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ArtBest23
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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 Posted: 12/04/22 7:45 pm ::: |
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So what are the pollsters and Creme going to do with this week's shakeup?
I assume the top 4 will be SCar, Stanford, Indiana, OhSt.
After that?
Do they jump VaTech all the way up to 5? They're the only other top 10 team without a loss, and the voters consistently overvalue a win over 4-5 Tenn. So I wouldn't, but it won't surprise me if the voters do.
North Carolina? Only one loss, and a win over Iowa State, but their loss to IU was pretty ugly.
Iowa St only has the loss to UNC, but no impressive wins, and they almost have to be placed behind UNC.
Iowa lost twice, and their "good loss" to UConn lost some of its luster today, so they'll probably drop.
LSU isn't impressing anyone beating cupcakes.
NCSt will probably move up after beating WVU and Iowa, but again, their big loss to UConn looks slighly less excusable today.
Then we have ND and UConn. I assume ND will (and certainly should) be ahead of UConn. Both have one loss, and today's win by ND over UConn really wasn't close. And ND lost to Maryland on a buzzer-beater. But then MD had a bad loss to Nebraska today.
So if it was me, (and admitting my own bias) I think the top 10 should, in order, be SCar, Stanford IU, OhSt, ND, UConn, VaTech, UNC, Iowa St, NCSt, but it's very possible VaTech might jump to 5 rather than 7 with ND and UConn being 6 and 7 instead of 5 and 6.
Thoughts?
Do any of the voters actually watch any games?
And it would be typical BS if Geno's Girls end up #5, but it won't surprise me.
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singinerd54
Joined: 18 Feb 2009
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| Posted: 12/04/22 10:03 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
So if it was me, (and admitting my own bias) I think the top 10 should, in order, be SCar, Stanford, IU, OhSt, ND, UConn, VaTech, UNC, Iowa St, NCSt, but it's very possible VaTech might jump to 5 rather than 7 with ND and UConn being 6 and 7 instead of 5 and 6.
Thoughts?
Do any of the voters actually watch any games? |
Don't ask questions you already know the answer to! 
Your order looks about right (as in what it should be, which we know is different than what it will be). Ohio State is above Indiana in the AP poll, and I would imagine that will stay (i.e., Ohio State will be 3 and Indiana will be 4). I think that's a toss up and am fine with either order. Indiana has the better win between the two in beating UNC without Berger.
Virginia Tech has beaten nobody of consequence, and while their win today was on the road, Tennessee was without their leading scoring and they only won by 3. I'm tempted to knock them down some, but am confident the pollsters won't do that. I don't think they should be above Notre Dame or UConn.
UNC, Iowa State, and NC State make sense as 8-10 (or anywhere 7-10, in this order, depending on where you put Virginia Tech).
In no particular order, Michigan, LSU, Iowa, Oregon, Arizona, UCLA, and Utah are 11-17 for me.
Creighton, Baylor, Villanova are 18-20, in that order, and we'll stop there, because no one else seems to be able to hold their shit together
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ridor
Joined: 18 Oct 2005
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Location: Frederick, Maryland
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| Posted: 12/05/22 12:30 pm ::: |
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So far, Coach Mox of Virginia may have scheduled a "cupcake schedule" BUT she's teaching. That's all she has been doing. Teaching. Why DO you think in 10 games, the team already had 11 players out of 11 who scored in double figures? She's teaching in order to bolster and empower the players.
That's why they are 10-0, 1-0 ACC. I expect them to hit 13-0, 1-0 before the formidable game at Duke.
Still, Coach Mox is amazing. She and her team just caused the "Mauna Loa" in Charlottesville.
So happy for the team. They should be ranked in Top 25 this week.
Hey, Tina Thompson, so glad you were so *fired*, you stink as any coach.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 12/05/22 2:28 pm ::: |
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| ridor wrote: |
So happy for the team. They should be ranked in Top 25 this week.
Hey, Tina Thompson, so glad you were so *fired*, you stink as any coach. |
Nope. They got 8 votes this week which makes them 33rd in the "extended" poll, which among the ACC teams is ahead of Duke and FSU but behind Miami and Louisville and the 4 top 10 teams.
We can all agree that Thompson was a huge blunder and disaster, but some of us are withholding judgement until they see more. Hard to tell whether the improvement is coaching, influx of transfer talent trained elsewhere, schedule, or a combination, but the wins over Wake and PSU looked good and the enthusiasm from the team and fans is great to see.
Conference play is coming up and I expect them to surprise someone along the way.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 12/05/22 2:38 pm ::: |
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Well I pretty much nailed the top 10; IU and OhSt were a toss up at 4 and 3. They got it right with ND, UConn, vaTech, UNC at 5, 6, 7, 8. The voters have NCSt slightly higher than I expected, tied with UNC and ahead of Iowa St rather than right behind them, but only 8 votes seperate UNC, NCSt and Iowa St.
