| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Michael
Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 602
Back to top |
|
FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3515
Back to top |
 Posted: 04/02/23 3:22 pm ::: |
Reply  |
|
| "Thug" comes from "Thuggee," gangs or fraternities of robbers and assassins dating back to the 1300's in India and Bengal, and since has become synonymous with a common criminal. The term has criminal justice and socioeconomic connotations rather than racist ones. Adopting a term like this and making it your own doesn't help your cause.
|
|
PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
Posts: 429
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/02/23 5:18 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| "Thug" comes from "Thuggee," gangs or fraternities of robbers and assassins dating back to the 1300's in India and Bengal, and since has become synonymous with a common criminal. The term has criminal justice and socioeconomic connotations rather than racist ones. Adopting a term like this and making it your own doesn't help your cause. |
What you say about the origins of the word is accurate but it's not the case that the word has no racial and racist connotations. The Atlantic featured an article years ago on the history of the word. Excellent read: https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/04/thug/391682/
|
|
pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 66912
Location: Where the action is
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/02/23 7:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| "Thug" comes from "Thuggee," gangs or fraternities of robbers and assassins dating back to the 1300's in India and Bengal, and since has become synonymous with a common criminal. The term has criminal justice and socioeconomic connotations rather than racist ones. Adopting a term like this and making it your own doesn't help your cause. |
Just like gay means happy and nothing else...
_________________
I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
|
|
Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 15737
Location: OREGON (in my heart)
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/02/23 9:16 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| pilight wrote: |
| FrozenLVFan wrote: |
| "Thug" comes from "Thuggee," gangs or fraternities of robbers and assassins dating back to the 1300's in India and Bengal, and since has become synonymous with a common criminal. The term has criminal justice and socioeconomic connotations rather than racist ones. Adopting a term like this and making it your own doesn't help your cause. |
Just like gay means happy and nothing else... |
Any and all words are what we MAKE them into, and how we then utilize them.
_________________
Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
|
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/02/23 9:58 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Does racism exist? Of course. But calling out racism at every point does not help to cure the problem. I heard Don Imus describe the Rutgers team in 2007 and that WAS racist. But Dawn Staley seemed to call out racism by unnamed sources.
I'm sorry, but the term "thugs" describes someone who uses physical action to intimidate. When I hear the word "thug" I think of a mafia-style enforcer who is white with a crooked nose (Is that racist? I don't think so because it is not the essence of the definition but rather the first image my mind conjures up.) The term "thug life" was used by hip hop culture as a positive term to describe living with a resilient attitude to succeed in life despite racism. Using that definition Dawn Staley would certainly be living a "thug life" and therefore shouldn't be at all offended for having her team referred to as thugs.
My sense is that Dawn Staley threw out these statements to deflect criticism of her team (and her coaching) for having lost to a team with far less skill and athleticism than her own. It is a shame that South Carolina had to bow out that way.
|
|
undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/02/23 10:10 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
I'm just younger white guy from the midwest, but the word thug absolutely has racial undertones, in my experience. It is a widely known dog whistle to refer to Black people unfavorably by evoking images of violence, crime, and "urban" (aka Black) life.
I'm pretty shocked to read that other people don't think the word thug has a negative racial connotation.
Are the differences regional? Generational? Are some people here just posting in bad faith?
I genuinely don't know.
_________________
RebKell's 2021-2022 NCAA Fantasy League Regular Season Champion 🏆
|
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/02/23 11:54 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Michael wrote: |
| huskiemaniac wrote: |
I do believe Sharpton and Staley are genuinely good people.
ALL this sh/t has got to end, beginning with the racism. I doubt it ever will. :cry: |
Al Sharpton is most definitely NOT a good or nice person. He first came to fame in the 60s when a black girl falsely accused two cops of raping her to cover for the fact she stayed over with her boyfriend the previous night and had sex. Sharpton came up out of nowhere grandstanding and playing to the press for all it was worth. He insinuated himself as the girls mouthpiece and called for the officers arrest, conviction and execution. When the truth came out, Sharpton doubled down, continue to harass the officers until both left the force and one committed suicide which Sharpton gloated about.
