of the damage done under the reign of Hideous Lord Jimmy.
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Stormeo
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 10/18/21 3:37 pm ::: |
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| TigerVol wrote: |
| Best current or best body of work still playing? |
It's active players. Becky Hammon is the highest scoring retired player to never win a championship with 5841 points, good for 14th overall, and the only one in the Top 25.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 10/18/21 4:17 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| I mean at this point, Tina Charles & Angel McCoughtry should try to see if they can sign with the same team, even if they have to take slight discounts each. They’re the two best longtime vets without a title right now, so kill two birds with one stone. |
As long as it's not Seattle. #HateHard
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ChicagoAnnie
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
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| Posted: 10/18/21 5:05 pm ::: |
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What's so different about Tina Charles that she doesn't get heat from W fans for not being able to lead a team to a title after all of these years. She's obviously future HOF, but that dialog never seems to find her.
(Not trying to fight, I'm just curious).
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pilight
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| Posted: 10/18/21 5:14 pm ::: |
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| ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
What's so different about Tina Charles that she doesn't get heat from W fans for not being able to lead a team to a title after all of these years. She's obviously future HOF, but that dialog never seems to find her.
(Not trying to fight, I'm just curious). |
She's a UConn legend and UConn fans never criticize their own
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/18/21 5:57 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
What's so different about Tina Charles that she doesn't get heat from W fans for not being able to lead a team to a title after all of these years. She's obviously future HOF, but that dialog never seems to find her.
(Not trying to fight, I'm just curious). |
She's a UConn legend and UConn fans never criticize their own |
A majority of the board aren’t UConn fans..
IMO, because she’s not in the tier of player that it’s expected from. She’s a great player, but was never a player dubbed “savior of the league”
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 10/18/21 6:05 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
What's so different about Tina Charles that she doesn't get heat from W fans for not being able to lead a team to a title after all of these years. She's obviously future HOF, but that dialog never seems to find her.
(Not trying to fight, I'm just curious). |
She's a UConn legend and UConn fans never criticize their own |
Charles' teams have made the playoffs in 5 of her 11 seasons in the league, and never made it to a Finals - the only Top 25 scorer not to. Her teams have finished the regular season 1st in the Eastern Conference all 5 times she has gone to the playoffs, including 2015 when they were the #1 seed. They would lose in the leagues last Eastern Conference Finals to Indiana, and her teams are 0-2 in single elimination games since 2016.
I would propose that the reason she's never won a championship is the same reason why she has the scoring numbers she has: She's usually by far the best player on bad or mediocre teams.
Edit: Corrected her single elimination record.
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Last edited by PickledGinger on 10/18/21 9:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/18/21 6:18 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Charles' teams have made the playoffs in 5 of her 11 seasons in the league, and never made it to a Finals - the only Top 25 scorer not to |
5 out of 11 is pretty bad in a league where 2/3 of the teams make the playoffs each year.
23 of the top 25 scorers have made the finals multiple times.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 10/18/21 7:20 pm ::: |
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In her prime years in NY
the second and third best players on her team were
Nurse, Prince, Hatley or Sugar Rodgers take your pick (technically she did have that one season with Pondexter but that wasn't a good year so I am not counting it. At least with the years with Nurse the Liberty had strong regular seasons)
compare that to the four teams in the semis this year
Parker, Sloot, Copper, Quigley
Griner, Taurasi, Diggins-Smith-Smith, Turner
J. Jones, Bonner, A. Thomas, B. Jones
Wilson, C. Gray, Cambage, Plum
or other top teams
Fowles, Collier, McBride
Stewart, Loyd, Bird
Charles' team in Washington this year was a little better talent-wise with Atkins and Hines-Allen rounding out the top three but that still doesn't compare to the talent the other top teams and players are working with. Now if a healthy EDD and Clark were on board who know?
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 10/18/21 7:26 pm ::: |
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| maybe we can kill two birds with one stone if Cambage doesn't return and Angel and Charles team up with Aja, C. Gray, Plum and Bill in Las Vegas.
