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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 01/25/23 9:51 am    ::: BG and Charter/Private Flights Reply Reply with quote

Unless I missed it in the article, I didn't see what the security concerns are that she would need a charter. Security from the general public? Some kind of mental health/claustrophobia issue?

Quote:
Griner will need to fly privately due to security concerns, according to reports.


Quote:
Engelbert has estimated that chartering the entire season for all 12 teams would cost more than $20 million.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2023/01/25/brittney-griner-needs-charter-wnba-doesnt-allow-it-now-what/11110426002/



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shontay33



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PostPosted: 01/25/23 3:42 pm    ::: Re: BG and Charter/Private Flights Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
Unless I missed it in the article, I didn't see what the security concerns are that she would need a charter. Security from the general public? Some kind of mental health/claustrophobia issue?

Quote:
Griner will need to fly privately due to security concerns, according to reports.


Quote:
Engelbert has estimated that chartering the entire season for all 12 teams would cost more than $20 million.


https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/2023/01/25/brittney-griner-needs-charter-wnba-doesnt-allow-it-now-what/11110426002/


You didn’t miss anything. I think BG’s situation was used to discuss the main issue which is to charter and not to charter. It’s sad that the writer would use her situation to “make a point “. That took away from Stewie actually bringing light to the issue and actually coming up with a solution.


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PostPosted: 01/25/23 10:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

what solution did Stewart come up with?



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PostPosted: 01/25/23 11:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
what solution did Stewart come up with?


Exactly the right question. I've read nothing on this board or anywhere else that Stewart has come up with a "solution" or even a detailed and plausible option. If I've missed something important, I'd certainly appreciate seeing it posted here.



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PostPosted: 01/26/23 3:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Brit is probably getting threats from crazy people. I would hope that most players and the league would want an accommodation for her. Keep it fair and don’t include the rest of the team - but Brit has been through enough so the league should give her what she needs.



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Last edited by mercfan3 on 01/26/23 5:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 01/26/23 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Brit is probably getting threats from crazy people. I would hope that most players and the league would want an accommodation for her. Keep it fair and don’t include the rest of the team - but Brit has been through enough to not give her what she needs.


+1



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shontay33



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PostPosted: 01/26/23 7:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
what solution did Stewart come up with?

If you read her tweet, she stated that she would be willing to contribute some of the money she receives through endorsements and sponsorships to help wi some of the cost. There were a couple of NBA players who agreed to this as well.


shontay33



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PostPosted: 01/26/23 7:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Brit is probably getting threats from crazy people. I would hope that most players and the league would want an accommodation for her. Keep it fair and don’t include the rest of the team - but Brit has been through enough so the league should give her what she needs.

Then the Mercury may have to provide additional security when traveling. The league already shut down charters claiming they would give certain teams a competitive advantage.


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PostPosted: 01/26/23 7:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

imo there’s no realistic long-term solution without the aid of a sponsorship from a private air company and/or agreed-upon contributions from each ownership group

it should also go without saying that any solution used that is strictly short-term – ie charters until Griner’s general safety is deems on the same level as any other player, or some other excuse for the sake of getting charters – ain’t gonna end well with the players

can’t have everyone fly charter one year and expect there not to be hard feelings about going back to flying commercial the next



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 01/26/23 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

shontay33 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
what solution did Stewart come up with?

If you read her tweet, she stated that she would be willing to contribute some of the money she receives through endorsements and sponsorships to help wi some of the cost. There were a couple of NBA players who agreed to this as well.


That's hardly a "solution." In my view, it's a lovely gesture. Would these donations add up to the costs that would be incurred? Unless there are serious numbers and firm commitments, all this has limited meaning.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 01/26/23 10:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

shontay33 wrote:
Queenie wrote:
what solution did Stewart come up with?

If you read her tweet, she stated that she would be willing to contribute some of the money she receives through endorsements and sponsorships to help wi some of the cost. There were a couple of NBA players who agreed to this as well.


"some" of the money she receives

When the price tag is $20 million per year at a minimum, "some" of what is less than $20 million isn't worth a bucket of warm piss. If she comes back with an actual plan to get it paid for, whether that's by contributions to a general fund by players/the WNBPA as an entity/interested parties such as supportive NBA players, team owners, or sponsors, or by making arrangements with an airline or a chartering company, or something else, then maybe I'll believe this is something more than her getting on her high horse and making demands.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 01/27/23 5:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
imo there’s no realistic long-term solution without the aid of a sponsorship from a private air company and/or agreed-upon contributions from each ownership group

it should also go without saying that any solution used that is strictly short-term – ie charters until Griner’s general safety is deems on the same level as any other player, or some other excuse for the sake of getting charters – ain’t gonna end well with the players

can’t have everyone fly charter one year and expect there not to be hard feelings about going back to flying commercial the next


Sponsorship will be easier to come by when NBA players are stepping up by supporting this idea. Its gets the right attention and probably a lot more then WNBA players supporting the idea.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 01/27/23 1:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Sponsorship will be easier to come by when NBA players are stepping up by supporting this idea. Its gets the right attention and probably a lot more then WNBA players supporting the idea.

