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Bob Lamm · Posted: 05/01/21 6:21 pm :::

So I'm trying to assess who's on the current Liberty roster (20 players), who is in training camp at the moment (15 players), who should be returning while camp is proceeding (three players), and the rest. I believe I've got this right; please correct me if I'm wrong anywhere.

Nayo Raincocke-Ekunwe has been discussed by us but isn't on the Liberty roster. Neither are Paris Kea or Marine Fauthoux.

Han Xu has been suspended for the season.

Asia Durr is still on the roster but unlikely to play this season.

Marine Johannes is still on the roster but it's unclear if she'll play for the Liberty this season.

Benijah Lacey, Natasha Howard, and Kiah Stokes are still playing overseas and aren't in training camp yet.

These 15 players are presumably in training camp: Rebecca Allen, Jocelyn Willoughby, Michaela Onyehwere, Leanna Odom, Joyner Holmes, Valerie Higgins, Asia Taylor, Jasmine Bailey, Kylie Shook, Janelle Bailey, Sabrina Ionescu, Jazmine Jones, Layshia Clarendon, Sami Whitcomb, and Didi Richards.

So seemingly three of those players will be cut during training camp as Lacey, Howard, and Stokes return to maintain the maximum of 15 in training camp.

Then by the end of camp at least three more players will have to be cut to get down to the limit for the regular season of 12. Unless the Liberty can work out some sort of arrangement involving Asia Durr, four players out of the 15 will have to be cut.

And the Liberty will still have to resolve the situation with Marine Johannes.

Is all of that correct? Most of it? Some of it? Smile

Thanks for any help, including needed corrections.

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root_thing · Posted: 05/01/21 7:37 pm :::

Howard, Allen, and Stokes are still overseas. Laney's team got eliminated, so she should be on her way back if not already in Brooklyn. I believe Stokes is the one most at risk of missing games because her team was still waiting to play the last time I looked. Howard could arrive late-ish. Depending on how long she has to wait for COVID testing/protocol, as well as whether they'd throw her out there with no/minimal practice, there's a chance Howard could miss a game too.

Durr and Johannes are on the "real" roster but not in camp. What I mean is that the Liberty have 13 players with regular contracts who count against the salary cap right now. NY is at the cap to the dollar (penny?). Note that 1st Round pick Onyenwere is not one of the 13. To me, the sensible decision is to suspend Johannes for the year so that Onyenwere can be inserted in her place. That still leaves you with 13 players, but at least you gain a useful one. Alternatively, NY could cut two players -- say, Odom and Willoughby -- and then add Onyenwere with no cuts left. Yes, you end up with 12 players, but two of them -- Johannes and Durr -- will miss at least two-thirds of the season and maybe never play at all. Personally, I don't think they're worth the risk or the wait. Ideally, we could get both players off the roster and even better if we could get them off the cap too. It can be done with Johannes at the team's discretion. Richyyy pointed out that they have to wait 14 days to do it without her permission, but that runs out before cutdown day. Durr's situation is more complicated and currently an unknown. Last season she received a medical opt-out, which got her off the roster. She was paid and stayed on the cap, but last year New York had lots of cap space and it wasn't an issue. This year, we've heard nothing about opt-outs. So, Durr is currently a roster problem and also a bit of a cap burden.

In answer to your original question, there are probably 14 players in camp right now -- 15 if Laney has arrived and passed testing. Looking ahead, if Stokes and Howard aren't ready, then the Liberty can conceivably start the season with just one post player -- Kylee Shook. An early true test for small ball. Laughing

Actually, if I recall correctly, something similar happened to LA within recent memory. Anyway, this is where replacing Johannes with Onyenwere can also help. That switch creates $2,832 in cap space. It's enough to pay a player like Holmes or Janelle Bailey for 6 days. The Liberty play 3 games in the first 5 days of the season. Assuming they resolve their 13-player roster problem by then, NY could temporarily suspend Stokes, and insert Holmes/Bailey in her place for 3 games.

