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Russian Teams Financial Troubles?
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shrrew



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PostPosted: 11/21/08 10:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The latest news off the Silver Stars Nation board where they are translating key pieces of the russian boards is that CSKA is only funded until December 1st.

CSKA already looking for new backers but so far no luck. They are not answering their office phones either.

Players have already been encouraged to find new clubs to play for. This might work for the lower paid members of the team but the top choice players are going to have a hard time finding a new team.


CSKA going down.... down.... down..... Crying or Very sad



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CB



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PostPosted: 11/21/08 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eurobasket wrote:
When one of the biggest basketball men clubs in Germany went of business last season it did not make the headlines. Since March this year and the time I am writing this, 20 basketball clubs have disappeared off the radar screen, so if CSKA was to go the same way, it will be quickly forgotten.

It will not be viewed as a problem of women's basketball or sport. It is just the way things are at the moment.

Due to the influx of money in Russia, the only league to really raise it salary was Italy.

In Belgium it had the opposite effect as the salaries actually dropped.

In France the budgets of most of the top clubs have remained static or dropped in recent years, and as the clubs have a strict budget, they cannot meet the salaries currently played in Russia and Italy.

But what is more interesting is the money offered in Latvia, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland. They can almost meet what is paid in Russia and beat Italy, Spain and France.

All the same I cannot see what is happening in Europe having any effect on the WNBA and its Business model

With or without overseas players, it will still be an exciting league and even if the bubble bursts in Russia, the stars from the WNBA will still find clubs that will play them well during the off season.


Thanks for this.

I heard most teams overseas are on very solid financial ground.



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MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 11/21/08 11:05 am    ::: Bubbles burst Reply Reply with quote

This whole world economic mess is the result of many bubbles bursting at once, and sports are going to be part of that. WNBA salaries and ticket prices are reasonable but at some point men's pro sports are going to have to bite the bullet and lower slaries and ticket prices because we are in the midst of a huge middle class lifestyle correction here, and we are not going to get back permanently to middle-class equaling living in a suburban Mcmansion with two SUVs and lots of extra money to throw at terribly expensive sporting events. It may not happen right away but, over time, pro sports are going to have to get affordable again or die off. And that's world-wide.

Women will feel it first, but men will feel it more severely over time.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/21/08 4:10 pm    ::: Re: Bubbles burst Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
This whole world economic mess is the result of many bubbles bursting at once, and sports are going to be part of that.


That's exactly it. We are not talking about business models or the fortunes of particular teams. This is a worldwide economic problem. All businesses are being affected by the credit crunch and the recession. IN ADDITION, the emerging market countries are dealing with a currency problem because everyone is fleeing to the dollar and yen. Consequently, they have to convert to dollars or yen at increasingly higher rates if they want to do business. That's if they can convert at all. This is affecting all businesses in these countries and will obviously filter down to sports teams.



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HotForHammon



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PostPosted: 11/21/08 4:20 pm    ::: Re: Bubbles burst Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
MuneravenMN wrote:
This whole world economic mess is the result of many bubbles bursting at once, and sports are going to be part of that.


That's exactly it. We are not talking about business models or the fortunes of particular teams. This is a worldwide economic problem. All businesses are being affected by the credit crunch and the recession. IN ADDITION, the emerging market countries are dealing with a currency problem because everyone is fleeing to the dollar and yen. Consequently, they have to convert to dollars or yen at increasingly higher rates if they want to do business. That's if they can convert at all. This is affecting all businesses in these countries and will obviously filter down to sports teams.


That's pretty much what this says...
Crisis reaches Russia

Quote:
Our contact in Russia informed us about some major development in Russia. According to him the global financial crisis has a direct effect on the Russian basketball now. If you really think it about it - it just makes sense and critics of the high paying Russian investors are finally proven right.

He also explains us why Russia is having problems:

Much depends on the Dollar value. If the oil price keeps dropping - the Ruble (Russian currency) will fall. It is expected that the Ruble will fall. From here - everything will get worse. Many Russian basketball contracts are in dollars, and the sponsoring of the clubs and salaries is in rubles. - meaning the clubs will have to pay more money to their players.