When the Wilson shooting came up, Sharpton was there again up to his old tricks. He found a girl that lived on the block and convinced her to tell the "hands up don't shoot" story. Problem was she was at a friends house 5 miles away and the friend and the friends family all signed affadivits to that effect. Didn't stop Sharpton from preaching his false planted narrative. That's how he makes his millions, enough so that he owes over 20 million in back taxes on unclaimed income but the government is scared to go after him over it. Now how does a simple preacher make enough to be worth over 70 million and owe 20 million back taxes? By exploiting the racial divide and making it worse every chance he gets for his own profit. Every time he gets in front of the camera spouting his lies and hate, donations pour in. |
Your recollections of Al Sharpton are inaccurate. He was well known in New York well before the Tawana Brawley case. He had come into the public eye as a youth getting involved with civil rights efforts under the tutelage of Jesse Jackson. My first recollection of him was associated with the Bernhard Goetz shootings in 1984. With regard to Tawana Brawley, that was in the 1987, not the sixties. The policeman that committed suicide did so on December 2,1987, only 4 days after Brawley was found. He wasn't implicated in the case until after he had committed suicide, but the timing of his death led to speculation that he might have been involved. His suicide note spoke of his inability to pass a test for a promotion.
As for the Ferguson shooting there were some people who told stories that couldn't be corroborated, but I am unaware of Sharpton being directly involved in someone making up a story.
I also believe that Al Sharpton is generally a good man and a good advocate for civil rights. He is not above reproach but his 40 years of being a passionate advocate for the rights of black Americans and against overaggresive policing have been a net positive,
|
|
calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 5155
Location: Carson City
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 12:07 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| undersized_post wrote: |
I'm just younger white guy from the midwest, but the word thug absolutely has racial undertones, in my experience. It is a widely known dog whistle to refer to Black people unfavorably by evoking images of violence, crime, and "urban" (aka Black) life.
I'm pretty shocked to read that other people don't think the word thug has a negative racial connotation.
Are the differences regional? Generational? Are some people here just posting in bad faith?
I genuinely don't know. |
Just wondering, how old are you? It seems the racial connotation of thug seemed to have come about this century so perhaps there is a different perception of people under 40-50 years old.
|
|
Tally24
Joined: 14 Feb 2012
Posts: 2709
Location: Baton Rouge
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 12:34 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| calbearman76 wrote: |
| undersized_post wrote: |
I'm just younger white guy from the midwest, but the word thug absolutely has racial undertones, in my experience. It is a widely known dog whistle to refer to Black people unfavorably by evoking images of violence, crime, and "urban" (aka Black) life.
I'm pretty shocked to read that other people don't think the word thug has a negative racial connotation.
Are the differences regional? Generational? Are some people here just posting in bad faith?
I genuinely don't know. |
Just wondering, how old are you? It seems the racial connotation of thug seemed to have come about this century so perhaps there is a different perception of people under 40-50 years old. |
I’m a 26 year old white man who grew up in Houston, went to undergrad at ASU, and I am currently in grad school at LSU. For me, the word thug absolutely has racial undertones, along with “urban.” Both of which are often used to really just mean “those people” and signifying a certain “type” of behavior. They are, now, racially coded words that are operating on two levels—surface and more complex. |
|
summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 11:22 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Tally24 wrote: |
| calbearman76 wrote: |
| undersized_post wrote: |
I'm just younger white guy from the midwest, but the word thug absolutely has racial undertones, in my experience. It is a widely known dog whistle to refer to Black people unfavorably by evoking images of violence, crime, and "urban" (aka Black) life.
I'm pretty shocked to read that other people don't think the word thug has a negative racial connotation.
Are the differences regional? Generational? Are some people here just posting in bad faith?