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Bob Lamm · Posted: 05/01/21 7:47 pm :::

root_thing · Posted: 05/01/21 9:47 pm :::

Bob Lamm · Posted: 05/01/21 10:14 pm :::

Thanks. I thought Allen being officially added to the roster had meant that she was there. Obviously I had it wrong.

It's very unfortunate, especially given all that happened last season, that the Liberty's training camp is proceeding with some key players not being there, two of them new to the team. But this is the WNBA in 2021.

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Richyyy · Posted: 05/02/21 9:07 am :::

Spanish finals just got extended to a final game, which is on Thursday. So Allen might just barely clear testing and quarantine protocols before opening day, if she flies over virtually immediately.

Turkish semis finally finish tomorrow, and then we should at least get a schedule for what I presume is a best-of-five finals (featuring Stokes, Sabally, McBride, JThomas, Vaughn and either EPrince/Russell or Peddy/Hebard).

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Randy · Posted: 05/02/21 10:04 am :::

Queenie · Posted: 05/02/21 11:03 am :::

I don't think Nayo re-signed, nor do I think Marine Fauthoux has signed her rookie deal yet?

Paris Kea tore her ACL, IIRC, and is probably unavailable for the season. She was running at least one camp in the offseason, so maybe she's getting paid that way, but I don't think she's going to materialize on the roster this year.

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Bob Lamm · Posted: 05/02/21 12:15 pm :::

Shades · Posted: 05/02/21 12:36 pm :::

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Bob Lamm · Posted: 05/02/21 7:41 pm :::

Laney has arrived in training camp.

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root_thing · Posted: 05/03/21 12:06 am :::

It looks like Howard will definitely miss games. The Italian final is a 3 of 5 series. Per awhom111, games 3-5 are on the 11th, 13th, and 16th. From what I can tell, testing/quarantine is at least 3 days but less than a week. I'm guessing 4-5 days. Even if Venezia finishes on the 11th and Howard gets on a plane on the 12th, I don't think she starts testing/quarantine until the 13th. She'll miss at least two games. As of now, it looks like Howard and Stokes definitely miss time and Allen squeaks in at the end of camp.

Howard is listed at 6-2 165. Richards is listed as 6-2 164. Maybe Didi makes the team as a post player. Laughing

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root_thing · Posted: 05/03/21 11:04 pm :::

It looks like Turkey will have the same possible end dates as Italy: May 11, 13 or 16. As an estimate for travel, testing, and quarantine time, Laney finished on a Sunday and arrived in camp the following Sunday. So, assuming a week from the day play finishes, the worst case scenario for both Howard and Stokes is if they finish on the 16th, which leads to availability on the 23rd. The complication here is that the Liberty are in Chicago playing a 1:00 afternoon game. I suppose the team could fly out the day before while Howard and Stokes follow the next morning. I'm not sure what the rules are for getting on a plane.

If Howard and Stokes can play in Chicago that day, they will have missed 4 games each. If not, then it's 5 games. That appears to be the worst case scenario for the Liberty. The best case is if both players finish on the 11th, leading to availability on the 18th. New York plays a home game against Minnesota that night at 7:00. Under that scenario, Howard and Stokes will only miss two games.

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J-Spoon · Posted: 05/04/21 12:31 am :::

opening night roster?

Ionescu/Clarendon
Jones/Whitcomb
Laney/Onyenwere
Allen/Willoughby
Shook/Holmes

If Durr is opt out and Johannes is suspended
Odom
Richards

What is interesting about the Howard/Stokes late arrivals is

Shook and Holmes can get serious audition time (last year Stokes and Zahui B got tons of minutes so not sure how small Hopkins is willing to go)

and Coach and Management might be able to really do a deep dive on small ball options with Allen and/or Willoughby at the 5 and Onyenwere, Richards and Laney at the 4 if they want to see how that looks/works in an actual game or two for extended minutes (definitely untested in seeing the (Ionescu, Whitcomb, Laney, Onyenwere, Allen line up)

root_thing · Posted: 05/04/21 2:11 am :::

Nothing Kolb and Hopkins do surprises me anymore. I wouldn't totally rule out Asia Taylor and Janelle Bailey. They've appeared at press conferences while Holmes hasn't. I've also seen more of them in those short practice videos. It may mean nothing, but if so then the PR Department is making some odd choices.

