RebKell's Junkie Boards

[Ex-Ref]

Not sure where I fall on this. I think that I'm leaning to not liking it, but I might change my mind when/if more details come out.

[pilight]

It's pretty transparently a scheme to spend less money on the women's tournament

_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home

[undersized_post]

[Queenie]

It seems like a terrible idea to me. You're limiting the potential host cities, because they have to have both a domed football stadium for the men and an acceptable arena for the women that isn't booked by an NBA team/NHL team/concerts/Disney on Ice/literally anything else apparently, plus practice facilities for both sets of teams, plus enough hotel space for both sets of teams, officials, traveling parties, fans, et al. (Incidentally, you're knocking out the possibility of many of the most common WFF sites, and forget the pipe dream of a WFF convenient to most WBB fan bases.) You're guaranteeing that everything is going to have the prices super jacked up to take advantage of the MBB fans. How much you wanna bet some shady reseller's gonna run a scam by buying up WFF tickets and fleecing MBB fans for them, and then it's gonna hit the fan?

(Also, while WCBB's fan base doesn't overlap much with the WNBA's demographics {and not nearly as much as it should, but that's another novel}, it is still a different demographic than MCBB, and boy howdy do I not want that culture clash, especially if it's a blue city in a red state.)

And do we really think WBB teams are going to get the exact same access and treatment that the MBB teams do even if they have the same facilities? For how many years have we heard stories about MBB calling dibs on all the good practice times and WBB getting stuck with the oddball hours? Does anyone think it's magically going to be done correctly? By this organization? When about the only thing you can say about the NCAA is that it couldn't find its collective ass with both hands, a flashlight, a road map, and a proctologist?

Maybe we'd get lucky. Maybe we'd get more stories of "I accidentally a women's game and now I like it" than we do horror stories. Maybe consolidating the operational costs would allow the NCAA to furnish and run one good weight room (and other ancillary facilities) and make sure it's used properly. Maybe the joint branding would allow for supporters of both MBB and WBB to cross over and support each other. But I don't find it bloody likely.

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Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.

[Hoopsmom]

I’m torn on this. I know the women deserve to have their own venue, their own hype, and not be the “warm-up act” for the men’s show. However, there are a lot of things that go along with the Final Four that the women have always been denied. The hype around the three-point contest, the slam dunk contest, concerts, and other events that are held in the host city. It brings in a lot of fans for all of the fun things. We hosted here in Minneapolis for the men a few years ago, and there was a lot of hype everywhere you looked. I went to one of the practice sessions, and the line to get in was about 6 blocks long. The place was packed, and it was like a total carnival / event inside the arena. For practice. We are hosting the women this season, and there’s nary a word mentioned downtown Minneapolis where I work. Men’s players are allowed to compete in those competitions, and fans can go to the events. Women’s players are not included if they are competing in the Final Four, because they are in a different city.

[purduefanatic]

My god, I feel like some of you would have an issue if they put every player and coach of every team in their own massive suite, paid them each a bar of gold, gave them all new cars while feeding them filet mignon. The pessimism and negativity is strong...

That said, I too have concerns about them being the warm-up to the main event. But, on the flip side (as hoopsmom alluded to), the hype and energy surrounding the women's Final Four is nothing compared to that of the men. And it doesn't matter what is done by the NCAA or the host city, that won't change any time soon. As someone that has been to both events, they are night and day. The women's teams and fans would thoroughly enjoy the atmosphere. It is simply electric around the city for days.

Interestingly, Coach V of Stanford said she wouldn't have a problem with the women's games being held in an 18-20k seat arena while the men were in a dome. I can only imagine the response from some in here as well as in the twittersphere if they NCAA did that lol. You guys would have a conniption. But it would be for the best...a sold out arena with 20k vs a massive dome with 25-30k would be much better for the women, esp as the game tries to grow.

Lastly, as someone else mentioned, it would severely limit the number of locales that the women's FF could be held, just like the men. They are basically playing in areas that have NFL teams with enclosed stadiums as those are really the only ones (Alamodome is an exception - hosts FBS football) big enough. I'm not sure how many cities that have both but I do know Indianapolis, Dallas, Minneapolis, Phoenix have both facilities. Las Vegas has the brand new Raiders stadium and plenty of other places to hose basketball in that city. I don't know about any city in Florida or California that has both a massive football stadium that is enclosed along with another 18-20k seat facility. I am not including college arenas as I don't think we want the women's Final Four being held on a college campus.

Anyway, I'm sure there might be others but the number of cities that can do it from a facility standpoint, a hotel standpoint, etc is extremely small.

[pilight]

[Hoopsmom]

[purduefanatic]

[GlennMacGrady]

This recommendation comes directly from a report commissioned by the NCAA to improve equity between men's and women's basketball.

