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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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 Posted: 06/26/19 7:12 pm ::: |
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was all in oon drafting Durr as I wanted more offense Durr has brought that we haven't had a 2nd double digit scorer in 3 seasons and now we have a 2nd and 3rd Durr and Nurse play well together on the offensive end and if Charles percentages were higher we could probably simply out score other teams.
But our defense is bad worst in the league bad guards as well as posts have career games against us. I am not sure how to solve that as similar liberty teams were always strong on the defensive end
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 06/26/19 7:44 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I think it would be a significant achievement for the Liberty and Smith to reach .500 this season, which I doubt they can.
Horses make horse races. Whatever her coaching immaturities, Smith doesn't have thoroughbreds. This should be no surprise anyone who regularly writes here about the team, since every player, with the possible exception of Nurse, is regularly disparaged by said regular writers. |
Is Durr regularly disparaged? I think I’m the only one who’s been critical, but that was mostly pre-season. I like her and her game. I just think Collier would have helped more with just as much upside. With that being said, I still really like Durr. |
You're right -- newcomer Durr has been relatively immune from criticism so far, except perhaps for not shooting enough.
By the way, I don't mean to single out NYL fans as being unusually hypercritical. That's my impression of this entire site -- what's left of it. Anytime I log into any game thread or any team thread, I'm 100% sure I'll read about 80% negative comments. Many of same people here who decry the lack of interest in the WNBA -- and even go so far as to accuse uninterested sports fans of being sexist, racist and homophobic -- themselves continuously post negativity about almost all things WNBA. The players stink. The coaches stink. The offense stinks. The defense stinks. The stadiums stinks. The draft stinks. The playoff format stinks. The All-Star game is a joke. The WNBA website stinks. The WNBA streaming stinks.
Sorry for the rant, but to my old brain this becomes so tedious if not hypocritical.
On the positive side, since I do like to write, I actually appreciate (and read) anyone here who takes the time to post any sort of reasonable information, opinion, analysis . . . or rant. |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
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| Posted: 06/26/19 8:26 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I think it would be a significant achievement for the Liberty and Smith to reach .500 this season, which I doubt they can.
Horses make horse races. Whatever her coaching immaturities, Smith doesn't have thoroughbreds. This should be no surprise anyone who regularly writes here about the team, since every player, with the possible exception of Nurse, is regularly disparaged by said regular writers. |
Is Durr regularly disparaged? I think I’m the only one who’s been critical, but that was mostly pre-season. I like her and her game. I just think Collier would have helped more with just as much upside. With that being said, I still really like Durr. |
You're right -- newcomer Durr has been relatively immune from criticism so far, except perhaps for not shooting enough.
By the way, I don't mean to single out NYL fans as being unusually hypercritical. That's my impression of this entire site -- what's left of it. Anytime I log into any game thread or any team thread, I'm 100% sure I'll read about 80% negative comments. Many of same people here who decry the lack of interest in the WNBA -- and even go so far as to accuse uninterested sports fans of being sexist, racist and homophobic -- themselves continuously post negativity about almost all things WNBA. The players stink. The coaches stink. The offense stinks. The defense stinks. The stadiums stinks. The draft stinks. The playoff format stinks. The All-Star game is a joke. The WNBA website stinks. The WNBA streaming stinks.
Sorry for the rant, but to my old brain this becomes so tedious if not hypocritical.
On the positive side, since I do like to write, I actually appreciate (and read) anyone here who takes the time to post any sort of reasonable information, opinion, analysis . . . or rant. |
Totally hear you on that. Though I’ll say in fairness to NY fans, we were 3 games away from the all-time WNBA losing streak. And Katie is 10-34. That’s not an ideal scenario for positivity.
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sportsfan48
Joined: 17 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/27/19 2:10 am ::: |
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| On a positive side of the negativity of the NY fans, most may complain but they also offer suggestions for solutions.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 06/27/19 6:15 pm ::: |
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I watched the France game to get a good look at Johannes. I wound up extremely impressed. I've still have limited viewing, but she certainly checks a lot of boxes and appears to me to be a WNBA-ready contributor.