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J-Spoon · Posted: 05/04/21 4:54 am :::

Richyyy · Posted: 05/04/21 9:05 am :::

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Asia Taylor is, skill-for-skill, a better player than some of the other options in Liberty camp. I've actually always liked her, she's one of those players who makes things happen with her sheer level of activity and effort, but has always fallen down that 3/4 tweener hole at WNBA level. But she's also already 29, and wasn't drafted by this front office. Which probably works against her.

This is also one of the teams where the opening day roster probably isn't going to be the 12 for most of the season. With Stokes and Howard likely arriving late there could well be a temp replacement (unless they're already using any spare cap space for a 13th player). So as always, don't get too stuck on who makes the initial 12. Someone like Holmes could well get cut and still be there for them to pick back up later in the season if their needs change or they give up on someone else.

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root_thing · Posted: 05/04/21 9:18 am :::

The key question is how they handle Durr. If the team can’t get Durr off the cap, then they can’t afford substitute players for both Howard and Stokes. All they’ll have is the $2832 from replacing Johannes with Onyenwere. That’s good for 6 days of Holmes or Janelle Bailey, or 5 days of Richards or Taylor. Either way, NY plays 3 games during that stretch, so you get one replacement for 3 games. On the other hand, if the league allows them to use some kind of dodgy maneuver to remove Durr from the cap, then there's a lot more space to play with. Carrying two substitutes becomes possible even for the worst case scenario, which is missing both Howard and Stokes for five games.

I intentionally used the word “substitute” and not “replacement” player. So far, I'm talking about NY creating enough cap space so that they can temporarily suspend players and substitute people on regular contracts until the suspended players return. Afterward they can decide who they want to cut as opposed to having to jettison specific replacement players. Now, if the Liberty were to keep Durr and/or Johannes on the roster, then that combined with Howard and Stokes being out would get them into Emergency Hardship territory. However, I don’t want to discuss every permutation of roster spot and cap space because it would take all day.

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Richyyy · Posted: 05/04/21 9:29 am :::

Having a few grand extra doesn't let you keep an extra player. You'd be suspending a player - hence keeping their entire salary on the cap - and would then need room for the entire salary of the extra player. You can't have an extra player on the roster (or suspended) on the expectation that you're going to cut them in time to fit into a sliver of cap space. And seven-day contracts don't become an option until the midpoint of the season.

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myrtle · Posted: 05/04/21 11:15 am :::

root_thing · Posted: 05/04/21 11:21 am :::

Stormeo · Posted: 05/04/21 11:43 am :::

root_thing · Posted: 05/04/21 1:04 pm :::

New York Liberty open preseason with closed scrimmage against Conneticut Sun

Bob Lamm · Posted: 05/04/21 1:43 pm :::

Thanks, root_thing, for posting all this.

Apparently the box score of the scrimmage isn't public. But the article linked here says that Jackie Powell got a box score! I followed that link to a twitter page where Powell says she has the box score, but I still didn't see it. Perhaps someone else can find it.

The Liberty starters were Odom and Onyenwere at forward, Shook at center, Willoughby and Whitcomb at guard. The Powell page I saw says that Jazmine Jones was the top scorer on the night: 12 points on 4-10 shooting. Whitcomb scored nine points on 2-6 shooting, including 2-3 on three-pointers.

Powell was impressed with Onyenwere, a rookie, playing at the four and taking 10 shots. She wrote "That's guts." If you listen to Walt Hopkins in the interview, he sounds impressed with Onyenwere as well.

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root_thing · Posted: 05/04/21 2:16 pm :::

No Ionescu, no Laney, no Howard, no Stokes, no Allen. That's at least 4 starters and a high bench player missing from the scrimmage. Of course, Howard and Stokes won't be available for the actual start of the season. Meanwhile, praise for Higgins and Onyenwere. Not sure what to make of it all.

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