Still gotta see a company or two take the lead and make that commitment. Attention doesn’t always lead to action. I’m not really sure what would be in it for the sponsors themselves.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 01/27/23 2:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
Sponsorship will be easier to come by when NBA players are stepping up by supporting this idea. Its gets the right attention and probably a lot more then WNBA players supporting the idea.

Still gotta see a company or two take the lead and make that commitment. Attention doesn’t always lead to action. I’m not really sure what would be in it for the sponsors themselves.

The usual stuff: publicity, good PR, yadda yadda yadda. And at this point, with it becoming such a topic of discussion, maybe they get a title sponsor and an airline involved. Like, every time a team boards their plane there are twets and Instagram posts saying "Aces travelling in style to their next stop thanks to their Coca Cola United charter flight!" But it's still a whole lot of money.

Last I heard (which was admittedly quite a while ago now), it was basically what Engelbert says here - https://twitter.com/ramonashelburne/status/1617334278727294979 . It's a bit like all these ownership groups that pop up - everyone's all excited about the concept, then they hear the money involved and run the numbers, and everything goes awkwardly quiet.

The league can definitely be said to cling to the fairness/balance stuff a bit too much at times, and there's an argument they should loosen it. If players can be attracted by better training facilities and stuff like that then maybe teams should be able to transport the players however they want to, and if you can't keep up then that's just another thing players can use to pick between teams in free agency. You're drawing the line somewhere. The question is how many owners would jump ship if the competitive balance was tilted like that, forcing them to either equal what the billionaires are doing with their teams, or live with the roster consequences of not equalling it. And if those owners did walk away from the league, are there enough people waiting in the wings who'd want to take over (and do they have the money to compete)?

It's hard to know whether the league is stuck in an out-dated mindset, or if they're the ones with the best information on the issues above and therefore following the best plan. Decent chance it's somewhere in the middle.



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johnjohnW



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PostPosted: 01/27/23 4:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
imo there’s no realistic long-term solution without the aid of a sponsorship from a private air company and/or agreed-upon contributions from each ownership group

it should also go without saying that any solution used that is strictly short-term – ie charters until Griner’s general safety is deems on the same level as any other player, or some other excuse for the sake of getting charters – ain’t gonna end well with the players

can’t have everyone fly charter one year and expect there not to be hard feelings about going back to flying commercial the next


Sponsorship will be easier to come by when NBA players are stepping up by supporting this idea. Its gets the right attention and probably a lot more then WNBA players supporting the idea.


https://sports.yahoo.com/kareem-abdul-jabbar-congratulates-breanna-stewart-for-calling-attention-to-wnba-travel-issues-185125148.html

Does this count?

Sponsorship would be nice but aren't airlines struggling with profitability these days? Any airline that wanted to take on a sponsorship of this magnitude would be taking on a huge risk with a minimal PR return.

Also, sponsorships are fleeting. Even if, say, Frontier Air signed up for a 3 year sponsorship, there is no telling if they would renew or of a new sponsor would be found. Then we're back to coach.


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PostPosted: 01/27/23 5:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

johnjohnW wrote:
Also, sponsorships are fleeting. Even if, say, Frontier Air signed up for a 3 year sponsorship, there is no telling if they would renew or of a new sponsor would be found. Then we're back to coach.

3 years would get them both to the end of this CBA and the end of the current TV deal, though. All sorts of things could be different then.



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PostPosted: 01/27/23 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i’m just not seeing enough positive incentives for any potential sponsors besides the theoretical good PR/publicity it would create for them – the act of sponsoring itself would just be so expensive here

and there’s probably no way Engelbert, as Commissioner who works on behalf of the owners, would ever either force them to charter their teams' flights (esp. if they can’t afford it) or create a rule such that any ownership group would have to show that they meet a minimum amount of collective worth or actual wealth

call me old-fashioned, but the league’s gotta continue to grow in popularity & profitability first before we see chartered flights across the league

or we could go back to the “get rid of this league-wide rule in the next CBA, and hey, maybe get rid of salary caps or even the CBA itself along with it” argument, which isn’t gonna fully go away in times like these where exploring the pros & cons of ‘equal treatment,’ no matter which side of the aisle you’re on, is relevant discourse



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 01/27/23 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
...or create a rule such that any ownership group would have to show that they meet a minimum amount of collective worth or actual wealth

I mean, they basically try to do that. Especially since the disastrous Hilton Koch era in Houston, the league's not letting someone take over a team without a significant amount of money backing them up. The expansion fee, if it's a new team, is also inherently doing that.

It's just a matter of how high you set the bar.



