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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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 Posted: 02/11/17 3:07 pm ::: |
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In that scenario, Piph is the starting PG. A scenario I can get behind. We have, however, barely seen LFO show an inclination to play Piph and Sugar together. Having a hard time believing that's how it's going to go down. Unlike Piph, Wright had at least been a lead guard for Seattle for one season as a starter when Bird was injured. Piph has never been a full-time PG, is coming off an ACL, and is a scorer. 3 reasons why I'm not convinced the Libs will go in that direction.
I'm sort of on the fence about how I feel about it. But I'm simply not sure the Libs are going that route. And to be a championship contender, I think you need 3-4 scorers on the court a majority of the time. If Piph and Rodgers both stay and don't share a considerable amount of time on the court, you can wave goodbye to any championship thoughts. I don't care how much depth we have or how much we grind.
Not to mention, there's not enough rebounding here 1-5. Honestly I do think there will be another move made to add size at the 3 spot. Laimbeer has been a dominant coach with a size advantage stemming from the SF position. I think we will see a move in that direction. Maybe not using Sugar as the bait. But one way or another I think you'll see a bigger small forward being added.
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toad455
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| Posted: 02/11/17 3:11 pm ::: |
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| I wonder if Laimbeer would give up next year's 1st round pick for a SF? For Christmas? For A. Thomas? For Bonner?
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 02/11/17 3:56 pm ::: |
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The Libs would trade for Bonner in a split second. It would take much more than a late first round pick to acquire her though obviously. Christmas, I am not so sure. She'd be great size-wise and rebounding-wise. But she's a low percentage shooter coming from some friendly offensive systems. I do not think she'd be a great fit in our offense. Now if you tell me we are getting her cheap to fill a role, yeah I'm all for it. But not for a first rounder. I also don't think the Libs would want Alyssa Thomas all that much. They appear to be structuring a team around players who can spread the floor rather than those who condense it into a thimble. It's not worth what she adds to have her lack of shooting slow down your offense.
Bonner would be awesome. No idea what the Libs would have to give up or if a trade could be consummated. But she fits exactly what the Libs need.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 02/11/17 4:23 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| In that scenario, Piph is the starting PG. A scenario I can get behind. We have, however, barely seen LFO show an inclination to play Piph and Sugar together. Having a hard time believing that's how it's going to go down. Unlike Piph, Wright had at least been a lead guard for Seattle for one season as a starter when Bird was injured. Piph has never been a full-time PG, is coming off an ACL, and is a scorer. 3 reasons why I'm not convinced the Libs will go in that direction. |
I think you throw out last season because Prince was clearly gimpy when she came back. No way she could defend at 1 or even create without her usual cutting ability. I was pretty dubious myself about Prince being the PG this season, but having watched her a bit this winter I'm feeling better about it. I'm not sure, but I believe Piph has functioned as a full-time PG in Russia at times -- even if it was only the national team. Not my preferred way to go, but probably the best we have.
Coincidentally, I put together a draft pool for 2018 recently. I was able to come up with a list of 36 players during halftime of the UCLA-Stanford game. It was all players I've seen compiled in like 15 minutes. I've barely been able to do that in 5 months for 2017. Next year will include a lot of interesting wing players, so yes there will be one available late in the 1st Round. I wouldn't trade my 2018 pick unless someone knocks me over with an offer.
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toad455
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| Posted: 02/11/17 5:06 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
I think you throw out last season because Prince was clearly gimpy when she came back. No way she could defend at 1 or even create without her usual cutting ability. I was pretty dubious myself about Prince being the PG this season, but having watched her a bit this winter I'm feeling better about it. I'm not sure, but I believe Piph has functioned as a full-time PG in Russia at times -- even if it was only the national team. Not my preferred way to go, but probably the best we have.
Coincidentally, I put together a draft pool for 2018 recently. I was able to come up with a list of 36 players during halftime of the UCLA-Stanford game. It was all players I've seen compiled in like 15 minutes. I've barely been able to do that in 5 months for 2017. Next year will include a lot of interesting wing players, so yes there will be one available late in the 1st Round. I wouldn't trade my 2018 pick unless someone knocks me over with an offer. |
I wonder if McCoughtry would consider coming to New York?
