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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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 Posted: 01/09/24 6:22 pm ::: |
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| Stonington_QB wrote: |
| For the last couple of years I've secretly been hoping that they trans the shit out of women's professional basketball. Imagine the NBA being the little brother in the ratings relationship with the WNBA! |
Who do you think is going to want to watch that? Not the typical NBA fan and you will lose the women's sports fans. It would kill the WNBA.
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Michael
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PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
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| Posted: 01/09/24 10:20 pm ::: |
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| My post isn't about trans athletes but, in reading some of the post, I was thinking about the impact that biological/sex differences have on the rates of knee injuries. Bio females are more likely than bio males to have acl and other knee injuries for 2 major reasons: women have wider pelvises and men have more muscle around their knees. There are other related reasons but those are the major 2. Yes, there are things women athletes can do to lessen the likelihood of a knee/acl injury but just pure genetics increases a female athlete's chances of such an injury. Females are generally more flexible, and there's a genetic component to that as well.The science of it is interesting.
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ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
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| Posted: 01/10/24 5:25 am ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| Michael, you have yet to cite your sources on any of your anecdotes |
If you provided credible source material for the incidents you continue to just summarize -
| Quote: |
| In less than an hour of looking for instances: Cis girl knocked out in hockey game by trans girl, three cis girls injured and unable to continue in one game of Rugby in Guam by a trans girl, two girls badly injured by trans girls in volleyball from very hard spikes to the face. One received a skull fracture, the other neck and back injuries and a concussion all of which still plagued her months later. For both the injuries end their athletic careers, volleyball and basketball. I linked that video in the first post of this thread. The trans girl hit the ball so high in the air it went over the blocker at the net by a foot but still hit the defender at the 10' line so hard it bounced off her face, into the net distorting it very visibly and then back 5 feet into the court before hitting the ground... Another girl lost teeth to a hard deflected shot from a trans woman in field hockey... |
- the points (I assume) you are trying to make would be stronger.
| Quote: |
| In less than an hour |
you found all of these. By just doing what you've been asked to do multiple times, you could have helped to make your case! If you found articles citing all of this, why didn't you also include the links for each one? The one link you provided at the start is not cutting it...
It's too easy to just put stuff out there without evidence from credible sources. Continuing the vagaries has just p!ssed people off and weakened your argument. Such an easy fix - just do it, dude! Probably won't win folks over, but it might take some of the heat off yourself.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 01/10/24 9:43 am ::: |
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| ChiSky54 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Michael, you have yet to cite your sources on any of your anecdotes |
If you provided credible source material for the incidents you continue to just summarize -
| Quote: |
| In less than an hour of looking for instances: Cis girl knocked out in hockey game by trans girl, three cis girls injured and unable to continue in one game of Rugby in Guam by a trans girl, two girls badly injured by trans girls in volleyball from very hard spikes to the face. One received a skull fracture, the other neck and back injuries and a concussion all of which still plagued her months later. For both the injuries end their athletic careers, volleyball and basketball. I linked that video in the first post of this thread. The trans girl hit the ball so high in the air it went over the blocker at the net by a foot but still hit the defender at the 10' line so hard it bounced off her face, into the net distorting it very visibly and then back 5 feet into the court before hitting the ground... Another girl lost teeth to a hard deflected shot from a trans woman in field hockey... |
- the points (I assume) you are trying to make would be stronger.
| Quote: |
| In less than an hour |
you found all of these. By just doing what you've been asked to do multiple times, you could have helped to make your case! If you found articles citing all of this, why didn't you also include the links for each one? The one link you provided at the start is not cutting it...
It's too easy to just put stuff out there without evidence from credible sources. Continuing the vagaries has just p!ssed people off and weakened your argument. Such an easy fix - just do it, dude! Probably won't win folks over, but it might take some of the heat off yourself. |
I believe I have linked articles and/or video for every instance I have mentioned early in this discussion. That no one bothers to click on the links in their rush to judgement and to maintain their willful ignorance is not my fault.
