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sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 04/27/06 12:37 pm ::: |
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two names make me go "hmmmm" because others strike me as more worthy. and i could add hammon to the list. i know she's wildly popular in new york. (or was, or maybe i've been brainwashed, but league-wide?) and popular could do it.
the two players giving me pause are tamecka dixon and delisha milton. moreso the former.
i would've felt comfortable seeing any of these names, because they were good, they made an impact, they were extremely popular, one of a kind, set a new standard for her position, represents the diversity that is the wnba, etc., etc., in no particular order:
kim perrot (how can you have an award in her name and not name her?)
wendy palmer
cheryl ford
nikki teasley
michele timms
penny taylor (she always, always gets ignored)
brandy reed
debbie black
merlakia jones
tari phillips
nikki mccray (never even liked her that much, but very popular and the first, i think, abl player to cross over)
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/27/06 12:39 pm ::: |
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| pilight, there is no way on god's green earth that you leave out jen gillom. put down the crack pipe right now!
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caune
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 12:51 pm ::: |
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| sebibb wrote: |
| pilight, there is no way on god's green earth that you leave out jen gillom. put down the crack pipe right now! |
Thanks for saying that Bibb, it needed to be said!
And I'd take Taurasi off and put Timmsy in because she is an international legend and was soo good for the league in the "early years"
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CamrnCrz1974
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 12:55 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
| And I'd take Taurasi off and put Timmsy in because she is an international legend and was soo good for the league in the "early years" |
International legend shouldn't matter for the WNBA. Timmsy was good in the W, but past her prime.
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suemar
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
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Location: Norfolk Va
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| Posted: 04/27/06 12:59 pm ::: |
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| sebibb wrote: |
two names make me go "hmmmm" because others strike me as more worthy. and i could add hammon to the list. i know she's wildly popular in new york. (or was, or maybe i've been brainwashed, but league-wide?) and popular could do it.
the two players giving me pause are tamecka dixon and delisha milton. moreso the former.
i would've felt comfortable seeing any of these names, because they were good, they made an impact, they were extremely popular, one of a kind, set a new standard for her position, represents the diversity that is the wnba, etc., etc., in no particular order:
kim perrot (how can you have an award in her name and not name her?)
wendy palmer
cheryl ford
nikki teasley
michele timms
penny taylor (she always, always gets ignored)
brandy reed
debbie black
merlakia jones
tari phillips
nikki mccray (never even liked her that much, but very popular and the first, i think, abl player to cross over) |
Speaking of crack pipes.....Brandy Reed    I dont get this name at all.
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sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 1:20 pm ::: |
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| suemar wrote: |
| sebibb wrote: |
two names make me go "hmmmm" because others strike me as more worthy. and i could add hammon to the list. i know she's wildly popular in new york. (or was, or maybe i've been brainwashed, but league-wide?) and popular could do it.
the two players giving me pause are tamecka dixon and delisha milton. moreso the former.
i would've felt comfortable seeing any of these names, because they were good, they made an impact, they were extremely popular, one of a kind, set a new standard for her position, represents the diversity that is the wnba, etc., etc., in no particular order:
kim perrot (how can you have an award in her name and not name her?)
wendy palmer
cheryl ford
nikki teasley
michele timms
penny taylor (she always, always gets ignored)
brandy reed
debbie black
merlakia jones
tari phillips
nikki mccray (never even liked her that much, but very popular and the first, i think, abl player to cross over) |
Speaking of crack pipes.....Brandy Reed I dont get this name at all. |
brandy reed was a hella player, when she wasn't on her own pipe. she raised the bar. plus, she was the object of noticeable protest at the 2000 all-star game in phoenix, where the arena was dotted with placards bearing her name. the protest was significant enough to have her put on the all-star roster at the last minute. part of the objection was that phoenix was the host but the only team without an asg representative, but others thought she, specifically, deserved to be on the asg roster.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/wnba/news/2000/07/14/reed_allstar/
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 1:28 pm ::: |
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I still don't understand why no one is disputing Nolan belongs.
5 years, career under 40% shooter. Only 3 years scored in double figures, first two years were 7.1 and 8.7. Assist/Turnover ratio of only 1.21. Good steals, 1.31 career.
Why does she deserve to be Top 30 over some of the others listed in this thread?
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sgbur22
Joined: 01 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 04/27/06 1:31 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
I still don't understand why no one is disputing Nolan belongs.
5 years, career under 40% shooter. Only 3 years scored in double figures, first two years were 7.1 and 8.7. Assist/Turnover ratio of only 1.21. Good steals, 1.31 career.
Why does she deserve to be Top 30 over some of the others listed in this thread? |
I AGREE 100%
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 1:58 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
I still don't understand why no one is disputing Nolan belongs.
5 years, career under 40% shooter. Only 3 years scored in double figures, first two years were 7.1 and 8.7. Assist/Turnover ratio of only 1.21. Good steals, 1.31 career.