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 02/11/17 5:19 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| In that scenario, Piph is the starting PG. A scenario I can get behind. We have, however, barely seen LFO show an inclination to play Piph and Sugar together. Having a hard time believing that's how it's going to go down. Unlike Piph, Wright had at least been a lead guard for Seattle for one season as a starter when Bird was injured. Piph has never been a full-time PG, is coming off an ACL, and is a scorer. 3 reasons why I'm not convinced the Libs will go in that direction. |
I think you throw out last season because Prince was clearly gimpy when she came back. No way she could defend at 1 or even create without her usual cutting ability. I was pretty dubious myself about Prince being the PG this season, but having watched her a bit this winter I'm feeling better about it. I'm not sure, but I believe Piph has functioned as a full-time PG in Russia at times -- even if it was only the national team. Not my preferred way to go, but probably the best we have.
Coincidentally, I put together a draft pool for 2018 recently. I was able to come up with a list of 36 players during halftime of the UCLA-Stanford game. It was all players I've seen compiled in like 15 minutes. I've barely been able to do that in 5 months for 2017. Next year will include a lot of interesting wing players, so yes there will be one available late in the 1st Round. I wouldn't trade my 2018 pick unless someone knocks me over with an offer. |
I don't fundamentally disagree. I just wonder if they were inclined to use Piph and Sugar together, period. Wright could have played point on offense and forward on defense. Especially in those do-or-die games where you were desperate. I'm also not sure if Bill would want Piph as the primary on-ball defender, which is what she would probably be as the point guard.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 02/11/17 5:59 pm ::: |
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I keep wondering what Bill Laimbeer envisions this season for Brittany Boyd. (If she's not part of a forthcoming trade.) I'm not in favor of having a lineup for many minutes per game with Prince and Rodgers in the backcourt and Wright or Zellous at SF. But even less appealing is having Boyd, Prince, and Rodgers all on the court at the same time. The impact on the team's defense and rebounding would be disastrous.
There's been little discussion here of Boyd's role in 2017. Since we're not going to get Bill Laimbeer's answer, I'd be curious how others feel.
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toad455
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| Posted: 02/11/17 6:06 pm ::: |
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| A Boyd-Prince-Rodgers backcourt would be terrible. All three are 5-9(listed at least). We'd get killed. No way any either Prince or Rodgers should be at the 3 spot. EVER.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 02/11/17 7:07 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| A Boyd-Prince-Rodgers backcourt would be terrible. All three are 5-9(listed at least). We'd get killed. No way any either Prince or Rodgers should be at the 3 spot. EVER. |
Of course. But if neither Prince nor Rodgers ever plays at 3, then either Prince is our lead guard or they share 40 minutes at 2. Or they share the 40 minutes at 2 and Prince plays a bit as the lead guard.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 02/11/17 7:33 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
I keep wondering what Bill Laimbeer envisions this season for Brittany Boyd. (If she's not part of a forthcoming trade.) I'm not in favor of having a lineup for many minutes per game with Prince and Rodgers in the backcourt and Wright or Zellous at SF. But even less appealing is having Boyd, Prince, and Rodgers all on the court at the same time. The impact on the team's defense and rebounding would be disastrous.
There's been little discussion here of Boyd's role in 2017. Since we're not going to get Bill Laimbeer's answer, I'd be curious how others feel. |
I know that Hartley's pregnancy is a wildcard, but that not withstanding I feel Hartley is one of the more fit human beings I have ever seen in my entire life. If anyone can come back from pregnancy after 5 months, I think Hartley has a pretty good chance. Time will tell, but if Hartley is able to contribute off the bench I think the message couldn't be more clear. I think Boyd is on thin ice. You don't necessarily have to be a three point shooter to be an efficient point guard, but if you can't even make an open mid-range jumper you're in big trouble. And that's where Boyd is right now. She's been working with Spoon, who did wonders with Sugar last year, so that's something. But to be blunt, if Boyd is zero threat to hit a mid-range jumper again, well, there's other players who can take her position and make an open 15 footer.
