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| Who will win this game? |
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| Total Votes : 21 |
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WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 1427
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 Posted: 09/03/19 10:17 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| Johannes plays like she has been studying Stephon Curry. An impressive Euro. |
She really is good!
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
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| Posted: 09/03/19 10:58 pm ::: |
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| scrappy wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| scrappy wrote: |
| boyd, 1 on 3. still threw up shot. that's why the libs are where they are at now. not talent, it's brain that they don't have. |
Boyd needs to go. Really don't want her in a Liberty uniform next season. |
you see that last play with a few seconds left? SELFISH even when the score/game don't matter anymore. boyd has to go. but unfortunately katie smith will take the blame for the poor players' mindset. |
I'm ready to move on from Boyd too, but let's be fair. Brittany is second in the league in assist percentage after only Vandersloot (Taurasi's 5 games don't qualify). Meanwhile, she's 85th in usage. That's hardly the stats of a selfish player. The knock on Boyd all year is that she doesn't shoot enough, so we can't turn around now and kill her for shooting too much. On that first drive, Brittany is not the first speedy guard who thought she could beat two defenders on a break (doubtful she saw the third defender behind her). The game ending drive started with an inbound pass with 5.6 seconds left. Not a lot of time to work with, and none of her teammates were making much of an effort to get open.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 09/03/19 11:41 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| I'm ready to move on from Boyd too, but let's be fair. Brittany is second in the league in assist percentage after only Vandersloot (Taurasi's 5 games don't qualify). Meanwhile, she's 85th in usage. That's hardly the stats of a selfish player. The knock on Boyd all year is that she doesn't shoot enough, so we can't turn around now and kill her for shooting too much. On that first drive, Brittany is not the first speedy guard who thought she could beat two defenders on a break (doubtful she saw the third defender behind her). The game ending drive started with an inbound pass with 5.6 seconds left. Not a lot of time to work with, and none of her teammates were making much of an effort to get open. |
Boyd isn't selfish. She's just not good enough to be a starting point guard in the WNBA.
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1133
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: 09/04/19 12:48 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| I'm ready to move on from Boyd too, but let's be fair. Brittany is second in the league in assist percentage after only Vandersloot (Taurasi's 5 games don't qualify). Meanwhile, she's 85th in usage. That's hardly the stats of a selfish player. The knock on Boyd all year is that she doesn't shoot enough, so we can't turn around now and kill her for shooting too much. On that first drive, Brittany is not the first speedy guard who thought she could beat two defenders on a break (doubtful she saw the third defender behind her). The game ending drive started with an inbound pass with 5.6 seconds left. Not a lot of time to work with, and none of her teammates were making much of an effort to get open. |
Boyd isn't selfish. She's just not good enough to be a starting point guard in the WNBA. |
I'm not sure she's good enough to be a backup. And tonight, Bria Hartley threw two of the most strangely weak passes I have ever seen. Our point guard situation is bad on an extreme level--is there any team that has it worse?
I asked before why I was even watching. I guess Johannes's performance rewarded me for my loyalty.
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mavcarter
#NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 5935
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 09/04/19 1:38 am ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| I'm not sure she's good enough to be a backup. |
I get it, she’s not necessarily having a strong season for the Liberty and I agree with Bob, I don’t think she has the skills to warrant a starting position especially since she hasn’t really improved in any facets of her game.
Advanced stats amongst guards: 2nd in Steal %, 3rd in Assist %(as root stated), 4th in Assist Ratio, and 3rd in Rebound %. IMO, with those stats alone Boyd is at least good enough to be on someone’s bench.
And I’m not really a huge fan of +/-, but Boyd had the highest of anyone on the Liberty in this game._________________
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| Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1133
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: 09/04/19 2:10 am ::: |
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| mavcarter wrote: |
| NYSports56 wrote: |
| I'm not sure she's good enough to be a backup. |
I get it, she’s not necessarily having a strong season for the Liberty and I agree with Bob, I don’t think she has the skills to warrant a starting position especially since she hasn’t really improved in any facets of her game.
Advanced stats amongst guards: 2nd in Steal %, 3rd in Assist %(as root stated), 4th in Assist Ratio, and 3rd in Rebound %. IMO, with those stats alone Boyd is at least good enough to be on someone’s bench. |
I believe that stats must be considered strongly to remove bias, but wow, that doesn't pass the eye test at all for me. At the start of the season, I considered both Hartley and Boyd to be quality backups, and I was hoping at least one of them would elevate themselves. Instead, they have been huge disappointments, Boyd to such a degree that I made my comment about her not being a backup. As far as I'm concerned, Boyd is a clear 3rd on the depth chart behind Tanisha Wright and Bria Hartley. Katie agrees with me, so maybe I'm wrong, but that is not impressive.
