| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9627
Back to top |
 Posted: 03/07/24 12:43 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| pilight wrote: |
Industries rise and fall and get replaced by other industries. That's the way it works. It's what Joseph Schumpeter called creative destruction, the "process of industrial mutation that incessantly revolutionizes the economic structure from within, incessantly destroying the old one, incessantly creating a new one."* The US has as much industry as it ever has, even if less of it steel than it used to be.
* The quote is from Capitalism, Socialism, and Democracy, published in 1942. So you're right that we knew it was coming long before it came. |
The USA population increased 72% from 1960 to 2010 (179,323,175 -> 308,745,538) and yet we had fewer manufacturing jobs in 2010 than in 1960. How are you defining industry? And we lost jobs that were exported to other countries for cheaper labor, not just because of "industrial mutation".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_in_the_United_States
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9627
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/07/24 1:22 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Howee wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| But Biden led the Democrats into the Iraq war lies and became Genocide Joe (to non NPCs) while rushing tens of billions of dollars of bombs and other weapons |
Biden voted for the war's approval, but...."led the Democrats"?? That entire shit-show was led by the GOP. |
The Democrats had to get on board for it to get passed by Congress. Biden took the lead in getting them to vote for the invasion.
Joe Biden Didn’t Just Vote for the Iraq Invasion—He Helped Lead the March to War
| Hubie wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| I've always seen the MAGA mantra as absurd: when the ratio of (real) American shittiness to Modern American Standard of Living is calculated, the United States of America have never been greater than they are now. |
What you want to calculate is the ability of blue collar workers to get jobs that pay a decent salary that will allow them to live fairly comfortably as was the case for them in previous decades.....<too much truth for Howee> .... so if we are greater than ever, why do stores have to lock up general consumer staples that they didn't have to do for the history of self-service stores in my lifetime? |
You are citing talking points that aren't FALSE, but again....they're only a fraction of the entire picture. Shoplifting and Labor Market inequities have been in existence far longer than we have. Name a decade when things were so MUCH GREATER? |
We're both old men. Name the decades of your life where stores were putting normal household items behind locked glass doors. Name the decades when there were so many tent encampments on the sidewalks and in the parks of cities that the Supreme Court had to rule on what cities can do to people in homeless encampments. Specifically, they have to rule if a lower court was correct in ruling that cities cannot punish the homeless when there is no room in shelters
| Quote: |
| If one considers the overall advances in technology, average standard of living, our standing in the global geopolitical community, etc., etc., ….I can't think of a time I'd wanna go back to. |
Technological advances don't make up for the people that have been wrecked by job export and an illegal workforce. We sent blue collar jobs to other countries and then forced the newly unemployed workers to compete with the never ending millions of legal immigrants AND millions of illegal workers from Latin America (and increasingly elsewhere) for the remaining service jobs. And after our cities filled up, home ownership went from houses to apartments (aka condos) for many people as there is finite metro land and infinite immigration.
I suspect the blue collar people of America don't give a rat's ass about "our standing in the global geopolitical community". That sounds like something some lawyer or bureaucrat would promote on the PBS News Hour to the rich viewers. The bottom half want a house and a good job. Just like you enjoyed. But ironically, the geopolitical standing of the USA is on the decline. The Global South is sick of getting pushed around by the USA and wants into BRICS+. They notice that China goes into countries and builds railroads while the USA goes in and builds military bases. And what could be lower in terms of geopolitical standing than countries seeing the USA cutting off UN relief organization funding (and getting US European vassal states to do the same) to a starving uprooted people, while simultaneously rushing bombs to Israel so they can drop them on those same starving people (and doctors, and relief workers).
