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Three-Way Fun?
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RI_Sun_Fan



Joined: 16 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 12:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think the league views it as a three way tie for thrid, fourth and fifth. Since you can rank the three teams third, fourth and fifth using the same criterion, then use it to rank all three.


Nerd2



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 1:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
It's the WNBA! of course it's nonsensical!


Expect Nonsense!

Quote:
Actually, it is perfectly logical. It is a 3 way tie. You need a way to rank these teams and the next way they have determined is the winning percentage for the teams as they play each other. In other words, a head 2 head 2 head matchup. Since one of the other tiebreaks is how you do against all other teams in the conference, how is this worse if you just match how you do against the other teams involved in the tiebreak? It's no less logical than one of the other tiebreaks where you match the winning percentages against any other team with > .500 record. Or, when all else fails, a coin toss.


It's a three way for third, which would be broken in favor of the Sparks. We all agree on that.

Once third is determined, we're left with a two way tie for 4th. Minnesota ought to win such a tie, as they were 3-2 against the SASS. Apparently they won't, however, because they struggled against LA.


But, but, why are we arguing about this when the WNBA employees have already asked the league how it is worked out? Pelton's word is the word of the Storm organization and I haven't known him to be wrong once he pops it onto the Storm website. Plus, PD has also verified it.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 1:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
But, but, why are we arguing about this when the WNBA employees have already asked the league how it is worked out? Pelton's word is the word of the Storm organization and I haven't known him to be wrong once he pops it onto the Storm website. Plus, PD has also verified it.


You've seen wnba.com, right?

I would not be at all surprised to see the league change their mind between now and Sunday.



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 08/21/10 1:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
But, but, why are we arguing about this when the WNBA employees have already asked the league how it is worked out? Pelton's word is the word of the Storm organization and I haven't known him to be wrong once he pops it onto the Storm website. Plus, PD has also verified it.


You've seen wnba.com, right?

I would not be at all surprised to see the league change their mind between now and Sunday.


Actually, the standings have followed the 3 way tie scenario consistently thoughout which is mentioned somewhere in the threads. I think the website is a poor reflection of the league but that's more to do with crappy and lazy web design. I think the league itself has had these numbers out there for a while and all sorts of if-then-else scenarios ready.


p_d_swanson



Joined: 01 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 1:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
You've seen wnba.com, right?

I would not be at all surprised to see the league change their mind between now and Sunday.

The unofficial rule of thumb has historically been whichever interpretation most benefits the Sparks is the one they use...


Nerd2



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 1:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

p_d_swanson wrote:
pilight wrote:
You've seen wnba.com, right?

I would not be at all surprised to see the league change their mind between now and Sunday.

The unofficial rule of thumb has historically been whichever interpretation most benefits the Sparks is the one they use...


Laughing


RI_Sun_Fan



Joined: 16 Jan 2010
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 2:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cute, although I think the Sparks would benefit more from a lottery pick (especially #1) than making the play-offs this year


Nerd2



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PostPosted: 08/21/10 2:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RI_Sun_Fan wrote:
Cute, although I think the Sparks would benefit more from a lottery pick (especially #1) than making the play-offs this year


Not according to Coach Thompson.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 8:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's something else interesting...

If New York and Indiana both lose their last game, both teams will have the same conference record and are 2-2 head-to-head. The Fever would hold the tiebreaker based on record against teams .500 or better. If they both win, the Lib would have a better conference record and would win a tiebreak over Indy.

That means if all three of Washington, New York, and Indiana lose we'll have a similar situation in the East. Washington would be 6-3, New York 4-5, and Indiana 3-5 in the three way head-to-head but Indiana would have the advantage in a two way over New York.



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StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10979
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 11:13 am    ::: Re: Three-Way Fun? Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Okay, now that that title got you interested, time to talk about the three-way tie again Wink...


Darn! And I thought you were proposing a menage-a-trois with some WNBA players! Razz


Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stat wonks- is there a scenario where the Liberty beating the Sun is actually harmful to their chances in a tie-break with Indiana and/or Washington?



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 08/21/10 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Stat wonks- is there a scenario where the Liberty beating the Sun is actually harmful to their chances in a tie-break with Indiana and/or Washington?


No. Losing to the Sun would be harmful in a two-way break against Indy. The Lib lose the break against Washington in all scenarios.



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mekanos



Joined: 21 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 08/22/10 12:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The .com
Quote:
For East Seedings
If WAS, NY and IND all win, there will be a three-way tie. Seedings would be #1. WAS, #2. NY and #3 IND because in head-to head among the three teams WAS will be 6-3, NY 4-5 and IND 3-5.


