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shrrew



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 11:21 am    ::: Russian Teams Financial Troubles? Reply Reply with quote

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beckyhammon.ucoz.ru%2F&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=ru&tl=en


This seems to be mostly CSKA but what about the other teams?





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HotForHammon



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 11:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Korstin: many of the women's Superleague clubs will not survive until the end of the season

The captain of women's basketball club CSKA Ilona Korstin said that going through a difficult transition Maria Stepanova of the army team at UMMC.

It is very difficult without Mashi, because it is a lot of years to play for our club. Moreover, I have it, too, have started to play basketball. We were in St. Petersburg with the same coach - Kiry Trzheskal. Naturally, when you have long worked with people side by side, and then he goes, it is not very pleasant. I am talking about personal feelings. But the club took this decision because it happened and very sad. Including for our fans, as many came to see and it, too. But this has nothing to be helped , - sends word basketbolistki, Just Korstin said that world economic negative impact on the Russian basketball.

Problems in the global economy will impact on the game in the worst way. . Of course, sports and show business depends on the country's economy and the world. If the industry there are any problems, they affect and basketball. Now there is a crisis in basketball. Many sponsors refused to finance teams, where some players are not being paid within one to two months. . I am referring to the Russian clubs, of course. . Already aware that many of the women's Superleague clubs will not survive until the end of the season because they did not have enough financial resources. But we did hope that it'll all , - said basketbolistka.

At the end of his speech Korstin told whom she would like to see as a mentor team of Russia, instead fled the office of Igor belly
Now it is very difficult to answer the question of who should replace the sternum. . Among women, this post could claim only Natalia Heykova, which has been an assistant belly. . On the other hand, we have very few good mentors Russians, a lot of foreigners. And take a foreigner in the team ... Yes, it is fashionable, but now the matter is discussed. It is still not fully resolved. Messina? He did not want - one hundred percent , - Korstin added.

http://translate.google.com/translat...hl=en&ie=UTF-8



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baker10



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

with the way the global economy has been going, you could see this coming..


shrrew



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am just hoping it is not a domino effect....



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StevenHW



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 12:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Part of the translated post:
Quote:
...At the end of his speech [Ilona] Korstin told whom she would like to see as a mentor team of Russia, instead fled the office of Igor belly Now it is very difficult to answer the question of who should replace the sternum. . Among women, this post could claim only Natalia Heykova, which has been an assistant belly...



"Replace the sternum"? "Assistant belly"? Sorry, but I couldn't resist. Very Happy



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bullsky



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 1:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is good for the WNBA. See, the WNBA might not make the most money, but our money is far more secure than the European leagues.



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CB



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the WNBA is like Stern and the NBA, they like seeing basketball spread worldwide.

I doubt the WNBA thinks this is a good thing.



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bullsky



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CB wrote:
If the WNBA is like Stern and the NBA, they like seeing basketball spread worldwide.

I doubt the WNBA thinks this is a good thing.


Of course they want basketball to be spread worldwide, but this could mean that some of Europe's best may now think about coming to the States to make money. The last couple of years, leagues in Europe have paid their players more and more, while the international number of WNBA players has decreased.

Point blank, the more internationals in the WNBA the better. We're not the world's best league. We may be the world's most competitive league, but we're not the best. With the financial issues in Russia, this may free up some of those players to now consider spending the summer in the States, which will be better for the WNBA.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As with most bubbles, the European women's basketball bubble will inevitably burst -- no system can stand in this culture without coming close to breaking even, and all reports indicate that the Russian women's basketball league is not within range of turning a profit.

Sooner or later, some kind of correction will take place, and most likely, it will result in a drastic lowering of European salaries. When that happens, the WNBA will suddenly become much more attractive for European players. (If you're making $300,000, an extra $50,000 doesn't mean that much; if you're making $100,000, it increases your income by 50%.)

A collapse in Europe would also give the WNBA an opportunity to restructure some women's leagues under the WNBA banner, if that would make sense. For example, the WNBA could conceivably run the Euroleague if its sponsors bail -- the opportunity might make sense because it would position the NBA to move in the same direction at some point.

Most likely, though, the major impact of a drastic correction in European women's basketball will result in more European women exploring the WNBA option. How many would actually come, and how many would actually elevate the caliber of play in the league in a noticeable manner are different questions entirely.