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PostPosted: 01/27/23 7:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
...or create a rule such that any ownership group would have to show that they meet a minimum amount of collective worth or actual wealth

I mean, they basically try to do that. Especially since the disastrous Hilton Koch era in Houston, the league's not letting someone take over a team without a significant amount of money backing them up. The expansion fee, if it's a new team, is also inherently doing that.

It's just a matter of how high you set the bar.


right, i was definitely implying (obviously not that well lol) such a bar for owners being raised higher than just being able to comfortably own & operate a team as-is

point is, owners paying for an annual charter sure would drive up their operating costs and, while i admittedly wouldn’t know the specifics of the financials, all but nuke their chance at the franchise being able to be profitable in a given year at least with how things are now



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DTP



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PostPosted: 01/27/23 10:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I really hope that the new TV deal covers the costs for charters, raises the salary cap, and eventually allow for roster expanding to 12-13 players. I haven't read much about it recently but that deal is going to be huge for this league if done correctly.


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PostPosted: 01/27/23 11:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

DTP wrote:
I really hope that the new TV deal covers the costs for charters, raises the salary cap, and eventually allow for roster expanding to 12-13 players. I haven't read much about it recently but that deal is going to be huge for this league if done correctly.


That's what we all thought about the last deal and the one before that. The NBA let ESPN lowball them and the league got stuck in neutral for over a decade.



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Luuuc
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PostPosted: 01/28/23 12:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hey WNBPA, time to negotiate the next deal. Good news - we've got an extra $20 million in the budget for you.
Twenty. Million.
That more than doubles the total league salary payments. A pay rise of 120% sounds nice right? About time, right?

Ms. Stewart, you'll be getting half a mil now.
Ms. Burton, I don't really know who you are, but you'll be getting $150k

... or, you can opt to keep your current salaries and fly charter.

What would you like?



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PostPosted: 01/28/23 12:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Hey WNBPA, time to negotiate the next deal. Good news - we've got an extra $20 million in the budget for you.
Twenty. Million.
That more than doubles the total league salary payments. A pay rise of 120% sounds nice right? About time, right?

Ms. Stewart, you'll be getting half a mil now.
Ms. Burton, I don't really know who you are, but you'll be getting $150k

... or, you can opt to keep your current salaries and fly charter.

What would you like?


Excellent question. Thanks for posing it this way.



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GEF34



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PostPosted: 01/28/23 2:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
imo there’s no realistic long-term solution without the aid of a sponsorship from a private air company and/or agreed-upon contributions from each ownership group

it should also go without saying that any solution used that is strictly short-term – ie charters until Griner’s general safety is deems on the same level as any other player, or some other excuse for the sake of getting charters – ain’t gonna end well with the players

can’t have everyone fly charter one year and expect there not to be hard feelings about going back to flying commercial the next


Sponsorship will be easier to come by when NBA players are stepping up by supporting this idea. Its gets the right attention and probably a lot more then WNBA players supporting the idea.


I don't get why every time NBA players are at games or wearing gear people always bring it up like it's some big thing and it's going to make a difference. Don't get me wrong the support is great and the mutual respect they show the WNBA players is great, but it's not like these players are going to change people's minds about the WNBA or going to some how make the WNBA a different league. In the same regard unless NBA players are actually giving money, I don't see how some/many/all NBA players tweeting out, speaking out, etc. is going to make people want to sponsor the WNBA and these charter flights. Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Trae Young among many others have been seen at games, tweeted about the WNBA, worn jerseys and/or other WNBA gear and it hasn't brought in sponsors, so why would there be an expectation that if the NBA players start speaking out about the WNBA getting charter flights bring in sponsorships when there is no evidence there support has brought in any type of sponsorships in the past few years.


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PostPosted: 01/28/23 3:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GEF34 wrote:
I don't get why every time NBA players are at games or wearing gear people always bring it up like it's some big thing and it's going to make a difference. Don't get me wrong the support is great and the mutual respect they show the WNBA players is great, but it's not like these players are going to change people's minds about the WNBA or going to some how make the WNBA a different league. In the same regard unless NBA players are actually giving money, I don't see how some/many/all NBA players tweeting out, speaking out, etc. is going to make people want to sponsor the WNBA and these charter flights. Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Trae Young among many others have been seen at games, tweeted about the WNBA, worn jerseys and/or other WNBA gear and it hasn't brought in sponsors, so why would there be an expectation that if the NBA players start speaking out about the WNBA getting charter flights bring in sponsorships when there is no evidence there support has brought in any type of sponsorships in the past few years.


I mostly agree with you, but not entirely.

Over time, I believe that all the support for the WNBA from so many NBA players WILL, to some meaningful extent, "change people's minds about the WNBA." Younger generations will grow up routinely seeing this in a way that people on this board who are middle-aged or older surely didn't.

But I don't think NBA players speaking out about the WNBA deserving charter flights will bring in sponsorships or have any serious impact on the financial realities of the WNBA.



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Last edited by Bob Lamm on 01/28/23 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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