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Michael
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/10/24 3:23 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| Stonington_QB wrote: |
| For the last couple of years I've secretly been hoping that they trans the shit out of women's professional basketball. Imagine the NBA being the little brother in the ratings relationship with the WNBA! |
Who do you think is going to want to watch that? Not the typical NBA fan and you will lose the women's sports fans. It would kill the WNBA. |
I don't think your typical NBA fan would be the target audience quite frankly. The NBA's ratings have been in sharp decline over the years. Seriously, who watches that any more anyways? The WNBA, on the other hand, is at least seeing modest increases in viewership. Not by me of course, but in my defense I don't watch NBA either.
Honest question: What does the WNBA have to lose by letting that happen? Their soul? Their brand reputation? That's laughable. Viewers? I think not. In fact, I think they wouldn't know what to do with the massive ratings increase. Could this happen at the collegiate level? Maybe. It's already happening.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/10/24 3:27 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| I believe I have linked articles and/or video for every instance I have mentioned early in this discussion. That no one bothers to click on the links in their rush to judgement and to maintain their willful ignorance is not my fault. |
I do not see the links you are referring to
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 01/10/24 4:55 pm ::: |
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| Until such time that this issue becomes a reality in NCAA womens basketball this thread belongs on another board.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 01/10/24 6:38 pm ::: |
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While I think that a discussion among trans accepting people about this issue would be valuable, I don't find anything enlightening coming from those who wish trans people would either disappear altogether or don't care that young trans people are killing themselves at alarming rates due to those who want them to disappear.
Most of the differences between males and females can be traced to the hormone influx during adolescence. Please note I say "most" but not "all." The physical advantages gained during male adolescence DO give an unfair advantage to post adolescent male to female transition. I don't have a clear solution that gives these male to female young people an outlet for their wish to compete that is fair to everyone.
I also think that the right wing wish that trans people will blow up women's sports is highly offensive and has no place here.
Some people in this discussion have made it clear that they care deeply about the lives of young trans people, others have made it clear they don't GAF about these people. I care deeply about young trans people, young cis people and the future of women's sports.
Part of my solution (which I acknowledge is not going to happen in the US today) is for every child who knows they are trans is allowed to transition before puberty hits so they can compete on an even field with cis athletes. Regarding how to proceed when young trans people aren't allowed to transition until well after puberty, they deserve deep and thoughtful discussion among those of us who care about them as full people deserving of dignity.
Again, those of you who have skewed views about transexuals based on right wing propaganda and misinformation (lies) can just stop with your baiting. You've made your points about m/f bio differences after puberty as well as the fact you don't care one whit about the trans people who were forced to go through puberty, and are just trying to live the life that is right for them. Again, they deserve thoughtful conversation among those who care about ALL of the people involved.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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| Posted: 01/10/24 6:45 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| I also think that the right wing wish that trans people will blow up women's sports is highly offensive and has no place here. |
I doubt any of the *wing-nuts* give ratz azz about women's sports -they're primary goal is to SCARE people into hating anything "The Liberals" might vote for. In their eyes, it's a political pawn.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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Location: Durham, NC
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| Posted: 01/10/24 9:07 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| I also think that the right wing wish that trans people will blow up women's sports is highly offensive and has no place here. |
I doubt any of the *wing-nuts* give ratz azz about women's sports -they're primary goal is to SCARE people into hating anything "The Liberals" might vote for. In their eyes, it's a political pawn. |
Yeah, it's pretty trendy for right wing nuts to laugh about blowing up everything. As if that wouldn't impact every boy/girl/trans kid in the country.
The obvious answer is to allow children who know they are trans to transition before puberty. And, no, I don't want another misinformed debate about whether trans children can know they are trans. I know they can. Their parents know they can.
PS: as a non binary person not aware of that identity and not having the choice to stop puberty, I don't think I would have done so since I wanted to have children. Ovarian cancer took that away at age 20.
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CalwbbFan
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: 01/11/24 12:51 pm ::: |
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| I also shake my head when I see these efforts to "protect girls and women in sport" promoted by people who would be first in line to repeal Title IX if given the opportunity. This all is performative baloney, using the few trans individuals as a cudgel to gin up hysteria and hate. None of these anti-trans agitators give a whit about the well-being of girls or women in sports (or elsewhere for that matter).