As such, I think her role is impossible to define until she proves she is worthy of one that is something more than an occasional change-of-pace spark. The difference this year though is, if she's not worthy of a bigger role, Hartley's presence could mean that Boyd won't have a role at all.
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root_thing
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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root_thing
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 02/11/17 8:30 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
It does seem interesting that this team is dwindling in size. We have a bunch of 5-9 guards, and even our post players aren't that big now that Swords is gone. I know Zahui B is supposed to be 6-5, but she looks more like 6-3 to me. At times, Tina has been listed as 6-3 instead of 6-4 by USA Basketball and overseas teams. And the first time Vaughn was here, fans speculated that she was more like 6-2 rather than 6-4. We're turning into the Little Liberty! (Tiny Torches is already taken.  ) |
That's exactly why I think there will be another move. I don't see any likelihood of an Allen/Wright/Z small forward situation without additional size being added to the mix. It's just flies in the face of everything Laimbeer wants to do as a coach. |
Burdick is 6-2. For that matter, the Liberty list Allen as 6-2 even though the rest of the world has her at 6-1. Maybe they're using effective height based on her long arms. 
Looking around, what available player can move the needle? You won't get Moore, McCoughtry or Bonner. Thomas doesn't seem like a fit. Christmas has been discussed. With Powers missing the beginning of the season, Dallas needs her. Carson is out. You want Coleman after a bad year? Tamera Young? Mo Currie? Alyssa Clark? Tierra Ruffin-Pratt? That's all eleven starting SFs from last season. Once you get to bench players, are they better than what we already have? |
You already know who I want. If not her, maybe Morgan Tuck would be attainable as kind of a combo forward type that Laimbeer has had before. The Liberty have assets to give in order to get that type of player, though I am not entirely sold on her as a small forward. That said, she's a great fit for what the Libs do both inside and out. She'd be an instant contributor as you transition her to a combo forward role.
Another note, does Piph have any commitments that run into training camp? Converting to WNBA point guard, if that is NY's intention, will require training camp time.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 02/11/17 9:02 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
You already know who I want. If not her, maybe Morgan Tuck would be attainable as kind of a combo forward type that Laimbeer has had before. The Liberty have assets to give in order to get that type of player, though I am not entirely sold on her as a small forward.
Another note, does Piph have any commitments that run into training camp? Converting to WNBA point guard, if that is NY's intention, will require training camp time. |
With the transactions that have occurred since we last discussed this topic, I think getting DeShields will be more difficult now. SAS signed DeSouza, re-signed Alexander, and traded for Harrison. They have enough post players. At this point, they're in need of a young SF themselves, so drafting and keeping DD makes more sense than trading her. Similarly, based on need and availability, Chicago's best option might be to take DeShields and keep her. DD also has been playing better lately, so that raises her value. Overall, if the train hasn't left the station, the doors are shut and the engineer is waiting for the go signal.
Regarding Prince, she's on a good team so I'm guessing she'll participate in at least two sets of playoffs. Unless the scheduling is different this year, she and the other six players in Europe will probably miss most of training camp.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 02/11/17 10:40 pm ::: |
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OK so lets say Dupree and Bonner are on the table as a package deal
would you do it?
Rodgers, Zahui B, and 2018 first round pick for Dupree and Bonner?
lets map it out
Wright/Boyd/Hartley
Prince/Zellous
Bonner/Allen
Charles/Dupree
Vaughn/Stokes
your choice of Burdick, Schimmel, Barbee or #14 (I would probably go with Burdick, but still havve a spot in my heart for Schimmel.)
PX just for fun
D-Rob/Xargay
Rodgers/Harden
Taurasi/Petrovic
Zahui B./George
Griner/Bone
some of the training vamp contracts they just signed Talbot? maybe bring back Mitchell?
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root_thing
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| Posted: 02/12/17 12:12 am ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
OK so lets say Dupree and Bonner are on the table as a package deal
would you do it?