She was 3-12 today but those numbers weren't my focus as I think her shooting numbers in general speak for themselves. Looking more at her attributes I thought her basketball IQ was exceptionally high. She has the innate understanding of when to initiate a pattern in which other people will be the focal points and when to make a highlight-reel pass or at least one leading directly to a lay up. Which she did by my count at least 4 times today. I do believe she would eventually make a successful transition to WNBA point guard...and I think the Liberty schedule benefits a potential transition to backup PG minutes this season. There's two extended periods of days off in July to potentially enable that. She has the vision, she has the IQ and her handle looks to be pretty good. But most of all she's unselfish. She didn't force one shot, and made all the simple, quick passes either to run offense or to find open shooters. The Liberty really, really need that. Unselfishness is contagious. Ball movement is contagious. Johannes is flat-out a better passer than anyone on the New York Liberty roster. By "anyone" I'm being literal. From the moment she puts on a Liberty jersey and learns the system (it's not going to take long) she will become the best passer on the New York Liberty. This type of player can enable winning because all she cares about is doing whatever winning requires.
The one partial downside is defense. Her lateral movement is very clunky. She can be beaten one-on-one by WNBA guards. However, she has a couple of positives too. First, her fundamentals are really good. She knows when to switch, she knows when to get over screens, she knows when to trail, she has decent elevation. Her lateral movement being limited, there's times she's going to get beaten, but if Lindsay Whalen could be on a top-ranked defense with Lynx teams (even pre-Fowles), then Johannes can do it with the right people around her. Right now, the Liberty don't have those people. But that's why I'm watching Stokes next. 10 and 8 with 2 steals and 2 blocks in 35 minutes against the Italian national team isn't much of a gauge of WNBA readiness. But I'll be looking for activity and explosiveness. A healthy Stokes early in her career enabled the Liberty to play far better defense than an unhealthy or absent Stokes. She covered for a number of deficiencies and mistakes on the team defensively. I'm hoping that (return to defensive form) looks good. Zahui is still growing as a player too. The offense is there, we know that. The defense has been hit or miss so far. Can it improve further? Maybe this type of experience being the dominant player on a team in a major competition will enable her development further.
At minimum, if Stokes is good to go, she adds to a post rotation that should be very, very good at rebounding once they're all integrated. The fact that they have limited games between 7/7 and 8/1 is a major plus, IMO. There will be some practice time, there will be rest time and there will be time to at least learn the plays and stuff even during the all-star break on their own for anyone so inclined. By 8/1, if healthy, they will go 10-deep. Going 10-deep is a hell of a lot better than going 8-deep when trying to push tempo. Instead of wearing yourselves out, you stand a good chance of wearing out the opposition. Not a bad thing, especially when you have some clusters of home games.
Right now, being shorthanded, the 7/5 and 7/7 games don't look good. The travel is terrible, it's a period of 3 games in 5 days and the matchups are unfavorable. Otherwise, the Libs, even while shorthanded, should be able to match up reasonably well to Dallas, Atlanta and Seattle. With this team, anything can happen. They're young, Tina is finding her way and Boyd alternates between spectacular and making you want to scream. They could lose all 3. But unlike other matchups, they can also win all 3. 2 out of 3 is imperative in my mind if they're going to put themselves in a position where a significant second-half push would make the season meaningful. There's little doubt in my mind that the next 3 games will go a long way toward determining if we are in the Ionescu running, playing for a fringe playoff spot or something more. Remember, a 1-10 team once made the WNBA finals. Nothing is assured either way and there is talent here. I'm not making predictions or forecasting anything just yet. But I haven't given up on the team making a run either.
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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 06/27/19 7:14 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 06/27/19 6:38 pm ::: |
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| Allen still out for tomorrow night. No hardship player being signed.
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1138
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: 06/27/19 6:46 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I watched the France game to get a good look at Johannes. I wound up extremely impressed. I've still have limited viewing, but she certainly checks a lot of boxes and appears to me to be a WNBA-ready contributor.
