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Chantelle Anderson on Feminine vs Homophobic
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jaye



Joined: 12 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: 07/23/10 1:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
eclair wrote:
StevenHW wrote:
Thanks for sharing/posting this, Pilight!

I really wish Chantelle would publish that book that she was writing. But I guess there were some pressure from either the WNBA front office, or other players, or both, not to do so.

Now that she's retired from the WNBA, I see no reason why she can't.


Choosing whether ones book is published or not is a power most writers, even those who play in the W, don't have.


tell me about it... Sad



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StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: 07/23/10 9:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
eclair wrote:
StevenHW wrote:
Thanks for sharing/posting this, Pilight!

I really wish Chantelle would publish that book that she was writing. But I guess there were some pressure from either the WNBA front office, or other players, or both, not to do so.

Now that she's retired from the WNBA, I see no reason why she can't.


Choosing whether ones book is published or not is a power most writers, even those who play in the W, don't have.


Not unless Chantelle decides to publish it herself. Admittedly, self-published books are rare and difficult to sell. (Yes, there are exceptions, such as the Chicken Soup For Your Soul, The Celestine Prophecy, and What Color Is Your Parachute?)




Last edited by StevenHW on 07/23/10 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
caune



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 07/23/10 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
shrrew wrote:
Chantelle is on to something there. Really since the 70's when the feminist movement demonized everything feminine as the enemy, femme ladies regardless of their orientation have been bashed in nearly every occupation. I think especially in athletics where being feminine is not considers strong or competitive. Luckily in womens basketball the femmes are breaking the stereotypes! Cool

Thanks for speaking out Chantelle!


huh?
What movement were you watching? demonized everything feminine?
I don't remember it that way at all. I was young but my Mom was a very vocal participant in the movement while still matching her shoes to her handbag and making sure her flaming red hair and lipstick were just right before leaving the house.
Femme ladies as you call them have not been bashed in every occupation, in fact they've been celebrated in many like teaching and the arts and medicine to name a few.

you seem to be buying into Rush Limpdicks "feminazi" scenarios Shocked



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/23/10 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Two things:

Compare the extent of slavery in 2010 to the extent of slavery in 1710. Of course it still exists, as does serfdom, but no longer is either a significant part of the economic structure.

In my little suburban area, girls are not at all discouraged from playing sports at a young age by fears of being called a lesbian. It is completely normal for girls under the age of 12 to participate in one or more sports, and in fact, I'd say it would be considered odd if a girl never played soccer or was on the local swim team.

Once adolescence hits, Anderson may have a point, but again, I don't think many girls quit playing sports because they fear being branded as a sexual deviant (in the eyes of some). Almost all quit because they just don't like sports that much and would prefer to do something else -- which boys do as well.



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meliflaw



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PostPosted: 07/23/10 12:04 pm    ::: Pretty = Popular? Reply Reply with quote
GoIndeeeee wrote:
...I think it is problematic that she so unproblematically accepts the idea that certain athletes are popular because they are pretty. While male athletes are subjected to significantly less pressure to be attractive, it is still a part of who is marketed. Although some players are media stars based on their skills and personality (is anyone willing to argue that Shaq is attractive? I am not). Even though attractiveness is part of the formulation, shouldn't we strive to reduce the superficiality even if it is unlikely to change? It seems tragically nihilistic to concede that the world is flawed and cannot be changed.


While understanding, and sometimes agreeing with Anderson's points, I, too, balked at the pretty = popular formula. A star athlete often transcends conventional good looks (just the way a true movie star does), Taurasi being a case in point. She's hardly "pretty"--I think she's much better than pretty and so does my rather heterosexual husband--but it's her athletic genius and kickass spirit that make her such a pleasure to watch. She's gorgeous in her own way. I admire CP3, but Taurasi and Nolan and Pondexter are players I really enjoy.



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Scarab



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PostPosted: 07/23/10 12:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Chantelle's reading this thread. She just told me on Twitter she just signed up for a Rebkell account and will comment here as soon as it's approved.