I genuinely don't know. |
Just wondering, how old are you? It seems the racial connotation of thug seemed to have come about this century so perhaps there is a different perception of people under 40-50 years old. |
I’m a 26 year old white man who grew up in Houston, went to undergrad at ASU, and I am currently in grad school at LSU. For me, the word thug absolutely has racial undertones, along with “urban.” Both of which are often used to really just mean “those people” and signifying a certain “type” of behavior. They are, now, racially coded words that are operating on two levels—surface and more complex. |
I'm a LOT older than Tally and I second what he is saying. I'm a 79 year old grandma who grew up in Wisconsin and went to UW (go Badgers!), moved to Tennessee which is where I first got involved with WBB, and not live in Virginia. "Thug" is definitely a racially charged code word which I think I first heard used in the late 80s or 90s to talk about "those people" and specifically the ones who lived in cities, but also "those people" who were young and male and any females who associated with them.
_________________
Don't take life so serious. It ain't nohows permanent.
It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
|
|
scullyfu
Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8860
Location: Niagara Falls
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 12:30 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
Who remembers these guys?
https://www.facebook.com/OfficialBoneThugs/
How do you think they meant for their name to be interpreted? I honestly don’t know cuz I never listened to them, only knew of them.
_________________
i'll always bleed Storm green.
|
|
PG4ever
Joined: 14 May 2020
Posts: 429
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 2:00 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| Quote: |
Al Sharpton is most definitely NOT a good or nice person. He first came to fame in the 60s when a black girl falsely accused two cops of raping her to cover for the fact she stayed over with her boyfriend the previous night and had sex. Sharpton came up out of nowhere grandstanding and playing to the press for all it was worth. He insinuated himself as the girls mouthpiece and called for the officers arrest, conviction and execution. When the truth came out, Sharpton doubled down, continue to harass the officers until both left the force and one committed suicide which Sharpton gloated about.
When the Wilson shooting came up, Sharpton was there again up to his old tricks. He found a girl that lived on the block and convinced her to tell the "hands up don't shoot" story. Problem was she was at a friends house 5 miles away and the friend and the friends family all signed affadivits to that effect. Didn't stop Sharpton from preaching his false planted narrative. That's how he makes his millions, enough so that he owes over 20 million in back taxes on unclaimed income but the government is scared to go after him over it. Now how does a simple preacher make enough to be worth over 70 million and owe 20 million back taxes? By exploiting the racial divide and making it worse every chance he gets for his own profit. Every time he gets in front of the camera spouting his lies and hate, donations pour in. |
I'm curious as to what sources you consulted to support your opinions about Sharpton. I think even Sharpton would admit he's made personal and political mis-steps but you have some egregious errors here about him.
|
|
undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 3:40 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| dp
_________________
RebKell's 2021-2022 NCAA Fantasy League Regular Season Champion 🏆
Last edited by undersized_post on 04/03/23 3:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
undersized_post
Joined: 01 Mar 2021
Posts: 2864
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 3:43 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| summertime blues wrote: |
| Tally24 wrote: |
| calbearman76 wrote: |
| undersized_post wrote: |
I'm just younger white guy from the midwest, but the word thug absolutely has racial undertones, in my experience. It is a widely known dog whistle to refer to Black people unfavorably by evoking images of violence, crime, and "urban" (aka Black) life.
I'm pretty shocked to read that other people don't think the word thug has a negative racial connotation.
Are the differences regional? Generational? Are some people here just posting in bad faith?
I genuinely don't know. |
Just wondering, how old are you? It seems the racial connotation of thug seemed to have come about this century so perhaps there is a different perception of people under 40-50 years old. |
I’m a 26 year old white man who grew up in Houston, went to undergrad at ASU, and I am currently in grad school at LSU. For me, the word thug absolutely has racial undertones, along with “urban.” Both of which are often used to really just mean “those people” and signifying a certain “type” of behavior. They are, now, racially coded words that are operating on two levels—surface and more complex. |
I'm a LOT older than Tally and I second what he is saying. I'm a 79 year old grandma who grew up in Wisconsin and went to UW (go Badgers!), moved to Tennessee which is where I first got involved with WBB, and not live in Virginia. "Thug" is definitely a racially charged code word which I think I first heard used in the late 80s or 90s to talk about "those people" and specifically the ones who lived in cities, but also "those people" who were young and male and any females who associated with them. |
Yes to both of you @tally and summertime.