She was 3-12 today but those numbers weren't my focus as I think her shooting numbers in general speak for themselves. Looking more at her attributes I thought her basketball IQ was exceptionally high. She has the innate understanding of when to initiate a pattern in which other people will be the focal points and when to make a highlight-reel pass or at least one leading directly to a lay up. Which she did by my count at least 4 times today. I do believe she would eventually make a successful transition to WNBA point guard...and I think the Liberty schedule benefits a potential transition to backup PG minutes this season. There's two extended periods of days off in July to potentially enable that. She has the vision, she has the IQ and her handle looks to be pretty good. But most of all she's unselfish. She didn't force one shot, and made all the simple, quick passes either to run offense or to find open shooters. The Liberty really, really need that. Unselfishness is contagious. Ball movement is contagious. Johannes is flat-out a better passer than anyone on the New York Liberty roster. By "anyone" I'm being literal. From the moment she puts on a Liberty jersey and learns the system (it's not going to take long) she will become the best passer on the New York Liberty. This type of player can enable winning because all she cares about is doing whatever winning requires.
The one partial downside is defense. Her lateral movement is very clunky. She can be beaten one-on-one by WNBA guards. However, she has a couple of positives too. First, her fundamentals are really good. She knows when to switch, she knows when to get over screens, she knows when to trail, she has decent elevation. Her lateral movement being limited, there's times she's going to get beaten, but if Lindsay Whalen could be on a top-ranked defense with Lynx teams (even pre-Fowles), then Johannes can do it with the right people around her. Right now, the Liberty don't have those people. But that's why I'm watching Stokes next. 10 and 8 with 2 steals and 2 blocks in 35 minutes against the Italian national team isn't much of a gauge of WNBA readiness. But I'll be looking for activity and explosiveness. A healthy Stokes early in her career enabled the Liberty to play far better defense than an unhealthy or absent Stokes. She covered for a number of deficiencies and mistakes on the team defensively. I'm hoping that (return to defensive form) looks good. Zahui is still growing as a player too. The offense is there, we know that. The defense has been hit or miss so far. Can it improve further? Maybe this type of experience being the dominant player on a team in a major competition will enable her development further.
At minimum, if Stokes is good to go, she adds to a post rotation that should be very, very good at rebounding once they're all integrated. The fact that they have limited games between 7/7 and 8/1 is a major plus, IMO. There will be some practice time, there will be rest time and there will be time to at least learn the plays and stuff even during the all-star break on their own for anyone so inclined. By 8/1, if healthy, they will go 10-deep. Going 10-deep is a hell of a lot better than going 8-deep when trying to push tempo. Instead of wearing yourselves out, you stand a good chance of wearing out the opposition. Not a bad thing, especially when you have some clusters of home games.
Right now, being shorthanded, the 7/5 and 7/7 games don't look good. The travel is terrible and the matchups are unfavorable. Otherwise, the Libs, even while shorthanded, should be able to match up reasonably well to Dallas, Atlanta and Seattle. With this team, anything can happen. They're young, Tina is finding her way and Boyd alternates between spectacular and making you want to scream. They could lose all 3. But unlike other matchups, they can also win all 3. 2 out of 3 is imperative in my mind if they're going to put themselves in a position where a significant second-half push would make the season meaningful. There's little doubt in my mind that the next 3 games will go a long way toward determining if we are in the Ionescu running, playing for a fringe playoff spot or something more. Remember, a 1-10 team once made the WNBA finals. Nothing is assured either way and there is talent here. I'm not making predictions or forecasting anything just yet. But I haven't given up on the team making a run either. |
That is a great report on Johannes; I love great passers and I can't wait to see her play. Where can you watch the EuroBasket games? And who do our players play for (I know Stokes plays for Turkey, but I forgot where Hartley and Zahui B play).
It sounds like Johannes may be a defensive player in the mold of former Knicks point guard Mark Jackson. His defense was always maligned because he couldn't even guard a coke machine, but he could always be counted on to be where he was supposed to be. I always said that his defensive ability was something that a good coach could easily work with.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
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| Posted: 06/27/19 6:47 pm ::: |
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| If Megdal's salary data is correct, the Libs are about 5K under the cap, obviously nowhere near being able to sign a player. If the data is correct, Hartley, Wright and Kiah are in the final years of their respective deals that are about 290K in total. That gives the Libs a lot of cap flexibility moving forward, particularly if a high draft choice snares a starting spot next year at a low price. I was certainly mixed on the Zahui and Stokes deals entering the season. I thought those who questioned those deals were definitely legit in their concern. But they do look somewhat better now that Zahui appears to be on the rise and Kiah only had this year remaining on her deal. Maybe the need to prove herself will be just what she needs.