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StevenHW



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PostPosted: 07/23/10 12:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
pilight wrote:
I talked to her a few weeks ago and she said it probably would be published in the near future.


Thanks for the info!

I would love to see an expose book on the WNBA, told by a former player, but similar in fashion to Jim Bouton's book Ball Four (1970), which was very controversial at the time (though tame by today's standards).
shrrew



Joined: 12 Nov 2007
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Location: Missouri


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PostPosted: 07/23/10 6:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
caune wrote:
shrrew wrote:
Chantelle is on to something there. Really since the 70's when the feminist movement demonized everything feminine as the enemy, femme ladies regardless of their orientation have been bashed in nearly every occupation. I think especially in athletics where being feminine is not considers strong or competitive. Luckily in womens basketball the femmes are breaking the stereotypes! Cool

Thanks for speaking out Chantelle!


huh?
What movement were you watching? demonized everything feminine?
I don't remember it that way at all. I was young but my Mom was a very vocal participant in the movement while still matching her shoes to her handbag and making sure her flaming red hair and lipstick were just right before leaving the house.
Femme ladies as you call them have not been bashed in every occupation, in fact they've been celebrated in many like teaching and the arts and medicine to name a few.

you seem to be buying into Rush Limpdicks "feminazi" scenarios Shocked


I am definately NOT a fan of Rush and his ilk. I have always been a feminist and liberal. I have involved in womens and LGBT activism since my 20's.

I was a young girl in the 70's and I did get involved with a feminist group of much older women. They were really into Andrea Dworkin and Mary Daly. They were always saying to me things like "feminine women are fembots! 'women that succeed in corporate america are slaves of the patriarchy' 'women in dresses are the enemy' and the worst for me ' women only wear makeup to attract men' Which was distressing to me as a gold star lesbian who has never been interested in attracting men. I wonder if they a fringe group. They were definately actively involved in the local Phoenix womens movement. A surprising number of them were lawyers and government/social workers. Many in education also. They lent me an insane amount of books which I did devour! Smile I did learn alot from them even though many of them were biased against who I was as a person initially. It took awhile.

I think that 70's feminism did accomplish a great many positive things like equal pay of equal work, women being respected for working outside the home, affirmative action, and alot of cultural acceptance for women owning their own bodies ect ect. and I am proud of that part of the legacy. But the anti-feminine aspect was there for sure. Women-positive absolutely yes but the feminine was regarded with great suspicion.

That is my personal experiance. I am still a feminist and I am still doing my part but more focused on my community. Do I think my personal experiance defines the entire 70's feminist movement? nope but it certainly has colored some of my impressions. Hopefully that helps understand where I am coming from...

Smile



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BGfangirl



Joined: 19 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/23/10 6:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
StevenHW wrote:
pilight wrote:
I talked to her a few weeks ago and she said it probably would be published in the near future.


Thanks for the info!

I would love to see an expose book on the WNBA, told by a former player, but similar in fashion to Jim Bouton's book Ball Four (1970), which was very controversial at the time (though tame by today's standards).


I'd love to read one by Cheryl Miller. I bet it'd be wild.
CRASH



Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 2704
Location: Cali


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PostPosted: 07/23/10 6:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
BGfangirl wrote:
StevenHW wrote:
pilight wrote:
I talked to her a few weeks ago and she said it probably would be published in the near future.


Thanks for the info!

I would love to see an expose book on the WNBA, told by a former player, but similar in fashion to Jim Bouton's book Ball Four (1970), which was very controversial at the time (though tame by today's standards).


I'd love to read one by Cheryl Miller. I bet it'd be wild.


Shocked

You might have to go to Penthouse for that one. Wink


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing


Scarab wrote:
Chantelle's reading this thread. She just told me on Twitter she just signed up for a Rebkell account and will comment here as soon as it's approved.


Well then allow me to be the first to welcome Chantelle to the "junkies"!



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Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 07/23/10 6:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Chantelle, if you're climbing on board, bring booze. You're going to need it. Oh, and some flame-retardant armor. You're definitely going to need that.