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CB



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
CB wrote:
If the WNBA is like Stern and the NBA, they like seeing basketball spread worldwide.

I doubt the WNBA thinks this is a good thing.


Of course they want basketball to be spread worldwide, but this could mean that some of Europe's best may now think about coming to the States to make money. The last couple of years, leagues in Europe have paid their players more and more, while the international number of WNBA players has decreased.

Point blank, the more internationals in the WNBA the better. We're not the world's best league. We may be the world's most competitive league, but we're not the best. With the financial issues in Russia, this may free up some of those players to now consider spending the summer in the States, which will be better for the WNBA.


First, to include some response to ClayK's post as well as yours, this is the Russia League (Superleague) Korstin was talking about, not necessarily EuroLeague though that includes some Russian League teams it sounds like.

If it's just Russian teams, I don't think it will make a difference in any of them coming to the WNBA. Very few came here over the last 12 years though in the last few years it seems many WNBA players have started going overseas.

I'm surprised at your statement that the amount of WNBA players going overseas is decreasing, it seems to have swelled in recent years but I'm only aware of these leagues over the last few years anyway. Where did you get that info?



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Last edited by CB on 11/19/08 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
bullsky



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CB wrote:
I'm surprised at your statement that the amount of WNBA players going overseas is decreasing, it seems to have swelled in recent years but I'm only aware of these leagues over the last few years anyway. Where did you get that info?


Not the amount of WNBA players going overseas. I meant the amount of foreign players coming to the WNBA has shrunk. The WNBA is not really an "international" league.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 5:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd be happy to see more of the world's best international players in the WNBA, but I wish it was under better circumstances.
I would much rather that they came due to the league's excellent pay & conditions than the fact that their alternative opportunities were drying up Sad
Still, this situation has been discussed here several times before and we all knew that it was basically inevitable. If it affects Russia then it is also going to have a flow-on effect to every other league that plays at the same time.



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CB



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 5:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bullsky wrote:
CB wrote:
I'm surprised at your statement that the amount of WNBA players going overseas is decreasing, it seems to have swelled in recent years but I'm only aware of these leagues over the last few years anyway. Where did you get that info?


Not the amount of WNBA players going overseas. I meant the amount of foreign players coming to the WNBA has shrunk. The WNBA is not really an "international" league.


Oh, I see what you meant.

I still don't think it will entice more Russians especially nor many more internationals to the WNBA. There are plenty of countries with basketball leagues over there. Just my opinion. Smile

I will be extremely happy if Ann and Edwige come back to SASS as both hadn't played in the WNBA for a year or two as it is.



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bballfan2005



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The WNBA plays in the summer, when many European national teams are busy trying to qualify for FIBA-sanctioned events. It's not a league that's accommodating of European players. Asian players, in general, aren't strong WNBA prospects.

While some Russian teams are having financial issues, I don't see this as the "end of EuroLeague" or European basketball. Too big a jump is being made for those who come to that conclusion.


STLnTDOT



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballfan2005 wrote:
The WNBA plays in the summer, when many European national teams are busy trying to qualify for FIBA-sanctioned events. It's not a league that's accommodating of European players. Asian players, in general, aren't strong WNBA prospects.

While some Russian teams are having financial issues, I don't see this as the "end of EuroLeague" or European basketball. Too big a jump is being made for those who come to that conclusion.


I agree, I dont think it is the end of EuroLeague play, but maybe just the downfall of the Russian SuperLeague Womens Division as it is known now.


bullsky



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 6:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

STLnTDOT wrote:
bballfan2005 wrote:
The WNBA plays in the summer, when many European national teams are busy trying to qualify for FIBA-sanctioned events. It's not a league that's accommodating of European players. Asian players, in general, aren't strong WNBA prospects.

While some Russian teams are having financial issues, I don't see this as the "end of EuroLeague" or European basketball. Too big a jump is being made for those who come to that conclusion.


I agree, I dont think it is the end of EuroLeague play, but maybe just the downfall of the Russian SuperLeague Womens Division as it is known now.