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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 06/27/19 7:01 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
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| Posted: 06/27/19 6:48 pm ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I watched the France game to get a good look at Johannes. I wound up extremely impressed. I've still have limited viewing, but she certainly checks a lot of boxes and appears to me to be a WNBA-ready contributor.
She was 3-12 today but those numbers weren't my focus as I think her shooting numbers in general speak for themselves. Looking more at her attributes I thought her basketball IQ was exceptionally high. She has the innate understanding of when to initiate a pattern in which other people will be the focal points and when to make a highlight-reel pass or at least one leading directly to a lay up. Which she did by my count at least 4 times today. I do believe she would eventually make a successful transition to WNBA point guard...and I think the Liberty schedule benefits a potential transition to backup PG minutes this season. There's two extended periods of days off in July to potentially enable that. She has the vision, she has the IQ and her handle looks to be pretty good. But most of all she's unselfish. She didn't force one shot, and made all the simple, quick passes either to run offense or to find open shooters. The Liberty really, really need that. Unselfishness is contagious. Ball movement is contagious. Johannes is flat-out a better passer than anyone on the New York Liberty roster. By "anyone" I'm being literal. From the moment she puts on a Liberty jersey and learns the system (it's not going to take long) she will become the best passer on the New York Liberty. This type of player can enable winning because all she cares about is doing whatever winning requires.
The one partial downside is defense. Her lateral movement is very clunky. She can be beaten one-on-one by WNBA guards. However, she has a couple of positives too. First, her fundamentals are really good. She knows when to switch, she knows when to get over screens, she knows when to trail, she has decent elevation. Her lateral movement being limited, there's times she's going to get beaten, but if Lindsay Whalen could be on a top-ranked defense with Lynx teams (even pre-Fowles), then Johannes can do it with the right people around her. Right now, the Liberty don't have those people. But that's why I'm watching Stokes next. 10 and 8 with 2 steals and 2 blocks in 35 minutes against the Italian national team isn't much of a gauge of WNBA readiness. But I'll be looking for activity and explosiveness. A healthy Stokes early in her career enabled the Liberty to play far better defense than an unhealthy or absent Stokes. She covered for a number of deficiencies and mistakes on the team defensively. I'm hoping that (return to defensive form) looks good. Zahui is still growing as a player too. The offense is there, we know that. The defense has been hit or miss so far. Can it improve further? Maybe this type of experience being the dominant player on a team in a major competition will enable her development further.
At minimum, if Stokes is good to go, she adds to a post rotation that should be very, very good at rebounding once they're all integrated. The fact that they have limited games between 7/7 and 8/1 is a major plus, IMO. There will be some practice time, there will be rest time and there will be time to at least learn the plays and stuff even during the all-star break on their own for anyone so inclined. By 8/1, if healthy, they will go 10-deep. Going 10-deep is a hell of a lot better than going 8-deep when trying to push tempo. Instead of wearing yourselves out, you stand a good chance of wearing out the opposition. Not a bad thing, especially when you have some clusters of home games.
Right now, being shorthanded, the 7/5 and 7/7 games don't look good. The travel is terrible, there's 3 games in 5 days and the matchups are unfavorable. Otherwise, the Libs, even while shorthanded, should be able to match up reasonably well to Dallas, Atlanta and Seattle. With this team, anything can happen. They're young, Tina is finding her way and Boyd alternates between spectacular and making you want to scream. They could lose all 3. But unlike other matchups, they can also win all 3. 2 out of 3 is imperative in my mind if they're going to put themselves in a position where a significant second-half push would make the season meaningful. There's little doubt in my mind that the next 3 games will go a long way toward determining if we are in the Ionescu running, playing for a fringe playoff spot or something more. Remember, a 1-10 team once made the WNBA finals. Nothing is assured either way and there is talent here. I'm not making predictions or forecasting anything just yet. But I haven't given up on the team making a run either. |
That is a great report on Johannes; I love great passers and I can't wait to see her play. Where can you watch the EuroBasket games? And who do our players play for (I know Stokes plays for Turkey, but I forgot where Hartley and Zahui B play).