Since Boyd only plays one position, can't crack the top 2 in the worst PG depth chart in the WNBA (or is there somewhere I'm missing?), and shows no signs of improvement, is she really good enough to be on someone's bench?
Is there an advanced stat for turnovers?  I'm actually somewhat serious, is there?
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Aladyyn
Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 1566
Location: Czech Republic
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| Posted: 09/04/19 2:34 am ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| mavcarter wrote: |
| NYSports56 wrote: |
| I'm not sure she's good enough to be a backup. |
I get it, she’s not necessarily having a strong season for the Liberty and I agree with Bob, I don’t think she has the skills to warrant a starting position especially since she hasn’t really improved in any facets of her game.
Advanced stats amongst guards: 2nd in Steal %, 3rd in Assist %(as root stated), 4th in Assist Ratio, and 3rd in Rebound %. IMO, with those stats alone Boyd is at least good enough to be on someone’s bench. |
I believe that stats must be considered strongly to remove bias, but wow, that doesn't pass the eye test at all for me. At the start of the season, I considered both Hartley and Boyd to be quality backups, and I was hoping at least one of them would elevate themselves. Instead, they have been huge disappointments, Boyd to such a degree that I made my comment about her not being a backup. As far as I'm concerned, Boyd is a clear 3rd on the depth chart behind Tanisha Wright and Bria Hartley. Katie agrees with me, so maybe I'm wrong, but that is not impressive.
Since Boyd only plays one position, can't crack the top 2 in the worst PG depth chart in the WNBA (or is there somewhere I'm missing?), and shows no signs of improvement, is she really good enough to be on someone's bench?
Is there an advanced stat for turnovers? I'm actually somewhat serious, is there? |
Dallas has got to be the worst, no?
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1133
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: 09/04/19 3:31 am ::: |
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| Aladyyn wrote: |
| NYSports56 wrote: |
| mavcarter wrote: |
| NYSports56 wrote: |
| I'm not sure she's good enough to be a backup. |
I get it, she’s not necessarily having a strong season for the Liberty and I agree with Bob, I don’t think she has the skills to warrant a starting position especially since she hasn’t really improved in any facets of her game.
Advanced stats amongst guards: 2nd in Steal %, 3rd in Assist %(as root stated), 4th in Assist Ratio, and 3rd in Rebound %. IMO, with those stats alone Boyd is at least good enough to be on someone’s bench. |
I believe that stats must be considered strongly to remove bias, but wow, that doesn't pass the eye test at all for me. At the start of the season, I considered both Hartley and Boyd to be quality backups, and I was hoping at least one of them would elevate themselves. Instead, they have been huge disappointments, Boyd to such a degree that I made my comment about her not being a backup. As far as I'm concerned, Boyd is a clear 3rd on the depth chart behind Tanisha Wright and Bria Hartley. Katie agrees with me, so maybe I'm wrong, but that is not impressive.
Since Boyd only plays one position, can't crack the top 2 in the worst PG depth chart in the WNBA (or is there somewhere I'm missing?), and shows no signs of improvement, is she really good enough to be on someone's bench?