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 10/18/21 9:47 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| maybe we can kill two birds with one stone if Cambage doesn't return and Angel and Charles team up with Aja, C. Gray, Plum and Bill in Las Vegas. |
That'd actually be a good idea for Charles. She'd definitely have to take more of a complimentary role, but she might not get there otherwise.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 10/18/21 10:34 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
In her prime years in NY
the second and third best players on her team were
Nurse, Prince, Hatley or Sugar Rodgers take your pick (technically she did have that one season with Pondexter but that wasn't a good year so I am not counting it. At least with the years with Nurse the Liberty had strong regular seasons)
compare that to the four teams in the semis this year
Parker, Sloot, Copper, Quigley
Griner, Taurasi, Diggins-Smith-Smith, Turner
J. Jones, Bonner, A. Thomas, B. Jones
Wilson, C. Gray, Cambage, Plum
or other top teams
Fowles, Collier, McBride
Stewart, Loyd, Bird
Charles' team in Washington this year was a little better talent-wise with Atkins and Hines-Allen rounding out the top three but that still doesn't compare to the talent the other top teams and players are working with. Now if a healthy EDD and Clark were on board who know? |
And in her years with CT, the best teammates Charles had were Rene Montgomery, Asjha Jones, Kara Lawson, and Allison Hightower.
I still remember the one season Charles shared with Pondexter. Laura Ramus sent Cappie hobbling on to the court with a different tape job every game. It was like art with Cappie's legs being some kind of sculptural medium.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 10/18/21 11:58 pm ::: |
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| ChicagoAnnie wrote: |
What's so different about Tina Charles that she doesn't get heat from W fans for not being able to lead a team to a title after all of these years. She's obviously future HOF, but that dialog never seems to find her.
(Not trying to fight, I'm just curious). |
A great player, but has never seen as the face of a franchise type player. For example some players when drafted they are expected to lead their teams a championship often as rookies and by time their careers are over they should have multiple rings (Diana Taurasi, Candace Parker) and anything less is a failure. Tina Charles hasn't been seen as that type of player, I think she has flown under the radar in that regard because of the great players in the league that surround her. She has quietly played her game and had a great career while other players such as Diana, Candace, Sylvia Fowles, A'ja Wilson, etc have gotten most of the attention and more of the "pressure" to win a title.
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threadkiller1201
Joined: 19 Sep 2005
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| Posted: 10/19/21 1:01 am ::: |
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| Tina Charles
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/19/21 9:31 am ::: |
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| All of this talk about Tina Charles, when the correct answer is Angel McCoughtry.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/19/21 10:42 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Charles' teams have made the playoffs in 5 of her 11 seasons in the league, and never made it to a Finals - the only Top 25 scorer not to |
5 out of 11 is pretty bad in a league where 2/3 of the teams make the playoffs each year.
23 of the top 25 scorers have made the finals multiple times. |
Interestingly, all of the top 25 scorers have had another top 25 scorer as a teammate for part of their career, often more than one. Even Hammon snuck in.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 10/19/21 10:54 am ::: |
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| Who is the "best player never" seems to depend on whether you believe that the better player is the one who was able to elevate a mediocre group of players enough to lead them to the Finals three times, but never actually win a game, or the player who won a regular season MVP, but never even made it to the Finals, and hasn't succeeded in making her teammates better, at all.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 10/19/21 10:57 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Charles' teams have made the playoffs in 5 of her 11 seasons in the league, and never made it to a Finals - the only Top 25 scorer not to |
5 out of 11 is pretty bad in a league where 2/3 of the teams make the playoffs each year.
23 of the top 25 scorers have made the finals multiple times. |
Interestingly, all of the top 25 scorers have had another top 25 scorer as a teammate for part of their career, often more than one. Even Hammon snuck in. |
I feel like half a season with the ghost of Swin Cash barely counts.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 10/19/21 11:29 am ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Who is the "best player never" seems to depend on whether you believe that the better player is the one who was able to elevate a mediocre group of players enough to lead them to the Finals three times, but never actually win a game, or the player who won a regular season MVP, but never even made it to the Finals, and hasn't succeeded in making her teammates better, at all. |
Think about how different this conversation would if Catchings had won the MVP she deserved in 2012 and McCoughtry had won the one she deserved in 2013.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/19/21 11:57 am ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| Charles' teams have made the playoffs in 5 of her 11 seasons in the league, and never made it to a Finals - the only Top 25 scorer not to |
5 out of 11 is pretty bad in a league where 2/3 of the teams make the playoffs each year.
23 of the top 25 scorers have made the finals multiple times. |
Interestingly, all of the top 25 scorers have had another top 25 scorer as a teammate for part of their career, often more than one. Even Hammon snuck in. |
I feel like half a season with the ghost of Swin Cash barely counts. |
That's still more than Hammon got.
Angel also got the last dregs of Delisha Milton.
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