|
|
tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9627
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/07/24 1:52 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| toad455 wrote: |
| Trump won Iowa last night by getting just 51% of the votes. I wouldn't consider that a landside victory at all. Means 49% of Republicans in Iowa didn't vote for him. That should be alarming for the GOP, but they're celebrating his victory saying he dominated the votes. Another alarming note nobody is pointing out is the low turnout. Where were all the MAGA crazies in Iowa? |
Despite being ahead in most of the Republican polls since he announced in June 2015, five or so months into the campaign Trump was still viewed unfavorably by over 50% of Republicans. He got 24% in the Iowa primary which was about what he polled throughout 2015. But being a large field mid 20's was good enough to be #1 in the campaign. That is likely the extent of his strong support among Republicans (or among people who voted for him) - 25%. But I think once the election rolled around the Republicans who had an unfavorable opinion of Trump still voted for him instead of Clinton. But in addition to not running against the also-with-large-unfavorables Clinton anymore, Trump's protesting of the 2020 election has cost him some amount of voters. So, to me the 2024 issue has been how can Trump lose support and go on to beat the same guy he lost to last time, absent a severe economic downturn to take Biden's popularity down. Biden is losing some support now because of his unconditional support of Israel, but those people aren't going to vote for Trump as he strongly repels Democrats. And Trump is also gaga for Israel. Whereas it does seem that people who are not voting for Trump because of his election protests, will largely vote for Biden.
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/07/24 2:56 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| tfan wrote: |
| How are you defining industry? And we lost jobs that were exported to other countries for cheaper labor, not just because of "industrial mutation". |
1. "An industry is a group of manufacturers or businesses that produce a particular kind of goods or services."
Your graphic appears to me as an interpretation/comparison of "manufacturing" (i.e., cars, appliances, etc. - hard goods). It does NOT appear to represent the growth of service industries (i.e, The Health Care Industry, Educators, Food service, etc.)
And if one is JUST considering Manufacturing of "hard goods" (autos, clothing, etc.) then no surprie that's on the decline in terms of actual laborers; I can speak to that via my relatives in the auto industry (GM). Robotics have eliminated the need for many workers on any given assembly line. The steel industry. The mining industry. Fewer workers can actually produce more goods, in many cases.
2. And YES....foreign job markets are a factor. ANOTHER side-effect of American Capitalist Greed. Example? My brother in law explained once that on his job at GM, a single 8-hr shift might require him to actually 'labor' for 15-30 min per shift. At $32/hr (and don't TRY to cut that!) I can see why GM (or any parallel manufacturere) might wanna find an overseas market where they can squeeze more productivity out of workers for $9/hr. Our capitalist system has produced middle class (many of them undeducated) factory workers that want what they DESERVE, and unions to protect that, while the Capitalist Corporate Elite want THEIR profits to rise to the max. Something's gotta give. To me, both of these points are part of pilight's "Industrial Mutation"....Change is inevitable.
| tfan wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| But Biden led the Democrats into the Iraq war lies and became Genocide Joe (to non NPCs) while rushing tens of billions of dollars of bombs and other weapons |
Biden voted for the war's approval, but...."led the Democrats"?? That entire shit-show was led by the GOP. |
The Democrats had to get on board for it to get passed by Congress. Biden took the lead in getting them to vote for the invasion. |
Ya. This is a clear case of *Bi-partisanship* gone awry. That still DOESN'T make Biden the 'bad guy' here.
| tfan wrote: |
| Hubie wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
| I've always seen the MAGA mantra as absurd: when the ratio of (real) American shittiness to Modern American Standard of Living is calculated, the United States of America have never been greater than they are now. |
What you want to calculate is the ability of blue collar workers to get jobs that pay a decent salary that will allow them to live fairly comfortably as was the case for them in previous decades.....<😂too much truth for Howee🤪ALL of your so-called *truths* are too much for me!> .... so if we are greater than ever, why do stores have to lock up general consumer staples that they didn't have to do for the history of self-service stores in my lifetime? |
You are citing talking points that aren't FALSE, but again....they're only a fraction of the entire picture. Shoplifting and Labor Market inequities have been in existence far longer than we have. Name a decade when things were so MUCH GREATER? |
We're both old men. Name the decades of your life where stores were putting normal household items behind locked glass doors. Name the decades when there were so many tent encampments on the sidewalks and in the parks of cities that the Supreme Court had to rule on what cities can do to people in homeless encampments. Specifically, they have to rule if a lower court was correct in ruling that cities cannot punish the homeless when there is no room in shelters |
Homelessness, thievery....all quite real. Apparently far more in YOUR community than mine, and in unprecedented volumes, given the huge rise in our populations. But even by percentages, was there LESS 'back then', or was it just less noticeable/more exposed now? These ought not be dismissed as pointless, but...
