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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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 Posted: 10/06/08 7:04 pm ::: |
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| DTP wrote: |
| GEF34 wrote: |
I was just going based on him saying she was better offensively  |
Taj is longer so she's able to get her hands up and get more blocks but that doesn't make her the better defensive player. Ford is a little more mobile, more athletic, she has quick hands as well....she gets a ton of steals on guards, very physical, and just a hell of a defender when she's healthy. Offensively, she doesn't have the range, passing ability, or handles of Taj but like I said in the post I believe Ford is better. |
I think Taj is an excellent defender as is Cheryl Ford, I'm not taking anything away from either, I'm just saying Taj has a better offensive game all-around, I just didn't bring up defense.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 10/06/08 7:16 pm ::: |
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| I think Taj is excellent defensively, as was Ford pre-injuries. Coming off an ACL injury has different impacts on different players, particularly in the women's game. And she already was impacted by injury prior to the ACL tear. Nobody can predict how close she will be to being the same player as before. She might be. She also might not.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 10/06/08 7:20 pm ::: |
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| DTP wrote: |
Taj is longer so she's able to get her hands up and get more blocks but that doesn't make her the better defensive player. Ford is a little more mobile, more athletic, she has quick hands as well....she gets a ton of steals on guards, very physical, and just a hell of a defender when she's healthy. Offensively, she doesn't have the range, passing ability, or handles of Taj but like I said in the post I believe Ford is better. |
Without taking injuries into account, I also give the edge to Ford. Taj may be more versatile, but Ford is absolutely a dominant force on the court when healthy. Ford has an entirely different impact on the game than any other WNBA player given the intimidating physicality and dominant rebounding that she brings along with her defensive skills.
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BCBG25
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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cherrystreet
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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Location: houston,tx
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| Posted: 10/06/08 7:31 pm ::: |
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| That's because the Comets never found anyone to shoulder the responsibilty like Taj did for Ford.
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PattyforPresident
Joined: 25 Sep 2008
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| Posted: 10/07/08 6:46 am ::: |
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| LibWNBAFan wrote: |
| DTP wrote: |
Taj is longer so she's able to get her hands up and get more blocks but that doesn't make her the better defensive player. Ford is a little more mobile, more athletic, she has quick hands as well....she gets a ton of steals on guards, very physical, and just a hell of a defender when she's healthy. Offensively, she doesn't have the range, passing ability, or handles of Taj but like I said in the post I believe Ford is better. |
Without taking injuries into account, I also give the edge to Ford. Taj may be more versatile, but Ford is absolutely a dominant force on the court when healthy. Ford has an entirely different impact on the game than any other WNBA player given the intimidating physicality and dominant rebounding that she brings along with her defensive skills. |
If Taj is blocking more shots and getting more steals, it makes her a better defender. Who cares if it's because she has longer arms? That's like me saying, "you're only stronger than I am because you have bigger muscles." I also disagree that Ford is more mobile, I think that's very close. Anyway, the defensive argument is most definitely closer than the offensive argument, so it must be agreed that Taj is the better all-around player, though I did acknowledge and will again, that Ford is indeed a special player who brings things no other player can. How can you say, however, that she's got none of the things Taj has on offense, but is a better player? That's ridiculous.
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DTP
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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Location: Ohio
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| Posted: 10/07/08 7:05 am ::: |
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| PattyforPresident wrote: |
| LibWNBAFan wrote: |
| DTP wrote: |
Taj is longer so she's able to get her hands up and get more blocks but that doesn't make her the better defensive player. Ford is a little more mobile, more athletic, she has quick hands as well....she gets a ton of steals on guards, very physical, and just a hell of a defender when she's healthy. Offensively, she doesn't have the range, passing ability, or handles of Taj but like I said in the post I believe Ford is better. |
Without taking injuries into account, I also give the edge to Ford. Taj may be more versatile, but Ford is absolutely a dominant force on the court when healthy. Ford has an entirely different impact on the game than any other WNBA player given the intimidating physicality and dominant rebounding that she brings along with her defensive skills. |
If Taj is blocking more shots and getting more steals, it makes her a better defender. Who cares if it's because she has longer arms? That's like me saying, "you're only stronger than I am because you have bigger muscles." I also disagree that Ford is more mobile, I think that's very close. Anyway, the defensive argument is most definitely closer than the offensive argument, so it must be agreed that Taj is the better all-around player, though I did acknowledge and will again, that Ford is indeed a special player who brings things no other player can. How can you say, however, that she's got none of the things Taj has on offense, but is a better player? That's ridiculous. |
Taj doesn't get more steals than Cheryl though. This year yeah but she was never really 100% this year so is it really fair to go off this year? Lets go off the previous two years though, in 2006 Ford 1.2spg and Taj 1.1 and then in 2007 Ford 1.9spg and Taj 1.2. Same thing with the blocks...in 2006 and 2007 Taj averaged 1.0bpg...Ford 0.8 in 2006 and 0.7 in 2007...not that much of a difference. And Ford gets most of her steals and blocks are athleticism as Taj mostly off her length.
