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| Who will win this game? |
| Fever |
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23% |
[ 3 ] |
| Dream |
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76% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 13 |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63976
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 Posted: 08/26/17 7:11 pm ::: |
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| lynxmania wrote: |
Wheeler dribbles the clock down then decides at the last minute to try and get rid of it and throws a terrible pass. |
They stole that one from the Dream playbook.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 08/26/17 7:16 pm ::: |
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| If Atlanta can manage to score on two straight possessions, Indiana's going to crack like an egg.
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wnbashockballa
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
Posts: 1148
Location: YOURHAIRNEEDSSOME,GREECE
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| Posted: 08/26/17 7:18 pm ::: |
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| dream waited a bit to late to push for the playoffs
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011
Posts: 10697
Location: Minnesota
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| Posted: 08/26/17 7:18 pm ::: |
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Indiana fell a part. Atlanta pushed at the right time.
They stay alive... for now.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/26/17 7:24 pm ::: |
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| 50-28 rebounding in favor of ATL
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22482
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 08/26/17 7:27 pm ::: |
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| Dream not out of the playoffs yet. Dallas sucking tonight also helps them.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/26/17 7:31 pm ::: |
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| Seemed like a noisy full crowd. Was that pilight I saw doing cartwheels?
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22482
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 08/26/17 7:35 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Seemed like a noisy full crowd. Was that pilight I saw doing cartwheels? |
over 5,000 there and it looked like it.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24416
Location: London
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| Posted: 08/26/17 8:09 pm ::: |
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| There were about 10 people there when the game started. Never understand these 'late-arriving crowds', especially on weekends when it's not like you're fighting rush hour traffic after work to get to the game. |
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3396
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| Posted: 08/26/17 8:21 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| There were about 10 people there when the game started. Never understand these 'late-arriving crowds', especially on weekends when it's not like you're fighting rush hour traffic after work to get to the game. |
Well, the Falcons are playing an exhibition game at home today, that never helps.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 08/26/17 8:25 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Sykes is missing today. Even w/o Angel, I expected this team to be better than they are... |
For the love of Og, why? |
The Dream have 3 all-stars.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3396
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| Posted: 08/26/17 8:28 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| Sykes is missing today. Even w/o Angel, I expected this team to be better than they are... |
For the love of Og, why? |
The Dream have 3 all-stars. |
And, clearly, the one they don't have is the one that matters.
Alternatively, if a team with three all-stars only has twelve wins, then at least two of them have no business being all-stars.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 08/26/17 8:41 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| There were about 10 people there when the game started. Never understand these 'late-arriving crowds', especially on weekends when it's not like you're fighting rush hour traffic after work to get to the game. |
I always wonder where these late arriving people come from. The usher in our section suggested we sit in better seats behind the basket (lower level instead of upper cheapies). She said that was the "student section" and they didn't arrive normally until the 3rd or 4th quarter. Pretty odd. BTW - they will not open the upper level next season. Probably only about a dozen people up there normally. I like having my own private section, but then I'm ant-social.
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Libra_Girl
Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Posts: 1237
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| Posted: 08/26/17 8:59 pm ::: |
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I'm rooting for ATL to make the playoffs cause it would suck to play this hard to not make it.
It was a bad and entertaining gm at the same time all those misses and made clutch shots.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 08/26/17 9:01 pm ::: |
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| BTW - Wheeler made the Dream look bad for cutting her, but keeping Shoni.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63976
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| Posted: 08/26/17 9:06 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| BTW - Wheeler made the Dream look bad for cutting her, but keeping Shoni. |
Wheeler had guard goddess Chatman to develop her.
Let's say Cooper keeps her and she develops the same in ATL.
Does he sign Clarendon? Are you happy with Clarendon?
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 08/26/17 9:15 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| BTW - Wheeler made the Dream look bad for cutting her, but keeping Shoni. |
Wheeler had guard goddess Chatman to develop her.
Let's say Cooper keeps her and she develops the same in ATL.
Does he sign Clarendon? Are you happy with Clarendon? |
Clarendon might still be in Indy, or somewhere else. Maybe not even in the WNBA. Clarendon was going to be cut from Indy because Indy decided to keep Wheeler instead. Indy managed to trade Clarendon to Atlanta and she did improve a lot. Had Dream not wanted her, it was late in training camp, so its possible not other team would have been interested, but she might have ended somewhere else. Wheeler had pretty good numbers for the Dream but dribbled the ball too much and was too much of a Me First PG.
Clarendon has done a much better job of distributing the ball this year, and I give Cooper credit for working a system that she could run. Her shooting has been pretty bad, and much worse than it was last year. Last year she a was pretty good shooter but couldn't pass. This year she is a good passer, but her shooting is down.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 08/26/17 9:23 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Wheeler had pretty good numbers for the Dream but dribbled the ball too much and was too much of a Me First PG. |
Is she really all that different now?
| Randy wrote: |
| Clarendon has done a much better job of distributing the ball this year, and I give Cooper credit for working out a system that she could run. |
Is that a system without McCoughtry?
| Randy wrote: |
| Her shooting has been pretty bad, and much worse than it was last year. Last year she a was pretty good shooter but couldn't pass. This year she is a good passer, but her shooting is down. |
Who do you want, Sue Bird or Ticha Penicheiro?