It sounds like Johannes may be a defensive player in the mold of former Knicks point guard Mark Jackson. His defense was always maligned because he couldn't even guard a coke machine, but he could always be counted on to be where he was supposed to be. I always said that his defensive ability was something that a good coach could easily work with. |
ESPN+. 4.99 a month. It's a great deal particularly if you have a taste in a variety of sports, which you seem to.
Hartley and Johannes, France. Zahui Sweden. Johannes bring intangibles AND skill level of a vet. That's a big deal, especially in a relatively young player. Nurse has some too but she's not a passer yet. Although she did take a charge when the Libs were losing to Vegas by 32. These types of intangibles are easily underestimated, but when they're combined with talent, they become a really big deal. Who takes a freaking charge when their team is down by 32? Kia Nurse. That's one of the reasons why I said I felt the Liberty were showing some character traits of winning teams even though they weren't winning yet. Last year, they honestly played like a team that had mostly given up. This year, they play like a team that's mostly hungry but short on depth and defense. Yeah their post defense looks like a turnstile at times but I think the team is still for the most part playing hard physically. Intangibles turn losses into wins. A team with Wright, Johannes and Nurse is going to have those. To me, it matters. Especially when their need areas (cohesion, depth and defense) will potentially be much better entering August.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22482
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 06/28/19 1:46 pm ::: |
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| Liberty have signed Avery Warley-Talbert to a hardship exemption contract. She's expected to be dressed for tonight's game. Makes .e believe Raincock-Ekunwe will be used more as the backup SF.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 06/28/19 1:51 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Liberty have signed Avery Warley-Talbert to a hardship exemption contract. She's expected to be dressed for tonight's game. Makes .e believe Raincock-Ekunwe will be used more as the backup SF. |
Good news. I'm glad New York will have another player for a few games.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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Location: NJ
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| Posted: 06/28/19 2:11 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| Liberty have signed Avery Warley-Talbert to a hardship exemption contract. She's expected to be dressed for tonight's game. Makes .e believe Raincock-Ekunwe will be used more as the backup SF. |
Good news. I'm glad New York will have another player for a few games. |
Yeah, probably the next 5 games. She knows the system, so it was likely either her or Megan Huff. Hope Han Xu still gets minutes though.
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 1138
Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: 06/28/19 2:24 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Who takes a freaking charge when their team is down by 32? Kia Nurse. That's one of the reasons why I said I felt the Liberty were showing some character traits of winning teams even though they weren't winning yet. Last year, they honestly played like a team that had mostly given up. This year, they play like a team that's mostly hungry but short on depth and defense. |
I'm in 100% agreement. Last year was a disgrace: the games were very disheartening because of how quickly they gave up during adversity. It was one of the worst examples of that I've ever seen, and it was a major factor for me being done with Katie Smith after just one year. This year, I've been looking forward to a good effort every time I tune in, and for the most part, they've delivered.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 06/28/19 3:42 pm ::: |
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| When I referenced the salary cap, I’m assuming a hardship player can go over the cap and I hadn’t accounted for it. I’m glad it’s AWT. I think most of us figured it would be. Her physicality and rebounding will be welcomed against a physical Dallas team whose only tremendously positive characteristic is rebound percentage.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 06/28/19 3:44 pm ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Who takes a freaking charge when their team is down by 32? Kia Nurse. That's one of the reasons why I said I felt the Liberty were showing some character traits of winning teams even though they weren't winning yet. Last year, they honestly played like a team that had mostly given up. This year, they play like a team that's mostly hungry but short on depth and defense. |
I'm in 100% agreement. Last year was a disgrace: the games were very disheartening because of how quickly they gave up during adversity. It was one of the worst examples of that I've ever seen, and it was a major factor for me being done with Katie Smith after just one year. This year, I've been looking forward to a good effort every time I tune in, and for the most part, they've delivered. |
No question.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 06/29/19 9:58 am ::: |