Is there an advanced stat for turnovers? I'm actually somewhat serious, is there? |
Dallas has got to be the worst, no? |
Arike Ogunbowale's their starting PG right now, isn't she? As for the depth behind Arike, Dallas is indeed weak right now; I'm not sure Brooke McCarty-Williams is any better than Boyd. She's younger though, so I think I'd rather have her on my team to see if maybe she can improve in the ways that Boyd has not.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 09/04/19 8:16 am ::: |
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Interesting that gray barely played
Looks like raincock allen and johannes got the microscope minutes Han as well...funny thing bout that is with an Olympic year I'd only expect Allen to be back and then only part time...raincock took off last year for WC Johannes and han have more value to country than club
That said new CBA may turn that on its head so stay tuned
Gonna play keep an or dump an here and now to stay positive and celebratory Friday for fan night last game at WCC (or else) and spoon HOF
Johannes has the potential but she has to stay here get stronger and learn the us style better or shell always be that flashy novelty on the high bench...that said that's way above dumeric s year im Atlanta
Han I think can be an everyday center in 5 years again needs to bulk up amd lean to the American game
For both unless something major changes in CBA not gonna happen
Boyd isn't as good as her numbers but also isn't as bad as her worst moments...im no one's apologist but boyd has had no bigger advocate for her development than I have over time...but I've even reached the conclusion she's never gonna be more than a top reserve pg in this league...too inconsistent and needs to harness her fire better too many dumb Ts or spiking the ball and carrying on for a true leader of a club which is part of being a pg
Allen ive beem down on for years but she turned a corner this year id keep even if we only get half a season
Wright did a lot...but Friday...take the bow kiss the logo and move on to coaching...its time to move on...grear long career no shame only great memories but shes given all she can
Hartley I've soured on...get what you can and part ways peacefully just not consistent enough to be a starter
Zahui id keep but that's also depends on what free agency turns into...with CTs plethora of expiring contracts if you get a shot to steal a big with talent you say Zahui and Charles be damned you get one of em CBA explains so much about our situation will really determine what will happen for us what coach we get etc
Charles keep but with a huge asterisk of if there's quality at the 4 you grab it and prepare for the near future...shes near the wall needs a 2nd and 3rd option and putting a young good 4 behind her to limit minutes maximizes her not belittles her
Raincock is what she is hustle and heart with enough skill to be useful...invite to camp should have better
Gray had a great year for her and saved our bacon with stokes sitting out...id invite to camp but likeky stokes returns to reclaim this spot
Durr...was it that serious were other things at play...if Atlanta nakes an offer listen but sell HIGH still has potential and I think the right coach will help keep unless something boffo is offered
Nurse enough start to make all star....then...almost less than zero at times beat out by allen...still see her as a 3 but gotta show a lot in 3rd year...new coach should help keep but don't be shy if anything good crops up the top 2 were forged in depth...i think this will be the way of the new cba
Also will need to weigh team canada in this but we shall see
Dump Katie not even a question same with herb and Farris the 64000 dollar question is do you elevate spoon or let her go as well... this toe in the water approach has not worked at all. Not under bill worse under Katie...but she's tough to just dump...so do you give her the keys or do you go for a veteran w coach a lot depends om this decision
So locks for me
Charles
Nurse*
Zahui
Allen*
*likeky partial season due to NT commitments
Move only for top dollar
Durr
Bring to camp but shop for better in free agency/draft
Gray
Raincock* unless she sits for NT
Retain rights but let sit for 2020 olympic duty
Johannes
Han
Dump
Boyd
Hartley
Wright (retirement)
Katie and all staff
Spoon either EARNS hc or gets reassigned away from the coaching staff no more ms in between!
Returning
Stokes
Expect 2 picks to make roster yes we need inoescu almost or bust
Leaving 4 open spots for free agents...thats high for the W but roster needs impactful change....and I feel the new CBA will be dealing from a different deck than we are used to when it comes to free agency
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 7365
Location: Underground
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| Posted: 09/04/19 8:24 am ::: |
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For about half the season, Boyd was second in the league in assists with an assist-to-turnover ratio over 2. Usually, that's considered really good performance for a PG. However, the knock on Brittany was that she scored less than 6 ppg. When things started going downhill for the team as a whole, Boyd tried to step-up. However, because she can't shoot, Brittany could only respond by driving more and trying to execute aggressive passes. This was her weird version of heroball. Well, both of those maneuvers led to a proliferation in turnovers. With Boyd's offensive game, less is usually more. She plays her best when calm and conservative. I honestly believe Brittany will be fine if she ends up on a good offensive team that doesn't need her scoring. But in an already clumsy, inconsistent NY offense, she tends to exacerbate the problems.
I'm going to make my comments about the roster on the Liberty thread.
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mavcarter
#NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 5935
Location: Chicago
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| Posted: 09/04/19 9:25 am ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| I believe that stats must be considered strongly to remove bias, but wow, that doesn't pass the eye test at all for me. |
I get it, when you’re playing for a struggling team weaknesses get magnified. I’d take Boyd on the Sky, she’s definitely better equipped as a back-up then Gabby Williams(while she has handled it better than expected) and Faulkner(who still doesn’t seem 100%).
| NYSports56 wrote: |
| As far as I'm concerned, Boyd is a clear 3rd on the depth chart behind Tanisha Wright and Bria Hartley. Katie agrees with me, so maybe I'm wrong, but that is not impressive. |
LMAO, when you have to use Smith as somewhat of an endorsement you know it’s been a slow year.
| NYSports56 wrote: |
| Since Boyd only plays one position, can't crack the top 2 in the worst PG depth chart in the WNBA (or is there somewhere I'm missing?), and shows no signs of improvement, is she really good enough to be on someone's bench? |
Bentley, Carzola, Dietrick, McCarty-Williams, Kaela Davis, Hiedeman, Arica Carter, Tayler Hill were all at some point on someone’s bench. I think Boyd is better than all of them.