And just because Taj can do more things offensively doesn't necessarily means she's better. She's more versatile offensively for sure...but give me Ford down low any day. Ford 13.8ppg in 06 and 13.0 in 07 as Taj 12.8 in 07 and 11.1 in 07.
To me, Ford is the better overall player...
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PattyforPresident
Joined: 25 Sep 2008
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| Posted: 10/07/08 7:14 am ::: |
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| DTP wrote: |
| PattyforPresident wrote: |
| LibWNBAFan wrote: |
| DTP wrote: |
Taj is longer so she's able to get her hands up and get more blocks but that doesn't make her the better defensive player. Ford is a little more mobile, more athletic, she has quick hands as well....she gets a ton of steals on guards, very physical, and just a hell of a defender when she's healthy. Offensively, she doesn't have the range, passing ability, or handles of Taj but like I said in the post I believe Ford is better. |
Without taking injuries into account, I also give the edge to Ford. Taj may be more versatile, but Ford is absolutely a dominant force on the court when healthy. Ford has an entirely different impact on the game than any other WNBA player given the intimidating physicality and dominant rebounding that she brings along with her defensive skills. |
If Taj is blocking more shots and getting more steals, it makes her a better defender. Who cares if it's because she has longer arms? That's like me saying, "you're only stronger than I am because you have bigger muscles." I also disagree that Ford is more mobile, I think that's very close. Anyway, the defensive argument is most definitely closer than the offensive argument, so it must be agreed that Taj is the better all-around player, though I did acknowledge and will again, that Ford is indeed a special player who brings things no other player can. How can you say, however, that she's got none of the things Taj has on offense, but is a better player? That's ridiculous. |
Taj doesn't get more steals than Cheryl though. This year yeah but she was never really 100% this year so is it really fair to go off this year? Lets go off the previous two years though, in 2006 Ford 1.2spg and Taj 1.1 and then in 2007 Ford 1.9spg and Taj 1.2. Same thing with the blocks...in 2006 and 2007 Taj averaged 1.0bpg...Ford 0.8 in 2006 and 0.7 in 2007...not that much of a difference. And Ford gets most of her steals and blocks are athleticism as Taj mostly off her length.
And just because Taj can do more things offensively doesn't necessarily means she's better. She's more versatile offensively for sure...but give me Ford down low any day. Ford 13.8ppg in 06 and 13.0 in 07 as Taj 12.8 in 07 and 11.1 in 07.
To me, Ford is the better overall player... |
If I'm looking at career numbers and this year, Taj is better. That's all we've got. Who cares who was better last year or the year before? If Ford is better next year, I'll say it. I love Taj though and if it's close, my bias goes that way. Having attended every Liberty game this season, I saw her play 9 times and she always kills us. You probably like Ford more. It's cool. Taj certainly has more tools though and that's why I call her better all-around. It's two different takes, I suppose and next year if they're both healthy and on the same team, we might get a better idea. I certainly hope SFO starts them together and sends Braxton to the bench. I'm sure you agree, they're both better than "All-Star" Kara.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 10/07/08 7:36 am ::: |
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| PattyforPresident wrote: |
| If Taj is blocking more shots and getting more steals, it makes her a better defender. Who cares if it's because she has longer arms? That's like me saying, "you're only stronger than I am because you have bigger muscles." I also disagree that Ford is more mobile, I think that's very close. Anyway, the defensive argument is most definitely closer than the offensive argument, so it must be agreed that Taj is the better all-around player, though I did acknowledge and will again, that Ford is indeed a special player who brings things no other player can. How can you say, however, that she's got none of the things Taj has on offense, but is a better player? That's ridiculous. |
If you say Ford has none of the things that Taj has on offense, you're dead wrong. Taj averages barely a point more in three more minutes per game. Per 40 minutes they are virtually identical.
Blocking more shots and getting more steals doesn't necessarily indicate a better defender. And again, per 40 minutes they are virtually identical.
I'd take Ford over Taj any day.
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PattyforPresident
Joined: 25 Sep 2008
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| Posted: 10/07/08 7:48 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| PattyforPresident wrote: |
| If Taj is blocking more shots and getting more steals, it makes her a better defender. Who cares if it's because she has longer arms? That's like me saying, "you're only stronger than I am because you have bigger muscles." I also disagree that Ford is more mobile, I think that's very close. Anyway, the defensive argument is most definitely closer than the offensive argument, so it must be agreed that Taj is the better all-around player, though I did acknowledge and will again, that Ford is indeed a special player who brings things no other player can. How can you say, however, that she's got none of the things Taj has on offense, but is a better player? That's ridiculous. |
If you say Ford has none of the things that Taj has on offense, you're dead wrong. Taj averages barely a point more in three more minutes per game. Per 40 minutes they are virtually identical.