Calbear I'm also in my 20's. Thanks for the response.
_________________
RebKell's 2021-2022 NCAA Fantasy League Regular Season Champion 🏆
|
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 4:19 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| barryi22 wrote: |
I've always felt Dawn calls it how she sees it. I'm not black but can respect her perspective even if I don't always see things in the same light she does (ex. her canceling the BYU game). Not the same conversation but along political/racial lines, she started out the press conference thanking the Dallas police department for doing a good job moving the team around the city this week which reaches across the barrier of some racial/social lines in today's world.
In regards to her team, I think she has every right be stand up and be extremely defensive of her players. They're all well to do kids who are unselfish, work their butts off, play hard and they're great reps for the university. They don't have off the court issues and have helped draw in a ton of fans for women's basketball. They interview well, are respectful, and also happen to be predominantly black. I've never seen them play dirty, lose their cool or make cheap shots at opposing players. They're a great group of players on and off the court, but the general vibe with how people talk about SC or her team doesn't reflect this. There's sometimes more of a negative connotation due to style of play, and they're physical but I think people sometimes dismiss them as being dirty players which I think is very off base.
For comparison, I think a lot of Pat's teams or Vic's teams at MSU had similar qualities to South Carolina in these areas but received more positive feedback for their coaching/playing style, where South Carolina doesn't get the same credit. Both of those programs had white coaches, while Dawn is black. Is the difference in perception racially motivated? I don't think I'm in a position to make that conclusion, but I can 100% understand if Dawn believes that's the case or that it contributes to it. |
The problem with her press conference comments was that no one had accused her team of anything. Geno specifically complained about the officiating. He never mentioned nor did he characterize her program or her players. So either she never bothered to find out what was said or else she knew but she saw an opportunity to play the victim again and didn't care about the truth.
|
|
mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19760
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 4:34 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| linkster wrote: |
| barryi22 wrote: |
I've always felt Dawn calls it how she sees it. I'm not black but can respect her perspective even if I don't always see things in the same light she does (ex. her canceling the BYU game). Not the same conversation but along political/racial lines, she started out the press conference thanking the Dallas police department for doing a good job moving the team around the city this week which reaches across the barrier of some racial/social lines in today's world.
In regards to her team, I think she has every right be stand up and be extremely defensive of her players. They're all well to do kids who are unselfish, work their butts off, play hard and they're great reps for the university. They don't have off the court issues and have helped draw in a ton of fans for women's basketball. They interview well, are respectful, and also happen to be predominantly black. I've never seen them play dirty, lose their cool or make cheap shots at opposing players. They're a great group of players on and off the court, but the general vibe with how people talk about SC or her team doesn't reflect this. There's sometimes more of a negative connotation due to style of play, and they're physical but I think people sometimes dismiss them as being dirty players which I think is very off base.
For comparison, I think a lot of Pat's teams or Vic's teams at MSU had similar qualities to South Carolina in these areas but received more positive feedback for their coaching/playing style, where South Carolina doesn't get the same credit. Both of those programs had white coaches, while Dawn is black. Is the difference in perception racially motivated? I don't think I'm in a position to make that conclusion, but I can 100% understand if Dawn believes that's the case or that it contributes to it. |
The problem with her press conference comments was that no one had accused her team of anything. Geno specifically complained about the officiating. He never mentioned nor did he characterize her program or her players. So either she never bothered to find out what was said or else she knew but she saw an opportunity to play the victim again and didn't care about the truth. |
Like I’ve said, two things can be true.
SoCar is a very physical team and the refs don’t call them for it - so coaches complain. Coaches have every right to complain.