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eurobasket



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PostPosted: 11/21/08 10:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Based on the previous post by HotForHammon, I will try and explain why CSKA is really in trouble.

Andrei Ischuk who has run the club from the start has pulled out of the Russian Market. With him gone they do not have anybody to run the payroll.

He was responsible for the budgets and with his departure, which was actually in September the club was on borrowed time.

The club is actually under the control of a group of people from Volgaburmash who are not ready to bank roll the club to the same extend.

No payment for October and it looks like nothing for November. The European season come to a break on Dec 20. I guess if a solution is not found then CSKA will end its activities.

It is a sign of the times when Spartak Moscow after playing in France, two weeks did not return to Russia, but stayed in France and then flew out to Italy (I am assuming they flew- because they could have gone by train or bus).

In the good old days they would have certainly have flown back to Moscow between games.


Dynamo Moscow are the second team in the Russia League that are in trouble.
STLnTDOT



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PostPosted: 11/21/08 10:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eurobasket wrote:


No payment for October and it looks like nothing for November. The European season come to a break on Dec 20. I guess if a solution is not found then CSKA will end its activities.



From a very good source, they could be done even before that


HotForHammon



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 11:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looks like CSKA is done. Crying or Very sad

Quote:
Women' s CSKA of removed of from of the of country' s of championship of because of of funding of problems, transmits of radio of " Mayak" , referring to of the Of president of of the Of russian Of federation Of sergei Of chernov of basketball. In the club itself information about the removal from the championship they did not confirm, but also they did not refute, after saying that the official solution thus far no one assumed. In of the of club of about of withdrawing of from of the of championship is of not of confirmed of nor of refuted, saying of that a of formal of decision of yet, no of one of has. In the federation of the basketball of Russia the information so remained unconfirmed; however, the representatives OF [RFB] were intended to soon meet with the management the TsSKA (Central Sports Club of the Army) and to discuss the future of command in the championship of Russia. In of the Of basketball Of federation of Of russia in of the of same of information of remains of unconfirmed, but of the RFB of intend of shortly to of meet of with of the of leaders CSKA and discuss of the of future of of the of team of championship in Of russia. Source: http://news.sportbox.ru/ Source: http://news.sportbox.ru/



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bullsky



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 11:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So where will the players go?



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HotForHammon



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
So where will the players go?


They have to find new teams.
We had feeling it was comming yesterday. Some of our Russian members reported Becky and her parents went out after the game yesterday and she told them she would likely be leaving the club soon then gave over her signed shoes and posed for pics and signed autographs for the members of her Russian fan site that traveled to the game. It sounded like a goodbye.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


baker10



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


If she didn't get her money upfront than it sounds like the russians used the contract to get her to play in the olympics for a very small amount.


HotForHammon



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 2:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CSKA is done with Euroleage too. From a very reliable source. There will be no game Wednesday and the Americans are all heading home this week.



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amaha05



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 3:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

baker10 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


If she didn't get her money upfront than it sounds like the russians used the contract to get her to play in the olympics for a very small amount.


I was thinking the same thing when this thread began.



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internationalbball



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

baker10 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


If she didn't get her money upfront than it sounds like the russians used the contract to get her to play in the olympics for a very small amount.


Richyvv no contract in russia is gauranteed at all you you would be going
through russian courts for years and would never see a dime.


shrrew



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 4:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hearing Dynamo Moscow is next.................. waaahhhh! Crying or Very sad



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 11/24/08 6:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

internationalbball wrote:
baker10 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Hope Becky got most of that money in her Russia/CSKA deal guaranteed by the Russian Federation rather than the club. Otherwise she might be missing out on some of that cash that was such a large part of the discussion for the last year or so.


If she didn't get her money upfront than it sounds like the russians used the contract to get her to play in the olympics for a very small amount.


Richyvv no contract in russia is gauranteed at all you you would be going
through russian courts for years and would never see a dime.