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7845
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 01/11/24 12:56 pm ::: |
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| Michael wrote: |
| ChiSky54 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Michael, you have yet to cite your sources on any of your anecdotes |
If you provided credible source material for the incidents you continue to just summarize -
| Quote: |
| In less than an hour of looking for instances: Cis girl knocked out in hockey game by trans girl, three cis girls injured and unable to continue in one game of Rugby in Guam by a trans girl, two girls badly injured by trans girls in volleyball from very hard spikes to the face. One received a skull fracture, the other neck and back injuries and a concussion all of which still plagued her months later. For both the injuries end their athletic careers, volleyball and basketball. I linked that video in the first post of this thread. The trans girl hit the ball so high in the air it went over the blocker at the net by a foot but still hit the defender at the 10' line so hard it bounced off her face, into the net distorting it very visibly and then back 5 feet into the court before hitting the ground... Another girl lost teeth to a hard deflected shot from a trans woman in field hockey... |
- the points (I assume) you are trying to make would be stronger.
| Quote: |
| In less than an hour |
you found all of these. By just doing what you've been asked to do multiple times, you could have helped to make your case! If you found articles citing all of this, why didn't you also include the links for each one? The one link you provided at the start is not cutting it...
It's too easy to just put stuff out there without evidence from credible sources. Continuing the vagaries has just p!ssed people off and weakened your argument. Such an easy fix - just do it, dude! Probably won't win folks over, but it might take some of the heat off yourself. |
I believe I have linked articles and/or video for every instance I have mentioned early in this discussion. That no one bothers to click on the links in their rush to judgement and to maintain their willful ignorance is not my fault. |
You have not.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 01/11/24 12:59 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| Until such time that this issue becomes a reality in NCAA womens basketball this thread belongs on another board. |
Thank you, linkster. He's been asked to move this to Area 51 and has not done so.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 01/11/24 1:01 pm ::: |
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Not CREDIBLE links. Sorry. Get good ones and maybe we could have a decent discussion. Until then please move this to Area 51.
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Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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Location: Siege Perilous
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| Posted: 01/11/24 1:24 pm ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| The obvious answer is to allow children who know they are trans to transition before puberty. And, no, I don't want another misinformed debate about whether trans children can know they are trans. I know they can. Their parents know they can. |
Which "misinformed debate" are you trying to avoid? The one where you are claiming that children "know they are trans" or the one where you are trying to conflate that topic with allowing biological males in women's sports?
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/13/24 3:34 am ::: |
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| Stonington_QB wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| The obvious answer is to allow children who know they are trans to transition before puberty. And, no, I don't want another misinformed debate about whether trans children can know they are trans. I know they can. Their parents know they can. |
Which "misinformed debate" are you trying to avoid? The one where you are claiming that children "know they are trans" or the one where you are trying to conflate that topic with allowing biological males in women's sports? |
You have nothing of interest to contribute to this topic. You are chock full of right wing propaganda and everything you say reeks of misinformation circulating on right wing media.
I DO KNOW that children can know they are trans, so there is no discussion. I also made it quite clear that trans women who've gone through male puberty have an advantage over cis girls and young women, making the issue unclear about whether they should be eligible to play with cis girls and young women.
I agree with summertime that since no trans women are wanting to play in Div.1 women's basketball, this entire discuss does not belong on a board devoted to women's college basketball.
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 01/13/24 4:16 am ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| Stonington_QB wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| The obvious answer is to allow children who know they are trans to transition before puberty. And, no, I don't want another misinformed debate about whether trans children can know they are trans. I know they can. Their parents know they can. |
Which "misinformed debate" are you trying to avoid? The one where you are claiming that children "know they are trans" or the one where you are trying to conflate that topic with allowing biological males in women's sports? |
You have nothing of interest to contribute to this topic. You are chock full of right wing propaganda and everything you say reeks of misinformation circulating on right wing media.
I DO KNOW that children can know they are trans, so there is no discussion. I also made it quite clear that trans women who've gone through male puberty have an advantage over cis girls and young women, making the issue unclear about whether they should be eligible to play with cis girls and young women.