[Hoopsmom]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_covered_stadiums_by_capacity

There are quite a few domed stadiums in this country, more than I expected. However, you also have to look at hotel capacity and other facilities around the area. But I agree, it would be a worthwhile for experiment for at least three years. The women deserve the hype in the attention. And maybe some of those uneducated jerks that constantly post that “any women’s team could be beaten by any good high school men’s team” will have their eyes opened….

[pilight]

You really think the women will get more hype or attention with the men playing in the same city at the same time? The women will be a side show at best. You're already talking about moving them to another arena so the men's teams won't get cooties. You think the high and mighty basketball writers here to cover the men's tournament are going to schlep across town on their off day to watch girls? Surely you don't believe media organizations are going to send extra people to the same location. They'll see a chance to cut costs by having one cover both, and it won't the one that's familiar with WCBB.

There is no value to holding both FFs in the same city.

_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home

[Howee]

[mzonefan]

My first thought was the hotel prices would probably be higher than what the market would bear for WBB on its own.

Detroit has 65,000 Ford Field (Lions) a mile away from 22,300 Little Caesar’s Arena (Pistons/Red Wings).

[Ex-Ref]

[Queenie]

*nods* My experience with MBB/WBB doubleheaders as a fan (at St. John's, at Seton Hall, at LIU, at Fordham) is the same. If you put the men first, the MBB fans pretty much all leave as soon as the MBB game is done. If you put the women first, the MBB fans wander in in the middle of the WBB game without regard to the fact that people might be watching it. And in either case, the ticket prices get jacked up (and it gets even stickier if WBB is general admission and MBB is assigned seating, or if you're a team guest and the benches are reversed between games).

Some of that is not germane to the point, but the concept remains: if MBB fans are placed in a position where they think they're being forced to pay attention to WBB, 90% of the time... they won't; if arrangements for MBB and WBB clash, the arrangements for WBB must give way to arrangements for MBB. It is passing rare that, in a situation where MBB and WBB are sharing anything, that MBB will surrender even equal space to WBB (which is what makes the Suns/Merc doubleheader truly remarkable).

This is what some of us are worried about: we, as WBB fans, which I assume we all are here because otherwise why are you here, will see WBB get all the negatives of the MBB experience without its positives.

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Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.

[awhom111]

As somebody who has been to both and spent a lot of years planning for one or the other, the prices and availability of lodging are not really close.

It may or may not benefit the players, but it will not benefit fans of women's basketball and would also make it a lot harder for some of the other industry folks who go to the WBCA and other similar conventions that traditionally happen at the same time. Having met a number of fans who have gone multiple years, it would be a shame to price some of these people out or, especially for the older fans, take away access to some of the hotels closest to the arena that are have historically been available to the general public.

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https://wbasketballblog.com/author/awhom111/

[huskiemaniac]

NEINE! NEINE! NEINE! 1000 times NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


So what happened, someone said- "let me come up with an idea that's even WORSE than holding the S16 in the same city"?????....I GOT IT- hold both FFs in the same city, SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Holy shit...

[readyAIMfire53]

[Hoopsmom]

The problem with that is that in terms of sponsors, more hype equals more money. More outside events, including concerts and other hype events, equals more fans, which turns into more money. Thus, the men are treated like kings, and the women got the leftovers. In terms of hotels, facilities, weight rooms, food they were served (The men had huge buffets, and the women were handed a pre-packed meal that was often cold and gross - The coaches were having to order food from local restaurants to supplement) , and swag bags as you can see in the picture links below. The men received tons of stuff, including a very nice throw blanket. The woman got a T-shirt, socks, and an sweat towel.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Gzyd1qo9UUQ798eF8
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ew0FH8CUUAEpvLo.jpg

[pilight]

[Hoopsmom]

I’ve read all of your comments, and some are saying that as long time fans, it would be harder for you, or not not hold as much interest for you to do all the hype or do anything like that. Well I don’t claim to know the answer, I think we do have to change something. Aren’t we trying to grow the fan base? Don’t we want to discover new fans in addition to the old fans? I think they need to find a balance, because a lot of the fans of women’s basketball are older. When I go to the Lynx games, I see a lot of older people, mostly women, and not as many younger people. We need to change the perception, get the younger people involved, catch the girls when they are in travel ball, high school ball, and as they grow older they bring their boyfriends and husbands. That is how we’re going to change the perception and show some of these macho guys that yes, this is a sport, and these are very good athletes.

[Howee]

[pilight]

Val Ackerman talks ideas to elevate women’s basketball to next level in light of NCAA’s gender inequities

[purduefanatic]