Texas and L'Ville are out of the top 25 and Tenn didn't get a single vote. Time for Lobo and company to stop calling beating them a marquee win.
Iowa dropped an excessive 6 spots.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 12/05/22 3:19 pm ::: |
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| I'm curious....I see little discussion or analysis of the Coaches' poll. Does anyone here think it has any more (or less?) validity than the AP poll?
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 12/06/22 11:41 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| I'm curious....I see little discussion or analysis of the Coaches' poll. Does anyone here think it has any more (or less?) validity than the AP poll? |
I don't think it has any more intrinsic validity. WCBB coaches are busy people, and I doubt many watch games other than tapes of upcoming opponents. Indeed, some coaches admit they delegate their votes to some junior person in the AD's office.
Pilight would have data on how the two polls have fared in the NCAA tournament over the years. |
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pilight
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| Posted: 12/06/22 1:07 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
| Pilight would have data on how the two polls have fared in the NCAA tournament over the years. |
They're normally very closely aligned by season end. The AP has done slightly better when there's a difference.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 12/06/22 9:04 pm ::: |
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| I had to laugh at OrSU getting 6 votes. So far they really look terrible.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 12/07/22 12:24 pm ::: |
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ESPN with a new article on how Azzi fudds injury impacts ALL of WCBB and the player of the year race now being back to Clark vs Boston like it was a year ago. My question is why is ESPN discounting or not including Olivia Miles in this race ? She's clearly led Notre dame to where they are right now and her numbers are out of this world so far this season . Yet no one is giving her POY recommendations still .
PTS REB AST FG %
16.4 7.1 6.4 51.6
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 12/07/22 12:33 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
ESPN with a new article on how Azzi fudds injury impacts ALL of WCBB and the player of the year race now being back to Clark vs Boston like it was a year ago. My question is why is ESPN discounting or not including Olivia Miles in this race ? She's clearly led Notre dame to where they are right now and her numbers are out of this world so far this season . Yet no one is giving her POY recommendations still .
PTS REB AST FG %
16.4 7.1 6.4 51.6 |
Really, ESPN? Get a grip.
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Howee
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 12/07/22 8:58 pm ::: |
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I guess it's in part a sign of increasing parity in WCBB ( which is a good thing) and probably even more so an artifact of free agency and transfer insanity ( not such a good thing) but I don't recall off-hand a year in which the preseason top ten was as far off the mark as this season. After a couple of weeks, it now looks like Texas, Tenn, L'Ville, and Iowa St should never have been near the top ten and were placed there based on name recognition, on last year, and on over-valuing transfers.
But of course ESPN and the rest of the media keep trying to ignore how badly they missed the mark and continue to pretend their predictions were meaningful.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 12/07/22 9:56 pm ::: |
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| The season is still young and some people are acting like it's already March. ~SMDH~
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/08/22 12:03 am ::: |
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It's still early. Louisville fans might recall 2015-16 when the Cards were ranked #8 in the preseason, started badly and were unranked by the end of November, then recovered and climbed back to #8 by season end.
Looking back I see two seasons in which half the preseason top 10 ended the season ranked outside the top 10:
1992-93
Maryland went from #4 to #11
Western Kentucky went from #5 to #13
SFA went from #8 to #12
USC went from #9 to #15
Texas went from #10 to #16
1993-94
Vanderbilt went from #2 to #12
Iowa went from #3 to #13
Auburn went from #5 to unranked
Stanford went from #6 to #11
Ohio State went from #8 to unranked
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 12/08/22 3:59 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| The season is still young and some people are acting like it's already March. ~SMDH~ |
Everything alright with you over there summertime? Sincerely asking , im not use to you having such aggressive natured posts as of lately .
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 12/08/22 4:15 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| The season is still young and some people are acting like it's already March. ~SMDH~ |
Everything alright with you over there summertime? Sincerely asking , im not use to you having such aggressive natured posts as of lately . |
I'm fine, just getting too old to suffer fools gladly I guess.
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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/08/22 5:52 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| The season is still young and some people are acting like it's already March. ~SMDH~ |
Everything alright with you over there summertime? Sincerely asking , im not use to you having such aggressive natured posts as of lately . |
Amen. Over the top.
It is historic in our league for so many teams to start in the top 10 and fall completely out of the Top 25. Tennessee and Texas have had injury issues which have dramatically affected the programs to start the season. Don't think L'ville & others have similar explanations. And, of course, all of them have a long conference season to climb back up the rankings.