I agree with summertime that since no trans women are wanting to play in Div.1 women's basketball, this entire discuss does not belong on a board devoted to women's college basketball. |
Let's get a few things perfectly clear... You do not get to decide whether or not I can participate on this board. Second, your extremist views on politics do not dictate whether or not people with opposing viewpoints are allowed to have an opinion. You sit there accusing me of right-wing propaganda when there is none, all while spewing your left-wing diatribe, repeating at verbatim the talking points of the least qualified politicians and media personalities in which you get your marching orders from.
Now when it comes to children, much like your politics YOU KNOW NOTHING. Whatever happened to you in your life (that I'm not going to dive into) does not make you an expert on children. We have actual experts for that. Children do not know whether or not they are trans, they are just confused because of people like YOU telling them nonsense. We are talking about allowing ADULT biological males in women's collegiate and pro sports. We have already allowed women to play in men's professional sports. That is a fact. Now obviously they didn't make it but they were there. And NO, we are NOT going to be giving small children puberty blockers in order to compete in sports as you so foolishly suggested. Or for any other reason for that matter. Your life events do not change that. In fact you should not be allowed within 10,000 ft of a child after what you've said here quite frankly. Your willingness to screw up a child for life puts you right up there with pedophiles in most people's opinions. YOU ARE DANGEROUS TO CHILDREN AND SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED NEAR THEM. That does not change no matter how much dirty laundry you want to air into this conversation. Maybe no one else here is going to call you out on it (except Michaeil, good on him) but I will. And you are certainly not going to sit there and tell me I'm not allowed to have an opinion after saying all of that. But thanks anyways for bringing all of that up when no one was asking, I probably would have just said nothing if it weren't for that. But thanks anyways for personally taking this conversation so far off the rails from the original topic and then turning around trying to silence those you don't like from weighing in.
You are also wrong about whether or not trans people want to play sports because it's happening. Yes, at the college level. So evidently you don't even speak for trans people. The only thing I will agree with is that this topic does indeed belong in Area 51.
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Howee
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Stonington_QB
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| Posted: 01/15/24 6:54 am ::: |
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No surprise here the village idiot is "all-in" on bashing me...
"Nuclear Howee" over here trying to start shit. Lol.
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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| Posted: 01/15/24 8:10 am ::: |
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Just because this got moved to 51 doesn't mean the problem goes away. It doesn't mean that the discussions don't need to be had.
And on THIS day no less. A day to celebrate a man that forced this country to have some difficult discussions, discussions that made this a better country, voices are silenced.
There are a couple of people here that should be ashamed of themselves.
And to whoever moved this to 51...wrong, wrong, wrong. It was a general basketball question on a general basketball discussion board. THAT was the place for this. Not 51.
If a few people didn't like the discussion, didn't want to participate, well, then, don't click on the fucking link!!!!! It's really pretty simple.
And don't worry about me. I realize I'm talking to myself here in Area 51. I guess I'll just have to form my opinion as to whether trans girls belong in girl's athletics on my own. I'm afraid that the trans girls are going to lose out though. I mean I have nothing to counter my current thoughts as to why they should be allowed.
Sorry kids, the "adults" just got in the way again. I know it hurts. I've been there. I was told that I'd "understand one day." Well a few decades worth of days later, I still don't understand.
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“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 02/28/24 1:12 am ::: |
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| Any of you who really thought THIS wasn't going to affect *our* sport....you might wanna take in the story. It's certainly presenting a "Christian" bias (as it's a Christian school) but it does illustrate the reality of this phenomenon.
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Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
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| Posted: 04/15/24 8:57 am ::: |
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| Thomas is actually a near perfect case study for why trans women competing against cis-women is so unfair. Thomas as a male swimmer was ranked 550+ in the world by time against all other male swimmers. After their transition, they are top 10-20 in the world by time against women. They have openly stated part of the reason they transitioned was in pursuit of their dream to swim in the Olympics. The world record times for women's swimming are slower than the cutoff times for even participating in the men's events in the Olympics. There is no treatment regimen or medical procedure that will make trans women equally competitive against women as they were against men pre-transition. Its ridiculously unfair and violates the intent if not the actual wording of Title9 as current lawsuits are pursuing in the court systems as we speak.
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Michael
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Furthermore, they'll never *get* the concept that They and Their General Stupidity are the GREATEST danger to children of our society. NOTHING can "screw up a child" like stupid parents who are convinced that they know all.