And racist dog whistles (thug and monkey?!? in particular) have been used to describe her team and their physical play. She has every right to be upset about that and defend them.
I think it’s likely that the second has happened a few times, to the point that she feels when teams complain (UConn for instance) it always has the dog whistle attached- which isn’t fair. But also understandable.
_________________
“Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
|
|
linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
Posts: 5423
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 5:06 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
| barryi22 wrote: |
I've always felt Dawn calls it how she sees it. I'm not black but can respect her perspective even if I don't always see things in the same light she does (ex. her canceling the BYU game). Not the same conversation but along political/racial lines, she started out the press conference thanking the Dallas police department for doing a good job moving the team around the city this week which reaches across the barrier of some racial/social lines in today's world.
In regards to her team, I think she has every right be stand up and be extremely defensive of her players. They're all well to do kids who are unselfish, work their butts off, play hard and they're great reps for the university. They don't have off the court issues and have helped draw in a ton of fans for women's basketball. They interview well, are respectful, and also happen to be predominantly black. I've never seen them play dirty, lose their cool or make cheap shots at opposing players. They're a great group of players on and off the court, but the general vibe with how people talk about SC or her team doesn't reflect this. There's sometimes more of a negative connotation due to style of play, and they're physical but I think people sometimes dismiss them as being dirty players which I think is very off base.
For comparison, I think a lot of Pat's teams or Vic's teams at MSU had similar qualities to South Carolina in these areas but received more positive feedback for their coaching/playing style, where South Carolina doesn't get the same credit. Both of those programs had white coaches, while Dawn is black. Is the difference in perception racially motivated? I don't think I'm in a position to make that conclusion, but I can 100% understand if Dawn believes that's the case or that it contributes to it. |
The problem with her press conference comments was that no one had accused her team of anything. Geno specifically complained about the officiating. He never mentioned nor did he characterize her program or her players. So either she never bothered to find out what was said or else she knew but she saw an opportunity to play the victim again and didn't care about the truth. |
Like I’ve said, two things can be true.
SoCar is a very physical team and the refs don’t call them for it - so coaches complain. Coaches have every right to complain.
And racist dog whistles (thug and monkey?!? in particular) have been used to describe her team and their physical play. She has every right to be upset about that and defend them.
I think it’s likely that the second has happened a few times, to the point that she feels when teams complain (UConn for instance) it always has the dog whistle attached- which isn’t fair. But also understandable. |
Was it a racist dog whistle when Geno complained about the way officials allowed Pat Summit's team to brutalize Taurasi? Dawn has no time perspective. Geno has complained about the excessive physicality that is allowed in wcbb for over 20 years. It's always been about the officials, not the opponent. But Dawn can't see past her own personal situation and the day after Geno's comments she tosses out the racism card. Geno never used thug or any words to describe her team and yet she gave that impression.
Religion and politics have no place in basketball.
|
|
GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 14109
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 7:48 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| N/A
|
|
Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 8947
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/03/23 8:08 pm ::: |
Reply |
|
| I thought that everyone learned that monkey was racist when Howard Cosell got in trouble for it.
_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
|
|
Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
Posts: 3318
Back to top |
|
ChiSky54
Joined: 19 Jun 2019
Posts: 667
Location: Chicago
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/04/23 7:20 am ::: |
Reply |
|
Wow...okay.
A 69-year-old black lesbian here.
I originally excerpted this article on the game thread. It has since been re-edited! This is the original content:
| ChiSky54 wrote: |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2023/04/01/dawn-staley-calls-out-media-bar-fight-comments-final-four/11582968002/
| Quote: |
While Dawn Staley was not thrilled about South Carolina’s Final Four loss to Iowa on Friday, the legendary coach was also not happy about the ongoing negative labels attached to her basketball program.
Prior to Friday’s game, Iowa head coach Lisa Bluder referenced someone who described going up against the Gamecocks for rebounds was like “going to a bar fight.” Staley did not take kindly to those remarks. After Friday’s defeat, she addressed the stereotypes regarding her team’s physicality and style of play, something that has been a topic of discussion the entire season.