Can’t believe I’m actually defending a back-up. Slow day at the office. 
| NYSports56 wrote: |
| Is there an advanced stat for turnovers? I'm actually somewhat serious, is there? |
Yes, and I think she actually leads the league(turnover ratio) in terms of qualifications(minutes and games played). _________________
| wrote: |
| Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree? |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 09/04/19 9:33 am ::: |
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| Happycappie25 wrote: |
Durr...was it that serious were other things at play...if Atlanta nakes an offer listen but sell HIGH still has potential and I think the right coach will help keep unless something boffo is offered
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Is Atlanta's first round pick enough? If not, what else to add or what other deal do you have in mind. I send Angel north for Durr fwiw.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 09/04/19 9:40 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
For about half the season, Boyd was second in the league in assists with an assist-to-turnover ratio over 2. Usually, that's considered really good performance for a PG. However, the knock on Brittany was that she scored less than 6 ppg. When things started going downhill for the team as a whole, Boyd tried to step-up. However, because she can't shoot, Brittany could only respond by driving more and trying to execute aggressive passes. This was her weird version of heroball. Well, both of those maneuvers led to a proliferation in turnovers. With Boyd's offensive game, less is usually more. She plays her best when calm and conservative. I honestly believe Brittany will be fine if she ends up on a good offensive team that doesn't need her scoring. But in an already clumsy, inconsistent NY offense, she tends to exacerbate the problems.
I'm going to make my comments about the roster on the Liberty thread. |
This is an excellent analysis. But even on a good offensive team Boyd's poor shooting would be a problem. That team wouldn't need her scoring. Quite true. But, as with teams facing the Liberty, defenders against the good offensive team would be able to leave Boyd alone for open jumpers and help out against the good scorers.
This is why I don't see Boyd as a starting point guard anywhere. I think she's good enough to be a backup point guard for the Liberty (if there's a coach that can give her solid guidance) or elsewhere.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 09/04/19 9:57 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Happycappie25 wrote: |
Durr...was it that serious were other things at play...if Atlanta nakes an offer listen but sell HIGH still has potential and I think the right coach will help keep unless something boffo is offered
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Is Atlanta's first round pick enough? If not, what else to add or what other deal do you have in mind. I send Angel north for Durr fwiw. |
Ill take the 1 over mcoughtry and her bad knees and worse attitude
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"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 09/04/19 11:08 am ::: |
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| Works for me.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 67058
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 09/04/19 11:17 am ::: |
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| Happycappie25 wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| Happycappie25 wrote: |
Durr...was it that serious were other things at play...if Atlanta nakes an offer listen but sell HIGH still has potential and I think the right coach will help keep unless something boffo is offered
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Is Atlanta's first round pick enough? If not, what else to add or what other deal do you have in mind. I send Angel north for Durr fwiw. |
Ill take the 1 over mcoughtry and her bad knees and worse attitude |
I'm invoking the Sidney Spencer rule here. We're not trading a lottery pick until we know it's not the #1.
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I ain't got a home
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 09/04/19 11:20 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Happycappie25 wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| Happycappie25 wrote: |
Durr...was it that serious were other things at play...if Atlanta nakes an offer listen but sell HIGH still has potential and I think the right coach will help keep unless something boffo is offered
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Is Atlanta's first round pick enough? If not, what else to add or what other deal do you have in mind. I send Angel north for Durr fwiw. |
Ill take the 1 over mcoughtry and her bad knees and worse attitude |
I'm invoking the Sidney Spencer rule here. We're not trading a lottery pick until we know it's not the #1. |
Fair enough, but you know that if the Dream get the No. 1 pick it is a sure sign they are moving to SF.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24402
Location: London
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| Posted: 09/04/19 11:26 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Happycappie25 wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| Happycappie25 wrote: |
Durr...was it that serious were other things at play...if Atlanta nakes an offer listen but sell HIGH still has potential and I think the right coach will help keep unless something boffo is offered
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Is Atlanta's first round pick enough? If not, what else to add or what other deal do you have in mind. I send Angel north for Durr fwiw. |
Ill take the 1 over mcoughtry and her bad knees and worse attitude |
I'm invoking the Sidney Spencer rule here. We're not trading a lottery pick until we know it's not the #1. |
Wonder if they might add the ability to put 'protection' on picks in trades in the next CBA. The problem is that it'll complicate things, which always opens up extra possibilities for people to screw up (both on individual teams and in the league office). |
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Shades
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pasteurize
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