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jaye



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PostPosted: 07/23/10 6:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
nawww.... just bring that smile.... Wink Smile



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CRASH



Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 07/23/10 6:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
nawwww

She's gonna need a suit of armor and the alcohol is defiantly advised. Wink



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bridgehere



Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: 07/23/10 7:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Yep, Chantelle, if you get here, welcome aboard and please do not take anything personal. Agree about the armor. Alcohol, well if that is your deal, it would actually break down my armor. Smile
bridgehere



Joined: 07 Feb 2010
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PostPosted: 07/23/10 7:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
CRASH wrote:
nawwww

She's gonna need a suit of armor and the alcohol is defiantly advised. Wink


Don't know if defiantly was what you meant, but I kind of like it.
CRASH



Joined: 26 Apr 2005
Posts: 2704
Location: Cali


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PostPosted: 07/23/10 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
bridgehere wrote:
CRASH wrote:
nawwww

She's gonna need a suit of armor and the alcohol is defiantly advised. Wink


Don't know if defiantly was what you meant, but I kind of like it.


LMAO

nope... was going for definitely
sometimes spell check doesn't help.
hehehehe

but your right, it kinda still works.
Wink



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caune



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 17919
Location: Valley of the Bun


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PostPosted: 07/23/10 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
shrrew wrote:
caune wrote:
shrrew wrote:
Chantelle is on to something there. Really since the 70's when the feminist movement demonized everything feminine as the enemy, femme ladies regardless of their orientation have been bashed in nearly every occupation. I think especially in athletics where being feminine is not considers strong or competitive. Luckily in womens basketball the femmes are breaking the stereotypes! Cool

Thanks for speaking out Chantelle!


huh?
What movement were you watching? demonized everything feminine?
I don't remember it that way at all. I was young but my Mom was a very vocal participant in the movement while still matching her shoes to her handbag and making sure her flaming red hair and lipstick were just right before leaving the house.
Femme ladies as you call them have not been bashed in every occupation, in fact they've been celebrated in many like teaching and the arts and medicine to name a few.

you seem to be buying into Rush Limpdicks "feminazi" scenarios Shocked


I am definately NOT a fan of Rush and his ilk. I have always been a feminist and liberal. I have involved in womens and LGBT activism since my 20's.

I was a young girl in the 70's and I did get involved with a feminist group of much older women. They were really into Andrea Dworkin and Mary Daly. They were always saying to me things like "feminine women are fembots! 'women that succeed in corporate america are slaves of the patriarchy' 'women in dresses are the enemy' and the worst for me ' women only wear makeup to attract men' Which was distressing to me as a gold star lesbian who has never been interested in attracting men. I wonder if they a fringe group. They were definately actively involved in the local Phoenix womens movement. A surprising number of them were lawyers and government/social workers. Many in education also. They lent me an insane amount of books which I did devour! Smile I did learn alot from them even though many of them were biased against who I was as a person initially. It took awhile.

I think that 70's feminism did accomplish a great many positive things like equal pay of equal work, women being respected for working outside the home, affirmative action, and alot of cultural acceptance for women owning their own bodies ect ect. and I am proud of that part of the legacy. But the anti-feminine aspect was there for sure. Women-positive absolutely yes but the feminine was regarded with great suspicion.

That is my personal experiance. I am still a feminist and I am still doing my part but more focused on my community. Do I think my personal experiance defines the entire 70's feminist movement? nope but it certainly has colored some of my impressions. Hopefully that helps understand where I am coming from...

Smile


wrong group of women it seems...but they are the types of whom Rush speaks.. but they were hardly the whole movement...although apparently they were the most noticeable and easy to peg for further stereotyping



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stever



Joined: 16 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 07/23/10 8:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Scarab wrote:
Chantelle's reading this thread. She just told me on Twitter she just signed up for a Rebkell account and will comment here as soon as it's approved.