...However, Staley has remained true to her coaching philosophy. Revealing that she got word of several national media members making comments that she suggested were impolite and rude, she has no intention of changing her coaching style for anyone. |
|
The updated article clarifies the timing of what she heard, and it includes a piece I meant to include.
| Quote: |
| Staley then revealed she was told that national media members at an event Thursday made comments she implied were unfair or disrespectful. They were comments Staley said she intended to address whether they won or lost Friday. |
A lot has been said that I agree with here; will recap and add.
Racism is a systemic thing imposed by those in power. So I can be prejudiced, discriminatory or biased but not racist.
Language is powerful. Some people reclaim certain terms that have been used negatively as a way of taking away the word's power to hurt or insult. Thus the use of "thug" and "gangsta" in some circles as a positive. In a different thread, I said that I will refer to myself as a dyke but never the n-word. One's context or environment make some terminology acceptable, but outside of that context, it can be misinterpreted or misused. The n-word is used liberally in some popular music, but if a non-black person sings/raps along and freely says it, it often becomes a problem.
"[We're] so sensitive!" Yeah. tl:dr if you don't want to read specifics - when crap like this happens multiple times in a day, week, month, whatever, it takes its toll. There is always an underlying awareness that some people might choose to respond negatively to you because you've experienced it so often. You want to believe it's not all race-related, but you never know. Maybe you're just being a jerk; maybe the other person is having a bad day; maybe you're giving off perceived bad vibes; they might not like women or perceive or know you are a lesbian (or pick your category) and it makes them mad; maybe they're just mean; or maybe they are just being a jerk. Dawn, in the spotlight, and having had many of her own experiences, responded in a way that was understood by some, rejected by others, and possibly gave others pause.
You deal everyday with microaggressions like waiting for a bus - when a car caught by a traffic light notices you and you hear a click as occupants remember that they didn't lock the door. Or someone jumps directly in front of you when you are already there perusing groceries; when you say "Excuse me?", they say, "Oh, I didn't see you there." Or a person is walking a dog that has passed many others quietly, but they get to you and the dog barks. Macroaggressions like walking down the street in a liberal Chicago suburb while chatting - not loudly - with a cousin; a cyclist rides by (on the sidewalk - against the law, btw) and says, "Get out of the way, n...s!") I could go on, but I hope you get the point. These happened to me, and some more than once.
Code words are a real thing that are understood within certain circles. In a different realm, think of the example that men are seen as assertive (positive) but women are seen as aggressive (negative - a ball-buster, a b-). Then there is the ever popular trigger phrase "you people...", which highlights differences instead of acknowledging commonalities. During a college communications class, I was the only black student. We had an exercise: someone briefly looked at a sketch of a street scene (a black man and a white man were talking on the corner, and the black guy was pointing his finger at the white guy) and had to describe it to someone who was out of the room, who then had to describe it to the next person who came in. It became an outrageous game of telephone. By the fifth recounting of the scene, the black guy had pulled a gun...
Unless you've lived it, you don't understand. Some will empathize, others will believe it's much ado about nothing, while still others are open to hearing and listening so they can glimpse life through different lenses.
_________________
There is nothing new under the sun.
|
|
wnbafan
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 737
Location: Delaware
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/04/23 8:31 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| ChiSky54 wrote: |
Wow...okay.
A 69-year-old black lesbian here.
I originally excerpted this article on the game thread. It has since been re-edited! This is the original content:
| ChiSky54 wrote: |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaw/2023/04/01/dawn-staley-calls-out-media-bar-fight-comments-final-four/11582968002/
| Quote: |
While Dawn Staley was not thrilled about South Carolina’s Final Four loss to Iowa on Friday, the legendary coach was also not happy about the ongoing negative labels attached to her basketball program.