Why does she deserve to be Top 30 over some of the others listed in this thread? |
She steps up in a big way come playoff time. I think she's better than her numbers.
Dawn Staley is a career sub-40% shooter and has scored in double figures only one season. She's got a better ATO than Nolan but about half the rebounds. Nolan has been All WNBA twice, Staley has never been All league. Nolan made the All Defensive team, Staley didn't. Nolan has a ring, Staley doesn't.
What makes Staley a lock and Nolan questionable?
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sambista
Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 2:07 pm ::: |
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apart from pilight's breakdown on nolan - interesting comparison to staley, who would never be questioned - don't you think some of this is about intangibles? gut reaction? plain old touchy-feely free associaton? i mean, who wasn't talking about nolan's game the last coupla years? she has represented what is exciting about the wnba. who didn't want to see her hops when she tried to dunk at the reservation?
tamecka dixon, otoh . . . well, i can't think of anything at all to say about her except that she was on the team that won the championship one year.
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MT_Swoopes
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 2:09 pm ::: |
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| It's going to be real hard picking 10. I made my picks in the other thread. It's really tough when you take into account leadership, individual success and the length of individual and team success within that ten-year span. When taking all of those things into account, it will be hard to omit Weatherspoon from the team. SHE LED her team to countless championship finals and has won multiple defensive player of the year awards. She's maintained her level of play for most of the ten years. The only thing that separated Griffith and Jackson was a ring. Now, that Griffith has a ring, THERE WAS NO WAY, I would leave her out of the top five. She's done everything from MVP to DPOY to Championship title. She's also the best offensive rebounder I have ever seen. Penichiero is a tricky one too, cause her offense is a little less worse than T-Spoon (okay, not that bad). Penichiero (like Spoon) is the quintessential point guard and everything a coach wants in a floor general. She now has the ring to go with her assist titles, and she has always been a solid defender. I simply picked her over Weatherspoon, because of the ring.
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dtsnms
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 2:11 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
Dawn Staley is a career sub-40% shooter and has scored in double figures only one season. She's got a better ATO than Nolan but about half the rebounds. Nolan has been All WNBA twice, Staley has never been All league. Nolan made the All Defensive team, Staley didn't. Nolan has a ring, Staley doesn't.
What makes Staley a lock and Nolan questionable? |
A substantial difference in assist to turnover - Dawn's is over 2 per game.
Staley ranks among career leaders in total assists, assists per game, assists per turnover, free throw percentage, three-point field goals made, steals and points. Three time All Star. Two gold medals in the time she was in the league, three total.
If you factor in an assist as being two points for your team, and add those to the PPG, since Dawn shoots considerably less than Nolan (average of almost 100 shots per year over the careers), Nolan contributes 17.10 ppg, and Staley contributes 19.20.
I will agree Nolan steps it up Postseason. Absolutely, and that should go on her plus side.
Again, it's so close between any of these players and the ones that didn't make the top of the list it's hard to split hairs.
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cherrystreet
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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| Posted: 04/27/06 2:18 pm ::: |
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| Call me a homer or whatever, but as far as the WNBA, forget accolades, I wouldn't take Jackson or Griffith over TT for the all-decade team. Although, all belong on the Top Ten list.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 2:44 pm ::: |
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| dtsnms wrote: |
| If you factor in an assist as being two points for your team, and add those to the PPG, since Dawn shoots considerably less than Nolan (average of almost 100 shots per year over the careers), Nolan contributes 17.10 ppg, and Staley contributes 19.20. |
That assumes that none of the things Nolan does better have value. Nolan averages 1.4 more rebounds per game. Nolan has had at least 12 blocks per season for four straight years, Staley has 12 blocks in her entire career. Nolan has put up her numbers in three fewer minutes per game. Do it per 40 minutes and give Nolan credit for her advantages, and it's a much closer call.
And, of course, Tweety hit the gamer in the finals while Dawn got schooled by Ukari Figgs in her one opportunity for a title.
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dtsnms
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| Posted: 04/27/06 3:24 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
That assumes that none of the things Nolan does better have value. Nolan averages 1.4 more rebounds per game. Nolan has had at least 12 blocks per season for four straight years, Staley has 12 blocks in her entire career. Nolan has put up her numbers in three fewer minutes per game. Do it per 40 minutes and give Nolan credit for her advantages, and it's a much closer call.
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oh it's close; as I said, everyone on that list has merit. My point was people were saying take off Hammon, take off Taurasi, take off Cash, etc. and I was wondering why no one said Tweety.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 3:33 pm ::: |
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Setting aside any issues with who's on the list... of all the photos of Jen Gillom there are, they picked one from her unmemorable postscript of a year with the Sparks? She was legend with the Mercury; you're going to tell me all those photos have been burned and deleted? Likewise, D-nasty made her point as a Spark, and Katie Smith as a Lynx. Using the photos of them in their new uniforms downplays their deeds on their previous teams.