Rodgers, Zahui B, and 2018 first round pick for Dupree and Bonner?
lets map it out
Wright/Boyd/Hartley
Prince/Zellous
Bonner/Allen
Charles/Dupree
Vaughn/Stokes
your choice of Burdick, Schimmel, Barbee or #14 (I would probably go with Burdick, but still havve a spot in my heart for Schimmel.)
PX just for fun
D-Rob/Xargay
Rodgers/Harden
Taurasi/Petrovic
Zahui B./George
Griner/Bone
some of the training vamp contracts they just signed Talbot? maybe bring back Mitchell? |
I guess I would do it if I'm New York. The Dupree part of the acquisition is a waste because she'd be an over-qualified, underutilized backup to Tina. I suppose Laimbeer could move Charles back to center, but I don't think he wants to. Nonetheless, I understand the premise that Bonner and Dupree are a couples trade. Probably better off dealt to CT in exchange for the Thomases. Anyway, the 12th roster spot should go to a big situational center, whether from #14 or another source. Otherwise, that NY post rotation looks smallish/softish.
I would not do it if I'm Phoenix. You already have a balanced line-up -- why mess it up? Having Griner, Bone, and Zahui B you'd end up with a logjam of natural centers. George is an odd stretch 4 who sometimes rebounds, sometimes doesn't and isn't a great defender. Also, isn't Taurasi more comfortable in the backcourt? I seem to remember when Pondexter was there, they used to list Cappie as the SF. It just feels like a lot of odd fits with potential bad chemistry. Yes, you get younger, but it doesn't align with your goal of making another run before the window closes.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 02/12/17 12:18 am ::: |
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| Yeah when I mapped it out I was kind of like "Not a good look for PX" even giving them our 2nd best player and a young up and comer. I guess we could do Allen, Stokes and the first round pick in 2018. It probably fits their positional needs a little better, but it does kind of point out that PX would be crazy to trade Bonner and Dupree.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 02/12/17 3:48 pm ::: |
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I see Dupree as equal parts liability and asset. If she and Bonner come as a package deal I'll pass for what we would need to give up. And I see an urgency to come up with a championship-level team soon, with Piph having just turned 29 and Tina just having turned 28. Sugar, if she stays, has just turned 27. The nucleus of the team is right in its prime. As such, that's why I think that the time is right now to capitalize and do what needs to be done to clear the final hurdle. Bonner would be a major asset. But I don't think gutting your youth and trading your top defender for a lousy one (Dupree) would get you any closer to that end.
One thing we know about the last two seasons...the team we thought we had in February and the team we wound up with in May were pretty different in both seasons. I doubt we will see an exception here.
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Shades
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| Posted: 02/12/17 4:38 pm ::: |
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| What do you think of Alexis Prince of Baylor at #14? That's probably around where she should go. Two Princes, one team? Think of the promotional possibilities. Katie Smith is doing color on the Baylor game right now, and Prince is having a good game and a good season.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 02/12/17 4:38 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| One thing we know about the last two seasons...the team we thought we had in February and the team we wound up with in May were pretty different in both seasons. I doubt we will see an exception here. |
A very telling point. Of course there's no guarantee that because desirable trades were made in the past it'll be possible again this season. And I trust Bill Laimbeer not to make a trade just to make a trade. But, given his track record, I believe we'll have a stronger roster on opening night in May than we do right now.
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PUmatty
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| Posted: 02/12/17 5:00 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Two Princes, one team? Think of the promotional possibilities. |
A Spin Doctors halftime show?
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Shades
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root_thing
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| Posted: 02/12/17 7:27 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| What do you think of Alexis Prince of Baylor at #14? That's probably around where she should go. Two Princes, one team? Think of the promotional possibilities. Katie Smith is doing color on the Baylor game right now, and Prince is having a good game and a good season. |
Prince is viable, but she's similar to Allen in that she's slender and a long range shooter. I think Liberty fans are looking for a complementary player who is stronger, grittier and more capable of getting physical both on offense and defense.
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