Prior to Friday’s game, Iowa head coach Lisa Bluder referenced someone who described going up against the Gamecocks for rebounds was like “going to a bar fight.” Staley did not take kindly to those remarks. After Friday’s defeat, she addressed the stereotypes regarding her team’s physicality and style of play, something that has been a topic of discussion the entire season.
...However, Staley has remained true to her coaching philosophy. Revealing that she got word of several national media members making comments that she suggested were impolite and rude, she has no intention of changing her coaching style for anyone. |
|
The updated article clarifies the timing of what she heard, and it includes a piece I meant to include.
| Quote: |
| Staley then revealed she was told that national media members at an event Thursday made comments she implied were unfair or disrespectful. They were comments Staley said she intended to address whether they won or lost Friday. |
A lot has been said that I agree with here; will recap and add.
Racism is a systemic thing imposed by those in power. So I can be prejudiced, discriminatory or biased but not racist.
Language is powerful. Some people reclaim certain terms that have been used negatively as a way of taking away the word's power to hurt or insult. Thus the use of "thug" and "gangsta" in some circles as a positive. In a different thread, I said that I will refer to myself as a dyke but never the n-word. One's context or environment make some terminology acceptable, but outside of that context, it can be misinterpreted or misused. The n-word is used liberally in some popular music, but if a non-black person sings/raps along and freely says it, it often becomes a problem.
"[We're] so sensitive!" Yeah. tl:dr if you don't want to read specifics - when crap like this happens multiple times in a day, week, month, whatever, it takes its toll. There is always an underlying awareness that some people might choose to respond negatively to you because you've experienced it so often. You want to believe it's not all race-related, but you never know. Maybe you're just being a jerk; maybe the other person is having a bad day; maybe you're giving off perceived bad vibes; they might not like women or perceive or know you are a lesbian (or pick your category) and it makes them mad; maybe they're just mean; or maybe they are just being a jerk. Dawn, in the spotlight, and having had many of her own experiences, responded in a way that was understood by some, rejected by others, and possibly gave others pause.
You deal everyday with microaggressions like waiting for a bus - when a car caught by a traffic light notices you and you hear a click as occupants remember that they didn't lock the door. Or someone jumps directly in front of you when you are already there perusing groceries; when you say "Excuse me?", they say, "Oh, I didn't see you there." Or a person is walking a dog that has passed many others quietly, but they get to you and the dog barks. Macroaggressions like walking down the street in a liberal Chicago suburb while chatting - not loudly - with a cousin; a cyclist rides by (on the sidewalk - against the law, btw) and says, "Get out of the way, n...s!") I could go on, but I hope you get the point. These happened to me, and some more than once.
Code words are a real thing that are understood within certain circles. In a different realm, think of the example that men are seen as assertive (positive) but women are seen as aggressive (negative - a ball-buster, a b-). Then there is the ever popular trigger phrase "you people...", which highlights differences instead of acknowledging commonalities. During a college communications class, I was the only black student. We had an exercise: someone briefly looked at a sketch of a street scene (a black man and a white man were talking on the corner, and the black guy was pointing his finger at the white guy) and had to describe it to someone who was out of the room, who then had to describe it to the next person who came in. It became an outrageous game of telephone. By the fifth recounting of the scene, the black guy had pulled a gun...
Unless you've lived it, you don't understand. Some will empathize, others will believe it's much ado about nothing, while still others are open to hearing and listening so they can glimpse life through different lenses. |
Wow, thank you for this. Also, my apologies that you deal with these aggressions every day.
_________________
Be kind, be careful, be yourself
|
|
osubeavers
Joined: 07 Jan 2017
Posts: 277
Location: West Hills, Portland, OR
Back to top |
| Posted: 04/21/23 9:16 am ::: |
Reply |
|
| Dawn is simply a poor loser. She doesn’t lose very often so she doesn’t have much practice in losing graciously. In between the lines of a basketball court I admire her accomplishments. Outside of those boundaries she’s still a work in progress.
_________________
Stepping out of a triangle into striped light - Everything is wrong, at the same time it's RIGHT!
|
|
|
|