Issues with who. I do think the last seven ten-year vets deserve a place on the thirty simply for that. It's a link to history, and that is pretty goddamn important. Likewise, I would leave Rebecca Lobo on the list for her role in promoting the league in the early years. Without the original three of Leslie, Lobo, and Swoopes, would anyone have been watching their teams to discover for themselves Mabika, the Spoons, and TT?
If we're gonna fuss about statistics, how about a sub-list of All-Decade teams? All-Decade defensive, that sort of thing? Maybe have an All-Decade rookie team that comprises the top ten rookie years.
I'm not concerned about Kim not being on the list of thirty. She doesn't have to be. Put Coop, Swoopes, or TT on the team, especially Coop, and you've put her memory there.
[edited for more picture bitching]
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Keegan
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 6:23 pm ::: |
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| Dydek and Baranova in, Taurasi and Shannon Johnson out. |
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sketchbook88
Joined: 27 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 04/27/06 7:06 pm ::: |
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| sgbur22 wrote: |
| Hands down, Tari should have made the list. For everyone out their bashing Hammon, she has experienced a lot in this league and has been a tremendous scorer. She has the reverse stats of Ruthie Bolton who is on the list. Ruthie started off scoring a ton of points, then it got lower and lower. Where as Becky started scorig low points, and now is scoring through the roof. She has her place on this list. If you want to be bashing anyone, it should be players like Taurasi and Cash. To me they should not be on the list. Maybe for the 20th year anniversary?!?! |
No one should be bashing the players. It's not like they were the ones who put themselves on the list of 30 nominees. I'm just curious as to who compiled the list. I love Diana Taurasi, but even I was not happy to see her name on the list. It's just not her time, in my opinion, and even Diana probably even knows that. I think Bird should be on the list, but once it comes down to the final 10, I don't think she should be in there right now.
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Keegan
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| Posted: 04/27/06 7:09 pm ::: |
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| I also have to agree that Palmer-Daniel has a strong case for this list. She's been there for the whole ten years and she has solid career stats. |
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 10:14 pm ::: |
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Sweet tapdancing Christ, how did I miss the lack of Vicky Bullett? Or Merlakia Jones? How quickly we forget these days, but I recall too well the perils of leaving Lake open.
Shouldn't an all-decade list of nominees have more than 13 players from the 1997 season? Were it not for the fact that this requirement would knock Coop off the list and Coop is a duh, I would require five years of service to even be eligible for the list. If you're an "all-decade" player, you should be around for at least half the decade. That would knock out Bird, Cash, and Taurasi. They'll have time for their props. This is supposed to be about the past, not the present and the future, right?
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peaceplease
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/27/06 10:34 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
Sweet tapdancing Christ, how did I miss the lack of Vicky Bullett? Or Merlakia Jones? How quickly we forget these days, but I recall too well the perils of leaving Lake open.
Shouldn't an all-decade list of nominees have more than 13 players from the 1997 season? Were it not for the fact that this requirement would knock Coop off the list and Coop is a duh, I would require five years of service to even be eligible for the list. If you're an "all-decade" player, you should be around for at least half the decade. That would knock out Bird, Cash, and Taurasi. They'll have time for their props. This is supposed to be about the past, not the present and the future, right? |
LMAO!
I gotta agree about the young ones. Bird, Cash etc. Their time will come. So many great ones came before them that deserve their props first.
About PG's. I think Teresa Weatherspoon and Ticha are obvious choices.
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Slovydal
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| Posted: 04/28/06 5:55 am ::: |
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Matt,
Could we have "write-in" candidates?
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suzy&dee103
Joined: 20 Sep 2005
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| Posted: 04/28/06 6:28 am ::: |
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kim perrot (how can you have an award in her name and not name her?) |
Just because a woman dies and a award is made in her name doesn't mean she should be the queen or mother mary of all basketball players. Had Perot not died, how many rings would the comets have really won? She wasn't that great of a player. Good at some things but an average player by all means. She was the guts, glory and gave all every game, unlike Swoopes, Cooper and TT. That's why women and girls everywhere could admire her for all she gave, and she left EVERYTHING on the court, win or lose.
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penny taylor (she always, always gets ignored)
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no defense, poor shot selections, lack of leadership
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sambista
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sambista
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| Posted: 04/28/06 6:52 am ::: |
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the non-wnba story:
NEW YORK (AP) - Sheryl Swoopes, Lisa Leslie, Teresa Weatherspoon and Cynthia Cooper are among 30 nominees for the 10 spots on the WNBA's All-Decade Team.
Voting begins Friday and will be done by fans, media, players and coaches this season, which begins May 20. The team will be announced in June and honored at the WNBA All-Star Game on July 12 at Madison Square Garden.
http://sports.myway.com/news/04272006/v2957.html
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