Yes, but the Russian league is where the best players are at. Players will have to take pay cuts (sometimes significant) to play in lesser countries such as France, Italy or the Czech Republic. There will still be basketball in Europe, but it won't be near as economically sound.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 10:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Before we start dancing on the grave of European basketball, let's make sure we're not standing in a hole ourselves. Possibly 3 million jobs lost if the auto industry goes down and takes with it suppliers and maybe media companies (automakers are major advertisers). A commercial mortgage crisis is on the horizon. Underfunded pension funds in both the private and public sectors are at risk. State and municipal governments are looking at huge budget shortfalls. Everyone is standing on line waiting for a bailout from the Federal government, which is itself deep in debt. Our economy is likely to get a lot worse, and believe me, the WNBA will feel its share of pain.



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PostPosted: 11/19/08 10:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Basketball in western europe might remain economically sound enough to keep most elite players who grew up in europe in europe, since their salaries weren't at russian levels in the first place-- but those salaries were high enough to draw, year after year, US players who weren't good enough for the top-playing russian teams (Ohlde in Belgium, to take one of many examples).

So if the russian bubble pops but the western european teams stay where they are, it may be that the only change is that diana, sue, cappie & co spend the winter in france or spain rather than siberia. Remember, most elite US players were playing overseas most years even before the Russian tycoons began to throw their big rubles around.

I'd like to see the WNBA pay its players so well that the best players usually choose not to go overseas. But that's not coming any time soon. with the economy where it is, I'll be delighted just to see all the teams solvent at this time next year, and to see somebody purchase the comets. Remember, it only takes one well-capitalized owner (or group of owners, as in Seattle) to save a team.

As for Euros into the WNBA, I don't think it's going to matter very much whether the second-round draft picks are foreign or not. From a PR perspective, it's probably better to have the reserves and role players come from US college teams, rather than overseas, especially since Euros don't make reliable multi-year commitments, hence they are hard to market around. But if we can get the next LJ over here, obviously we should. Is there a "next LJ"?


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PostPosted: 11/20/08 12:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Becaue one or two clubs in the Russian Super League do not have as much money as before will not bring down EuroLeague or basketball in Europe. EuroLeague is just a competition that clubs actually pay to play in. It is not like FIBA Europe pay clubs to travel all round Europe to play one another.

If Clubs cannot arrange their own sponsorship and finances then they do not take part. Last season CSKA , Spartak and UMMC had Budgets of more than 10 million Euro. When CSKA missed out on qualifying for the EuroLeague final four some people where not happy. As a result the pressure is now on, they must qualify for the final four.

If you remember CSKA moved from Volgaburmash to Moscow last season. One of the reasons for the move was to keep certain players happy and have fewer excuses for not winning everything.

They are only four clubs in Russia that have really big budget, the other clubs may have more money than clubs in some of the better leagues in Europe.

When we hear a player from the top 4 clubs has not been paid for a couple of months then we can finally said the bubble has burst.

If Maria Steponova can leave CSKA and then walk into UMMC, the same club that paid off Harrower and will have Parker joining in January, it is difficult to believe that anything has changed.

It will always be difficult to get players who are playing for national teams to play in the WNBA as they have changed the European Calendar. This season the EuroBasket for Women is in June, right at the start of the WNBA season.

This means that international players will miss WNBA preseason. Why do I say this is because all the leagues stop December 20th and do not start again till the end of January because of the EuroBasket Additional round games.
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PostPosted: 11/20/08 3:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Before we start dancing on the grave of European basketball, let's make sure we're not standing in a hole ourselves. Possibly 3 million jobs lost if the auto industry goes down and takes with it suppliers and maybe media companies (automakers are major advertisers). A commercial mortgage crisis is on the horizon. Underfunded pension funds in both the private and public sectors are at risk. State and municipal governments are looking at huge budget shortfalls. Everyone is standing on line waiting for a bailout from the Federal government, which is itself deep in debt. Our economy is likely to get a lot worse, and believe me, the WNBA will feel its share of pain.


Yeah, and no one is going to bail out the WNBA. Crying or Very sad

Russian league owners were spending money like drunken sailors, so it was only a matter of time.


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PostPosted: 11/20/08 8:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

eurobasket wrote:
If Clubs cannot arrange their own sponsorship and finances then they do not take part. Last season CSKA , Spartak and UMMC had Budgets of more than 10 million Euro. When CSKA missed out on qualifying for the EuroLeague final four some people where not happy. As a result the pressure is now on, they must qualify for the final four.