BUT....I know I DON'T believe our society was greater THEN, when blacks and other minorities were far less likelyu to receive real justice, when gays were NOT legally protected, nor had the right to marry, when there was probably MORE government corruption and deceit that we never knew about, thanks to greater transparity and journalism these days. Pollution was worse *then*, health care far less advanced or available *then* - you pick a decade where THOSE points were "Better"...."Greater" than now. And yet, the dupable MAGATS believe the Trump-Turd that suppression of journalism (returning to increased ignorance) and less tolerance of diversity, and more divisive racial stances - THESE are all a return to "Greatness"????
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/24 4:36 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Did I just lock this fucker? Jeez I’m as bad Joe Biden._________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/24 4:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
a) I’m not at all sure if I locked it. My finger did hit something unwanted but I just backed out of without paying much attention.
b) I can’t seem to unlock it.
c) But obviously I can still post here and isn’t that all that really matters?
d) HELP!!!_________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/08/24 4:45 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Okay. Figured it out. (I think it’s time for my nap.)
 _________________ Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17 |
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66920
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/24 9:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Very Serious Candidate RFK Jr reportedly wants to stunt cast his running mate, with eminently qualified anti-vaxxer and Sandy Hook denier Aaron Rodgers as the leading candidate
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8949
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/13/24 10:51 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| Very Serious Candidate RFK Jr reportedly wants to stunt cast his running mate, with eminently qualified anti-vaxxer and Sandy Hook denier Aaron Rodgers as the leading candidate |
Can this election get any more vomit-worthy????
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
|
|
scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8860
Location: Niagara Falls
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/14/24 12:49 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| Very Serious Candidate RFK Jr reportedly wants to stunt cast his running mate, with eminently qualified anti-vaxxer and Sandy Hook denier Aaron Rodgers as the leading candidate |
The other person he mentioned was Jesse Ventura. At least he has some actual experience having been the Governor of MN.
_________________
i'll always bleed Storm green.
|
|
Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 760
Location: Houston, TX
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/14/24 2:23 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| Very Serious Candidate RFK Jr reportedly wants to stunt cast his running mate, with eminently qualified anti-vaxxer and Sandy Hook denier Aaron Rodgers as the leading candidate |
If RFK Jr was actually serious he would be on the ballot in every state--not just the battleground ones. Dude has ZERO chance of winning anything. He's a joke.
|
|
Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 756
Location: Siege Perilous
Back to top |
|
toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 22474
Location: NJ
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/18/24 6:14 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| He actually said on Saturday that there would be a bloodbath if he's not elected President. This guy is all types of psychopath.
_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!
Twitter: @TBRBWAY
|
|
Hawkeye
Joined: 10 Aug 2010
Posts: 760
Location: Houston, TX
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/18/24 7:32 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Most of what Trump says you can just flip it. He projects like nobody's business.
|
|
GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/19/24 9:38 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| toad455 wrote: |
| He actually said on Saturday that there would be a bloodbath if he's not elected President. This guy is all types of psychopath. |
No, what he actually said, in context, was that there would be a bloodbath for American automaker jobs unless a 100% tariff is levied on the cars that China is building in massive plants in Mexico, as he would levy if elected. Watch for yourself:
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0Hyuxp1m6CY" title="WATCH: Trump Makes Viral 'Bloodbath' Comments During Comments About Auto Manufacturing At Ohio Rally" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Trump was possibly mimicking the "bloodbath" rhetoric about EV's that the CEO's of both Stellantis and China's Xpeng made earlier this year. |
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 03/19/24 10:06 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Trump was possibly mimicking the "bloodbath" rhetoric about EV's that the CEO's of both Stellantis and China's Xpeng made earlier this year. |
🤣😂🤣
Yeah, yeah. Everybody knows the exact words he said, and their context. Now, I know Trump is a special kind of *stupid*, but he's NOT stupid enough to think that term is perfectly innocuous. When it comes to things such as nuanced subtleties (i.e., the 'shit') that his MAGATs feed on, he's The Best.
Don't defend him Glenn. Just like he told The Proud Boys to "Stand down, and stand by", and all the other doggy whistles he utilizes.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15739
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
|
|
|