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 08/26/17 9:32 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Randy wrote: |
| Wheeler had pretty good numbers for the Dream but dribbled the ball too much and was too much of a Me First PG. |
Is she really all that different now?
| Randy wrote: |
| Clarendon has done a much better job of distributing the ball this year, and I give Cooper credit for working out a system that she could run. |
Is that a system without McCoughtry?
| Randy wrote: |
| Her shooting has been pretty bad, and much worse than it was last year. Last year she a was pretty good shooter but couldn't pass. This year she is a good passer, but her shooting is down. |
Who do you want, Sue Bird or Ticha Penicheiro? |
Don't get me wrong - I'm happy with her. I'd rather have her than Ticha, and Bird would probably retire before even thinking about playing in Atlanta.
I think your best point is the second one - system w/o Angel. Angel dominates the ball so much, and she directs the offense a lot. Kind of renders a PG's role into little more than bringing the ball up and giving it to Angel. So yeah - not having Angel around probably helps Clarendon, although as I'm sure someone will point, the goal is to win games not rack up the most assists.
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#Occasionalwnbafan
Joined: 01 Mar 2012
Posts: 1380
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| Posted: 08/26/17 9:35 pm ::: |
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| I remember saying I couldn’t see Indy getting 9 wins this season and I was just about right, they lack a star/go to player. Dupree, brings nothing to the team other then scoring, and they need an upgrade at the four, I hope they land the top pick in the draft, they need Wilson more then any other team in the league. |
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3396
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| Posted: 08/26/17 9:39 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Who do you want, Sue Bird or Ticha Penicheiro? |
I'd rather have Ticha, but I'm not even pretending to be unbiased. #RealAssistLeader #MFFL
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 08/26/17 9:47 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| I think your best point is the second one - system w/o Angel. Angel dominates the ball so much, and she directs the offense a lot. Kind of renders a PG's role into little more than bringing the ball up and giving it to Angel. So yeah - not having Angel around probably helps Clarendon, although as I'm sure someone will point, the goal is to win games not rack up the most assists. |
Does it, though? I mean, her assist numbers are at a career high, but she's shooting a career-low from 3, and her second-worst FG% overall. Her PER is slightly down, her TS% and eFG% are way down, and so are her win shares and offensive rating. So, her overall impact on the offense has gotten worse, even while her assists have doubled. She appears to really be better off playing alongside McCoughtry.
I think the bigger question for the Dream is, how will Sykes play, when McCoughtry comes back?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 67164
Location: Where the action is
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| Posted: 08/26/17 9:58 pm ::: |
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Despite her gaudy assist numbers, Clarendon is not a very good PG. Michael Cooper seems to realize it. In the final minute of regulation in this must-win game with the team down three, Clarendon was on the bench.
Bria Holmes is rapidly becoming my favorite Dream player. Late in OT, when Cooper was doing offense for defense switches, it was Holmes coming in for defense instead of Young and it paid off.
The Fever are a very bad team right now.
Lisa Leslie and Angel McCoughtry were in attendance.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 08/26/17 10:48 pm ::: |
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I sort of agree with both of you. I would place her around the top of the lower 3rd of the WNBA teams starting PGs. She gets a lot of assists because the Dream run some set plays and she is the one distributing the ball. However, it seemed to me that in the time when she was out we had a bunch of 24 second violations. Since the alternative Ajavon or Sykes/Hayes running point, I don't think there is much else you can do.
To clarify - I think her assist numbers have gone up w/o Angel and will go down if Angel decides to show up next year. That is because there will be a lot more one on one play. On really good or really bad teams, stats can be very misleading. Somebody will score points, grab rebounds and pass out assists even on the Dream, Fever or Stars. I think I pointed out on another thread that having assist leading PG is not the formula for success in the W this season. The top 4 - Sloot, Clarendon Bird and Diggins all play for teams with losing records.
Speaking of Angel - her EWS (Empirical Win Share*) is now a max of 5 and that's probably where it ends up. So she is worth 5 wins a season for the Dream.
* Difference between 2017 and 2016 Dream wins.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3396
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| Posted: 08/27/17 1:46 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
I sort of agree with both of you. I would place her around the top of the lower 3rd of the WNBA teams starting PGs. She gets a lot of assists because the Dream run some set plays and she is the one distributing the ball. However, it seemed to me that in the time when she was out we had a bunch of 24 second violations. Since the alternative Ajavon or Sykes/Hayes running point, I don't think there is much else you can do.
To clarify - I think her assist numbers have gone up w/o Angel and will go down if Angel decides to show up next year. That is because there will be a lot more one on one play. On really good or really bad teams, stats can be very misleading. Somebody will score points, grab rebounds and pass out assists even on the Dream, Fever or Stars. I think I pointed out on another thread that having assist leading PG is not the formula for success in the W this season. The top 4 - Sloot, Clarendon Bird and Diggins all play for teams with losing records.
Speaking of Angel - her EWS (Empirical Win Share*) is now a max of 5 and that's probably where it ends up. So she is worth 5 wins a season for the Dream.
* Difference between 2017 and 2016 Dream wins. |
Except, if you take McCoughtry out of the equation for both teams, the 2017 Dream should still be better than 2016 Dream. Because, unless you're arguing that Hayes/Clarendon/Williams/Sykes/Holmes/Lyttle/Dantas/Ajavon is equal in talent to Hayes/Clarendon/Williams/Holmes/Lyttle/Gray/Cortijo/Ajavon, then saying that McCoughtry only makes a five-game difference between those two squads is kind of specious.
I mean, you're not actually arguing that Sykes and Dantas are a lateral move from Cortijo and Gray, are you?
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