When we hear a player from the top 4 clubs has not been paid for a couple of months then we can finally said the bubble has burst.

If Maria Steponova can leave CSKA and then walk into UMMC, the same club that paid off Harrower and will have Parker joining in January, it is difficult to believe that anything has changed.


The way CSKA has been playing they will have a very hard time qualifying. Releasing Stepanova and not replacing her is very telling (it now sounds like the left her go to free up her 700k salery) and from what we have been told is that unless they find a sponsor they won't make payroll past November and the Americans, Wauters and Lawson-Wade will be released. According to a blog on Becky's Russian fan site it sounds like the players agreed to play through December. Team officials are also encouraging the players to take offers if they get them from other teams. They have a meeting Friday to try and figure out what to do.

Either way, a women's basketball team folding in not good for the game and just adds more fuel for the haters of womens sports be they here in the US or in Europe. One of the reports was that the people that bought the previous sponsors business have sports interests other then womens sports. Sad



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PostPosted: 11/20/08 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm not in Europe or as familiar with the economic system there, but in general, salaries are driven by what the top companies pay -- and other companies tend to follow along.

If that holds true in women's basketball, then the Russian salaries forced the western European clubs to raise their salaries (maybe a lot, maybe a little) in return. Athletes are notorious for using other players' incomes to demand more for themselves, and I can't believe that had no impact in Europe. It might have been small, though, and thus not really an issue.

But if Italian salaries, say, for top players, went up $50,000 to $100,000 while Russian salaries went up $200,000, then I do think the WNBA will be more attractive to a few players.

Of course, the national teams will always have an effect, and second-round picks don't matter (go local, certainly, and get a few stories by bringing nearby players to camp), so maybe the overall impact won't be much. But even two or three big-time Euros could change the fortunes of a couple of teams -- look at Ann Wauters and San Antonio.



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PostPosted: 11/20/08 2:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Regardless of what happens in Europe, I still don't think the WNBA will be a main source of income for the top players. Or even the middle of the pack who can still get paid more in Europe.
They will probably just take a paycut that will still make their salaries significantly higher than their WNBA salaries.



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PostPosted: 11/20/08 2:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
I'm not in Europe or as familiar with the economic system there, but in general, salaries are driven by what the top companies pay -- and other companies tend to follow along.

If that holds true in women's basketball, then the Russian salaries forced the western European clubs to raise their salaries (maybe a lot, maybe a little) in return. Athletes are notorious for using other players' incomes to demand more for themselves, and I can't believe that had no impact in Europe. It might have been small, though, and thus not really an issue.

But if Italian salaries, say, for top players, went up $50,000 to $100,000 while Russian salaries went up $200,000, then I do think the WNBA will be more attractive to a few players.

Of course, the national teams will always have an effect, and second-round picks don't matter (go local, certainly, and get a few stories by bringing nearby players to camp), so maybe the overall impact won't be much. But even two or three big-time Euros could change the fortunes of a couple of teams -- look at Ann Wauters and San Antonio.


SASS was already a pretty good team but I'm not sure we would have made the Finals had Ann not come in regardless of if we got Griffith or someone else instead and still had Camille. Edwige really did play an important part in our success as well coming in with that hot 3 point shot all summer.



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PostPosted: 11/20/08 10:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When one of the biggest basketball men clubs in Germany went of business last season it did not make the headlines. Since March this year and the time I am writing this, 20 basketball clubs have disappeared off the radar screen, so if CSKA was to go the same way, it will be quickly forgotten.

It will not be viewed as a problem of women's basketball or sport. It is just the way things are at the moment.

Due to the influx of money in Russia, the only league to really raise it salary was Italy.

In Belgium it had the opposite effect as the salaries actually dropped.

In France the budgets of most of the top clubs have remained static or dropped in recent years, and as the clubs have a strict budget, they cannot meet the salaries currently played in Russia and Italy.

But what is more interesting is the money offered in Latvia, Czech Republic, Slovakia and Poland. They can almost meet what is paid in Russia and beat Italy, Spain and France.

All the same I cannot see what is happening in Europe having any effect on the WNBA and its Business model

With or without overseas players, it will still be an exciting league and even if the bubble bursts in Russia, the stars from the WNBA will still find clubs that will play them well during the off season.
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