But it is absolutely worth noting and discussing that this huge drop has happened to so many teams to start the season. Perhaps that's why many pre-season rankings come with the proviso "way too early." You can bet if it happened on the men's side, it would be a lead off story on Sports Center.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 12/08/22 8:13 pm ::: |
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If anyone actually read what I wrote instead of going off half cocked, you'd notice my post related ONLY to the horrible job the prognosticators did in preparing a pre-season poll, and nothing at all about where teams might be in February or season end.
The way a team gets back into things is by doing what 2015-16 Louisville did; follow up their 1-4 start by going 23-2 the rest of the regular season.
Do I think Tenn has a shred of a chance of doing that? Have you watched them play? Get serious. Might Louisville? Doubtful, but they might conceivably claw back to the top 25. Might Iowa State or Texas get back into the top 10? Yeah, I suppose possibly. Unlikely, especially for Texas, but possible. They could both rack up lots of wins; the Big12 doesn't look like a killer conference this year.
But the point was that none of the four belonged in the top 10 in the pre season poll, and don't today. I said the poll was far off the mark for that point in time. They were overrated for the reasons I mentioned, among others, and I don't recall a year in which there were four teams that blatantly undeserving in the initial top 10. One or two, no big shock. But ## 2, 5, 7 and 8?
BTW, 1993 Auburn and Ohio St, the other two teams cited by Pilight for going from top 10 to unranked, didn't accomplish that until February. It was a slow deterioration in ranking. Neither fell entirely off the poll in only four weeks like Tenn, Texas and Louisville have done.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 12/10/22 8:17 am ::: |
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| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| But it is absolutely worth noting and discussing that this huge drop has happened to so many teams to start the season. Perhaps that's why many pre-season rankings come with the proviso "way too early." You can bet if it happened on the men's side, it would be a lead off story on Sports Center. |
On the men's side seven of the preseason top 10 are currently out of the top 10, including the preseason #1 being out of the top 25. It has not been the lead story on Sports Center.
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
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| Posted: 12/10/22 12:14 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| But it is absolutely worth noting and discussing that this huge drop has happened to so many teams to start the season. Perhaps that's why many pre-season rankings come with the proviso "way too early." You can bet if it happened on the men's side, it would be a lead off story on Sports Center. |
On the men's side seven of the preseason top 10 are currently out of the top 10, including the preseason #1 being out of the top 25. It has not been the lead story on Sports Center. |
Yeah, so where's the outrage over there? /s
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 12/10/22 1:25 pm ::: |
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| summertime blues wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| But it is absolutely worth noting and discussing that this huge drop has happened to so many teams to start the season. Perhaps that's why many pre-season rankings come with the proviso "way too early." You can bet if it happened on the men's side, it would be a lead off story on Sports Center. |
On the men's side seven of the preseason top 10 are currently out of the top 10, including the preseason #1 being out of the top 25. It has not been the lead story on Sports Center. |
Yeah, so where's the outrage over there? /s |
Actually it's been covered extensively.
By the way, even as much chaos as there has been (and the men’s is almost always far more volatile than the women’s) there is still only ONE preseason top 10 team, UNC, that has dropped out of the top 25, rather than THREE on the women’s side, and much has been written and reported about UNC's performance. It actually HAS been the lead story on Sportcenter.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/12/22 1:03 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| summertime blues wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| readyAIMfire53 wrote: |
| But it is absolutely worth noting and discussing that this huge drop has happened to so many teams to start the season. Perhaps that's why many pre-season rankings come with the proviso "way too early." You can bet if it happened on the men's side, it would be a lead off story on Sports Center. |
On the men's side seven of the preseason top 10 are currently out of the top 10, including the preseason #1 being out of the top 25. It has not been the lead story on Sports Center. |
Yeah, so where's the outrage over there? /s |
Actually it's been covered extensively.
By the way, even as much chaos as there has been (and the men’s is almost always far more volatile than the women’s) there is still only ONE preseason top 10 team, UNC, that has dropped out of the top 25, rather than THREE on the women’s side, and much has been written and reported about UNC's performance. It actually HAS been the lead story on Sportcenter.
But don't let facts get in the way of a good rant. |
Thank you for bringing reality back to this thread! As a Duke fan, you know I'm celebrating the UNC Cheater Men's fall out of T25. And, yes, even though only one men's team has fallen completely out of the T25, it has, indeed, been a lead story (much to my delight!). Nothing could be finer that giving the Cheaters their just desserts! Losing to them at last year's FF made me physically ill. It remains a travesty that the NCAA did not issue much more severe consequences to years of fake classes at UNC to keep their athletes on the floor, field and pitch.
Again, having THREE pre season top 10 teams fall completely out of the T25 is quite newsworthy, no matter the reason. UConn has been decimated by multiple injuries, yet remains in the top 10.
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