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| NYSports56 wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Who takes a freaking charge when their team is down by 32? Kia Nurse. That's one of the reasons why I said I felt the Liberty were showing some character traits of winning teams even though they weren't winning yet. Last year, they honestly played like a team that had mostly given up. This year, they play like a team that's mostly hungry but short on depth and defense. |
I'm in 100% agreement. Last year was a disgrace: the games were very disheartening because of how quickly they gave up during adversity. It was one of the worst examples of that I've ever seen, and it was a major factor for me being done with Katie Smith after just one year. This year, I've been looking forward to a good effort every time I tune in, and for the most part, they've delivered. |
How much of last year then was anger over Westchester and Dolan
How much was it Katie
How much of it was personnel (Vaughn Prince Rogers)
To me it was 50 20 30
Before you say hey happycappie we are still im wcc yes but under Joe and with more power (and $$$$$) to keia Clarke as well as housing and practicing on Brooklyn I think there's optimism even on fans there that were out of that dump next year and they can play with a purpose again...i think that's a HUGE deal
Still don't like Katie...interestyng to see Charmin in her last game charged the ref all the way to the end of the box with no call...wow but I'll take the fire
Now does spoon get elevated or does farris return? Big question
I think where we are at Aug 11 will be a big direction finder on if we hover round the 8 or bow out to get high odds at inoescu
Boyd stated her case with a triple 7...good numbers but we need that every game from her to justify her over tanking for a crack at Sabrina and a decent booby prize in Dangerfield
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 06/29/19 10:11 am ::: |
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| Dangerfield a lottery pick? The 2020 draft isn’t quite that bad. I have her at #6 at this point, so no need to do anything drastic to get her. She might be a little more disciplined than Boyd, but she’s certainly not a franchise-changer to be dreaming about this far in advance.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 06/29/19 11:48 am ::: |
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| Liberty probably will have the best odds at the #1 pick (Ionescu). If we don't land the #1 pick, I hope Dallas does as they'd be better suited to take Cox than Ionescu since they already have Diggins and Jefferson. Then Liberty still get Ionescu at #2.
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018
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Location: New Jersey, USA
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| Posted: 06/29/19 1:34 pm ::: |
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| Happycappie25 wrote: |
How much of last year then was anger over Westchester and Dolan
How much was it Katie
How much of it was personnel (Vaughn Prince Rogers)
To me it was 50 20 30 |
Cool question! I think you're overrating the Westchester move. I hope you are. These are professionals who should be able to excel on whatever court they play on.
I do not discount the emotional factor involved with the move. I feel absolutely terrible for our players that they are no longer playing in the Garden. That must have been so amazing! They must have felt that they were living the dream there, especially Tina. Home court, Mecca. The crowds were of course larger. If an after-party was appropriate, the Manhattan night life awaited.
Westchester was both disorienting and disheartening, but wouldn't you rather the narrative of the season been one of a team overcoming these types of things? Those stories exist too, and that's why I think it's a lot more on the players and coaches.
I think the most of it is on Katie. It was her job to minimize the effect of these outside distractions upon the team. To me, that means that Katie is at least as responsible as the outside distractions themselves.
Smith seemed to call decent plays after timeouts, but that's the only good thing I have to say about the job she did last year. Her decisions on who to have on the court at what time left me bewildered at times, particularly when it came to the bigs. I don't think she handled Nurse as badly as some posters her do, but that doesn't mean I think she handled it well.
I think the bottom line is motivation. Katie was not up to the task. She took over a team with a reputation of playing hard and playing good defense, with basically the same players. Last season's trainwreck had none of that. The team seemed to lose all focus and desire at the first sign of adversity. There can be no doubt whatsoever that Bill Laimbeer motivated these players better than Katie did last year.
Katie gets no benefit of the doubt because she's a rookie here, because we're only examining the degree of the effect upon last season's disaster.
The players need to take some responsibility as well. I don't think Katie ever quit as a coach. The carelessness with which the players played when their heads were not in the game was disgraceful. And we didn't have a most improved player on the team, that's for sure. Nobody stepped up to give us any kind of perimeter threat. The posts besides Tina were liabilities on at least one side of the court. And again, anything on the move to Westchester is also on the players, the same way it's on Katie.