Blocking more shots and getting more steals doesn't necessarily indicate a better defender. And again, per 40 minutes they are virtually identical.
I'd take Ford over Taj any day. |
Ford doesn't have nearly the range, ball handling or passing ability on offense that Taj has.
ETA: More SPG + More BPG=More production. More production=better defender.
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gracie
Joined: 13 Jul 2008
Posts: 98
Location: cape cod massachusetts
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| Posted: 10/07/08 8:52 am ::: taj and shock |
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I am a Connecticut Sun fan and never saw
Taj play this well when she was with the Suns. She spent more time looking at her nails than trying to score...so guess the Sun group wasnt to her liking.
I think winning in 3 is great for Detroit, bad for first time wnba fans because it was almost boring to watch the same thing happen over 3 games..no defense, no consistent shooting for San Antonio..i now think new york could have won at least one if not two games and it would have been tons more fun to watch!
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TweetyMulatto
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 10/07/08 6:26 pm ::: |
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| PattyforPresident wrote: |
| ETA: More SPG + More BPG=More production. More production=better defender. |
A statement like that is really just going to make people wonder if you know anything whatsoever about basketball. Numbers and statistics, especially on defense, a notoriously difficult aspect of the game to statistically quantify, do not remotely tell you everything about a player's defense.
Allen Iverson is constantly near the top of the NBA in steals - awful defender regardless. Amare Stoudamire was top-six in the NBA last season in blocks - atrocious defender regardless. Steals and blocks doesn't even come close to telling the whole story about a player's defensive ability.
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bballfan2005
Joined: 22 Aug 2005
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| Posted: 10/07/08 6:32 pm ::: |
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| There was a reason why Ebony Hoffman pushed the Indiana/Detroit series to a Game 3...
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cherrystreet
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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| Posted: 10/07/08 6:36 pm ::: |
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I actually think Cheryl is better defensively with her bodying up and rebounding. Taj is better offensively specifically because of her range and passing. I would put both in the top 15 of post players.
As for defensive stats, if we can't count them then we have to take the awards from Swoopes, Catchings, Yo, Leslie, and Jackson. They all earned them because of those factors.
Last edited by cherrystreet on 10/07/08 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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mercfan3
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cherrystreet
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| Posted: 10/07/08 6:43 pm ::: |
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| Why was that bballfan? Was it because Ford was hurt and Pierson was flipped? You are right. Taj was having a hard time staying with her. It's hard to point to that game however. Ebony in the next game got nothing with Taj guarding her. That was probably because of all the publicity she received.
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pilight
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 10/07/08 6:51 pm ::: |
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| cherrystreet wrote: |
| As for defensive stats, if we can't count them then we have to take the awards from Swoopes, Catchings, Yo, Leslie, and Jackson. They all earned them because of those factors. |
Hardly. They all earned those with numbers as contributing factors, but the first three at the very least, and arguably all five, earned them with their ability to shut opposition players down and have a huge impact on the defensive end for their teams.
Just because A likely results in B, doesn't mean B implies A. In this case, while great defenders will often be reasonably high in those basic statistical categories, being high in those categories does not necessarily make you a great defender.
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PattyforPresident
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cherrystreet
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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| Posted: 10/07/08 7:26 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy, I agree with you. I was just playing devil's advocate.
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DTP
Joined: 24 Dec 2005
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| Posted: 10/07/08 7:48 pm ::: |
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| cherrystreet wrote: |
I actually think Cheryl is better defensively with her bodying up and rebounding. Taj is better offensively specifically because of her range and passing. I would put both in the top 15 of post players.
As for defensive stats, if we can't count them then we have to take the awards from Swoopes, Catchings, Yo, Leslie, and Jackson. They all earned them because of those factors. |
Top 15? I'd say Ford is up with the top 5 when healthy. LJ, Leslie, ... no one else jumps off the top of my head as better than Ford besides them two so I'd say Ford is top 3. Possibly Dupree but if you asked me, I'd take Ford over Dupree....maybe in a year or so I won't say that because I think Dupree will be great but right now I'd take a healthy Ford over Dupree.
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cherrystreet
Joined: 24 Jul 2005
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| Posted: 10/07/08 8:57 pm ::: |
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No DTP, I agree. They are both might be in the top ten. Top Fifteen may have been to low. Ford has to come with a little more offense. And be healthy for a complete season.
1. LJ 2. Parker 3. Leslie 4. Thompson 5. Ford 6. Dupree 7.Janell 8.Wauters 9.Brunson 10. Fowles 11.Taj 12. Sutton-Brown 13.Pierson/DMJ 14. Braxton/Tan Smith 15. ?
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psheehy
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psheehy
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