...done deal Wink



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Chantelle



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PostPosted: 07/24/10 12:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Hey Rebkell! I hesitated to join because its fun to watch you all discuss things from afar (haha). But I wanted to clear a few things up. For the record, Ill pass on both the alcohol and the armor for now, but reserve the right to bring them later 'Wink'

About my last blog post:
1. Im not complaining that pretty and/or feminine girls are terribly disadvantaged. My blog was a response to another blog posted on Women Talk Sports. That article showed a very one-sided view of this issue, and so I chose to show the other side. But, I do see and empathize with both sides.
2. Lots of girls tell me they struggle with playing sports because it makes people think theyre gay. And some have even quit because of that. As for me, I didnt care (people can think whatever they want about me as far as Im concerned). But its still not fair to other young ladies and so I wanted to start some discussion about it.
3. Yes, as someone above stated, it is societys perception that is the problem and not the gay or straight crusaders. Still, that doesnt mean we should make the problem worse, no matter what side of the fence were on.
4. Yes, in our society, gay people are persecuted more than straight people. I am not saying, nor do I think, any differently. But that doesnt make what I wrote about a non-issue. Personally, I wish who someone was sleeping with didnt matter at all. Unfortunately, it does to way too many people.

About my book:
The WNBA did not tell me I couldnt publish it. I do wonder if they are a little nervous about it but thats only me wondering and not based on real facts. The players arent nervous, that I know of. Most of their names are changed and so are certain locations and dates to prevent easy identification. This is my story so I will not tell theirs. The delay in trying to find a publisher was because this is an explosive book, and I had to make sure I was ready to deal with the consequences, whatever they may be. As of now, the manuscript is in the publishers hands and the process has begun. Now its a waiting game. Im very excited to achieve my dream of becoming a published author and also show people the other side of sports, and life in general. Im sure what I say will surprise a lot of people, as it so often does, because its no less honest than my usual writing. In fact, its more so. I will keep you all posted.

Thank you so much for your interest in my thoughts, opinions, and writing. I enjoy the discussion! 'Very Happy' Til next time, God bless!

~ Chantelle
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 07/24/10 12:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Chantelle wrote:
Hey Rebkell! I hesitated to join because its fun to watch you all discuss things from afar (haha). But I wanted to clear a few things up. For the record, Ill pass on both the alcohol and the armor for now, but reserve the right to bring them later 'Wink'


Welcome aboard!



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CRASH



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PostPosted: 07/24/10 12:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
Thx Chantelle

Welcome to the Junkies!
Could you (or anyone) post a link to the other article?

I know what your saying about girls getting "reps" of being gay for playing,
my niece is going thru that very thing. Luckily she has me (hehe) and really doesn't care! LOL When one girl asked her if she was gay, because she gave up a trip to the mall to practice (softball), she asked them, "Why? Do you wanna be?" I just love that kid!!!!!!
But having coached for many seasons I see a lot of kids give up sports because of this. Peer presser is a bitch!



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 07/24/10 1:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
CRASH wrote:
Could you (or anyone) post a link to the other article?


I think it's this one:

http://www.womentalksports.com/items/read/55/610683



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CRASH



Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 07/24/10 1:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
pilight wrote:
CRASH wrote:
Could you (or anyone) post a link to the other article?


I think it's this one:

http://www.womentalksports.com/items/read/55/610683


Thx pilight.

like the new avi! Wink



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pilight



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PostPosted: 07/24/10 1:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
CRASH wrote:
like the new avi! Wink


It's only the second one I've used that has me in the picture.



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CRASH



Joined: 26 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 07/24/10 1:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote
pilight wrote:
CRASH wrote:
like the new avi! Wink


It's only the second one I've used that has me in the picture.


its cool!

I just read that article....
what douche bag!
Good God, so what if women are beautiful?
So what if they are, ummm.. unfortunate looking?
If people (men or women) are coming out to see you play,
what does it really matter what the motivation is?
Im gonna miss Jenny playing, period!
I miss seeing Chantelle playing too!
Both are beautiful, both bring passion.
The beauty is just a plus in my opinion.
Hell I've used players looks to get guys to go to games with me,
almost always they leave as fans. So I really don't see what the issue is. Rolling Eyes



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Last edited by CRASH on 07/24/10 1:42 am; edited 1 time in total
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