Yeah, I appreciate that no standard club contract is remotely guaranteed - if the club goes under you're screwed. But Hammon signed a combined deal with CSKA Moscow and the Russian Basketball Federation, so if she's got a really smart agent they could've got it guaranteed by the national association (who were unlikely to ever go under). Chances are though, she'll get fully paid for last season and the whole Olympic exercise, and then just miss out on this season's salary.

Anyway, I'm sure there are still contracts out there for players the caliber of those on CSKA's roster. Hell, there's a couple of them who could just fall back on catwalk work to make a few bucks Smile.


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PostPosted: 11/24/08 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have always been told when dealing with countries in Eastern Europen for Basketball it is important to get your money up front as they promise a lot and have a history of delivering.

It will be very difficult to win anything in the courts as the process will just go on for years and years.

I guess the advisers of Becky are aware of all of this and would have madeot sure she got what due to her for her Olympic appearance.

As she was not sure about EuroBasket according to the press I am not sure she will be able to get anything more out of the Russian Federation unless she plays.

With her Russian Passport she can join any other team in the Russian SuperLeague without effecting the quota off overseas Players and still be well paid.
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PostPosted: 11/26/08 7:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As mentioned previously Dynamo Moscow is also in trouble.

The other teams also not paying players at the moment from the mens league are:

CSK VVS, Khimki and Triumph Lyubertsy.


So it not only women's basketball
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PostPosted: 11/26/08 11:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

somebody said that was good for WNBA, because players will earn more money in the States now...but this isn't true.

Everywhere in Europe (not only in Russia) you can earn much more money than in the States...Spain, Italy...France, Israel...they pay a lot...the problem of Russian League is that they pay much, much, much more than the others. But In Spain there are players earning 200.000 Euros per Season (10 months) Wink


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PostPosted: 11/26/08 11:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Actionled wrote:
somebody said that was good for WNBA, because players will earn more money in the States now...but this isn't true.




It would be good because the players would be here at the start of training camp making for a better season of basketball in the W.
Of course they'll all be fighting each other for those broadcasting jobs in the W's off season Wink but that's not necessarily bad if it get's some of the existing ones off our screens Laughing



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Actionled



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PostPosted: 11/26/08 12:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Spain will be the place for most of them in January. In fact some of them already know Spanish League.


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PostPosted: 11/26/08 12:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Actionled wrote:
somebody said that was good for WNBA, because players will earn more money in the States now...but this isn't true.

Everywhere in Europe (not only in Russia) you can earn much more money than in the States...Spain, Italy...France, Israel...they pay a lot...the problem of Russian League is that they pay much, much, much more than the others. But In Spain there are players earning 200.000 Euros per Season (10 months) Wink


Yeah, but how much more is that really than the WNBA? 4 months in WNBA = $100,000 (though, granted, not everyone makes the max, so for rookies, etc. the difference is greater). 10 months (just over double the amount of playing time) in Euroleague=$200,000 Euros. Right now a Euro is about $1.28. So if you normalize it per month, you're looking at approximately $25K/month in the W, and $25,600/month in EL. Not a giant difference, if you ask me. Certainly not the rumored "much more" money everyone is so fond of throwing around.

Though on the other hand, it likely is much more money than they'd make just hanging around working a different job in the States or training in the off-season.



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PostPosted: 11/26/08 1:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Actionled wrote:
I think Spain will be the place for most of them in January. In fact some of them already know Spanish League.


and the Spanish food and weather beat Russia all to hell!
Laughing



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/26/08 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The bad economy that hit the Russian League will hit everyone else too. With corporations doing badly, you can expect teams in the other foreign leagues to lose sponsorships too. That means some teams will fold and the remaining teams will pay less. For the WNBA, you will see lower attendance and possibly contraction for the weaker franchises. You may also see other less drastic budget cutting moves like teams carrying fewer players even if they have the cap space. It's hard to imagine how this won't hurt all leagues in some way.

Obviously, this filters down to the players. I get no joy from seeing the players lose opportunities -- even if it benefits the WNBA. These are top-notch athletes, and I'm glad they can go overseas to supplement their income. If they didn't have that opportunity, I suspect some of them would stop playing. Not many, but a few who are good academically and could go into a profession might end up making more money outside of basketball. Then, what's to say leaving isn't the better choice?



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