.com seems to say in a 3-way tie, all 3 positions are determined at the same time by the 3-way tie rule.


mekanos



Joined: 21 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 08/22/10 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And for the West .com says:
Quote:
For West Seeings:
If SA loses and MIN wins, SA, LA and MIN will be tied at 13-21. LA would finish #3, SA #4 by virtue of head-to-head record among the three teams...


Don't quite agree with this ruling.
Since MIN has already been eliminated and the playoff race for seeds #3 and #4 is only between SAS and LA, don't agree there should be a 3-way tie-breaking rule applied to that one.
Should be head-2-head with SAS winning it for the #3 spot (for the quoted scenario).


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66773
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PostPosted: 08/22/10 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mekanos wrote:
And for the West .com says:
Quote:
For West Seeings:
If SA loses and MIN wins, SA, LA and MIN will be tied at 13-21. LA would finish #3, SA #4 by virtue of head-to-head record among the three teams...


Don't quite agree with this ruling.
Since MIN has already been eliminated and the playoff race for seeds #3 and #4 is only between SAS and LA, don't agree there should be a 3-way tie-breaking rule applied to that one.
Should be head-2-head with SAS winning it for the #3 spot (for the quoted scenario).


The only reason Minnesota is eliminated is because they would apply the 3-way tie breaking rule.



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mekanos



Joined: 21 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: 08/22/10 2:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
mekanos wrote:
And for the West .com says:
Quote:
For West Seeings:
If SA loses and MIN wins, SA, LA and MIN will be tied at 13-21. LA would finish #3, SA #4 by virtue of head-to-head record among the three teams...


Don't quite agree with this ruling.
Since MIN has already been eliminated and the playoff race for seeds #3 and #4 is only between SAS and LA, don't agree there should be a 3-way tie-breaking rule applied to that one.
Should be head-2-head with SAS winning it for the #3 spot (for the quoted scenario).


The only reason Minnesota is eliminated is because they would apply the 3-way tie breaking rule.


Yes, I was aware that it seems that way, but ...
The doc-com can't both have MIN eliminated from the playoffs AND eligible for the 3-way tie rule. On dot-com Yesterday:
Minnesota o 12 21 o-Eliminated from Playoffs

To me, that breaks the spirit (if not the letter) of the rules posted above [K.2.c] to eliminate teams from the tie-breaking process. If its not clear, they (WNBA rule-makers) should add (6) A team that is eliminated (i.e. has no chance to win any tie-breakers according to the rules above in any scenarios), will participate no further in tie-breaking process.

Again, most everyone including the WNBA via their posted standings already have MIN as eliminated, as they should. So my read is MIN then should no longer be involved in tie-breakers.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 08/22/10 3:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mekanos wrote:
The doc-com can't both have MIN eliminated from the playoffs AND eligible for the 3-way tie rule.

Of course they can. All 'eliminated from the playoffs' means is that in any possible theoretical scenario, they still end up outside the top four. That's all it means at any stage in the season. Just because they're in that position doesn't mean you remove them from any future calculations.


braveniler58



Joined: 30 May 2007
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PostPosted: 08/22/10 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mekanos wrote:
pilight wrote:
mekanos wrote:
And for the West .com says:
Quote:
For West Seeings:
If SA loses and MIN wins, SA, LA and MIN will be tied at 13-21. LA would finish #3, SA #4 by virtue of head-to-head record among the three teams...


Don't quite agree with this ruling.
Since MIN has already been eliminated and the playoff race for seeds #3 and #4 is only between SAS and LA, don't agree there should be a 3-way tie-breaking rule applied to that one.
Should be head-2-head with SAS winning it for the #3 spot (for the quoted scenario).


The only reason Minnesota is eliminated is because they would apply the 3-way tie breaking rule.


Yes, I was aware that it seems that way, but ...
The doc-com can't both have MIN eliminated from the playoffs AND eligible for the 3-way tie rule. On dot-com Yesterday:
Minnesota o 12 21 o-Eliminated from Playoffs

To me, that breaks the spirit (if not the letter) of the rules posted above [K.2.c] to eliminate teams from the tie-breaking process. If its not clear, they (WNBA rule-makers) should add (6) A team that is eliminated (i.e. has no chance to win any tie-breakers according to the rules above in any scenarios), will participate no further in tie-breaking process.

Again, most everyone including the WNBA via their posted standings already have MIN as eliminated, as they should. So my read is MIN then should no longer be involved in tie-breakers.


The reason Minnesota is marked as eliminated from the playoffs is because no matter what happens, they aren't going to make it. A three-way tie with San Antonio, Los Angeles, and Minnesota is still possible, and they'll have to break ties -- but Minnesota will lose any possible tie-breakers; thus why they've been eliminated.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/22/10 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree with you, Mekanos, except on the other end. I don't think Minnesota should be out of the playoffs.



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