So I would say:
55% Katie
30% players
15% Westchester move
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 06/29/19 10:03 pm ::: |
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im not taking Westchester move in a vaccum nor can you as they are playing much better at home this year and seem motivated to play for the new audience...I was as much on them having no clue if there would be a team, and history not being on their side. Tense crowds etc.
I agree I had it a little wrong, but the totality of circumstances, some of the comments dolan was making etc had to be very disheartening.
That said I was NOT happy with Vaughn, Rodgers and Prince...it seems very much all 3 have played their final game in black and green. Good riddance.
Agree Katie was not the best motivator but she has lit a fire under these young players this year...We will see if this is really Katie or was it Charmin now that Charmin is going back to Cal.
Charles even said at the start of this year was upset about westchester, and her only hope was practiving in Brooklyn (Which I read other things into but ill be strict constructionist to what she said on this board)
yes westchester IS that bad (DT mentioned it without dropping the name when talking travel recently as well)
YES the team was that much in peril last year.
Joe does make that much a difference...even with retaining most of MSG's staff (And keeping Keia and Genesis was MASSIVE)
That said i thinking say
30 westchester
30 Katie
40 Personnel (Esp if you throw in duds like coleman)
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 14097
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| Posted: 06/30/19 1:35 pm ::: |
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Turkey has been eliminated from Eurobasket. If Kiah joins the team in either Seattle or Phoenix her minutes will probably be no more than 15. If she plays at all. Figuring the team is probably not going to practice at all between now and 7/7 anyway given the schedule, I wonder if the best decision isn’t just to let Kiah stay in NY, work out, and join the team for the LV game on 7/7. Play 15 minutes in that game max, then have some practice time in NY before they head to Chicago 5 days later where she’ll be at full strength.
Sweden is a likely candidate to be eliminated no later than July 4th. It’s possible they could be out by Tuesday. Zahui played extended minutes in preseason not long after she returned. If they’re eliminated Monday or Tuesday, she’d probably be good to play some minutes Friday though I wouldn’t object to her resting in NY and being ready for the LV game that might just be winnable if both Kiah and Zahui play.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22482
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 06/30/19 4:27 pm ::: |
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| Stokes and Zahui B will probably return for the July 12 game. I think the July 7 game (at home) would be too quick. Let them rest for nearly a week.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22482
Location: NJ
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| Posted: 06/30/19 6:07 pm ::: |
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| We're 5-7 now and on the border of the 8th spot(depends if Phoenix wins tonight). Our next few games on the road are tough, but this season it honestly feels like if we finish 14-18 we can sneak into the playoffs. It won't get us Ionescu next year, but probably Dangerfield unless we look at Te'a Cooper or Bella Alarie instead.
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LibFan25
Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 895
Location: NY
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| Posted: 06/30/19 7:35 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| We're 5-7 now and on the border of the 8th spot(depends if Phoenix wins tonight). Our next few games on the road are tough, but this season it honestly feels like if we finish 14-18 we can sneak into the playoffs. It won't get us Ionescu next year, but probably Dangerfield unless we look at Te'a Cooper or Bella Alarie instead. |
We definitely have a chance to make the playoffs, never even thought of it but the key to me will be zahui b and Boyd...and oh yeah Katie Smith.
On 2020 draft, ima be watching Odom from Duke closely. but lets worry about that in August when we see a clear view on where we stand
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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 4594
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 06/30/19 8:08 pm ::: |
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| LibFan25 wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| We're 5-7 now and on the border of the 8th spot(depends if Phoenix wins tonight). Our next few games on the road are tough, but this season it honestly feels like if we finish 14-18 we can sneak into the playoffs. It won't get us Ionescu next year, but probably Dangerfield unless we look at Te'a Cooper or Bella Alarie instead. |
We definitely have a chance to make the playoffs, never even thought of it but the key to me will be zahui b and Boyd...and oh yeah Katie Smith.
On 2020 draft, ima be watching Odom from Duke closely. but lets worry about that in August when we see a clear view on where we stand |
Lets not too carried away..we beat two teams that were worse then we were
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Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!
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