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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6800
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Posted: 05/22/22 1:25 pm ::: |
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I agree with everything root said
The flip side glass half full spin on this season is Howard, Laney and Whitcomb are all under performing at such a rate it is possible all three will have upswings in their 2022 seasons and those up swing will be enough to get some wins, will allow Sabrina to shine as a star and recalibrate what is expected from role players like Dolson, Allen, Onyenwere and others. As bad as we have looked it isn’t hard to see where improvements can made be and our results will get better.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 05/22/22 3:30 pm ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
The flip side glass half full spin on this season is Howard, Laney and Whitcomb are all under performing at such a rate it is possible all three will have upswings in their 2022 seasons and those up swing will be enough to get some wins, will allow Sabrina to shine as a star and recalibrate what is expected from role players like Dolson, Allen, Onyenwere and others. As bad as we have looked it isn’t hard to see where improvements can made be and our results will get better. |
I fully agree with J-Spoon. It's possible that New York will continue to play terribly. But Howard, Laney, Whitcomb--and, I'd add, Dolson--have all played far better in this league than we've seen. Including in 2021. I'm upset at what I've seen so far... but still hopeful.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 05/22/22 4:17 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
Always useful to have chips to make deals with, even if a gained second-rounder might be unlikely to make the team if it was actually used on a player. And you never know what might open up, anyway. This time last year no one would've expected the Liberty would be making a mid-draft trade to add a mid-second-round post who'd actually be needed in the rotation.
Which is basically just to say - if you can get something for a player in a trade rather than cutting them, you do it. I wouldn't trade Onyenwere just to do it, but if they were thinking about cutting her anyway you make the phone calls. |
I don't think anyone disagrees. I never suggested that 2nd Round picks aren't worth having. My only point is that New York doesn't have one next year, but in their case it's unlikely to matter. This franchise already has surplus assets if they simply want to turn over the roster again.
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 1126 Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: 05/22/22 4:25 pm ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
J-Spoon wrote: |
The flip side glass half full spin on this season is Howard, Laney and Whitcomb are all under performing at such a rate it is possible all three will have upswings in their 2022 seasons and those up swing will be enough to get some wins, will allow Sabrina to shine as a star and recalibrate what is expected from role players like Dolson, Allen, Onyenwere and others. As bad as we have looked it isn’t hard to see where improvements can made be and our results will get better. |
I fully agree with J-Spoon. It's possible that New York will continue to play terribly. But Howard, Laney, Whitcomb--and, I'd add, Dolson--have all played far better in this league than we've seen. Including in 2021. I'm upset at what I've seen so far... but still hopeful. |
I don't think a single player on the team is measuring up to the expectations most of us had.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 05/22/22 5:51 pm ::: |
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My fear is that right now we are playing so poorly, it’s going to take a lot to improve. The stats just scream awful in every area. Points off turnovers-last by a lot. Rebound percentage-last and very poor. Point differential-last by a lot. Net rating-last by a lot. Defensive rating-10th I think. Or 9th. I forget. Offense rating-last.
Yes, players are underperforming. But for this to be fixed, an awful lot has to be corrected. Even if Dangerfield helps the offense and turnovers, what’s fixing everything else? Thankfully not every team is Connecticut and Chicago, so that’s a potential start. Most other teams don’t have players to defend us as strongly as those teams do.
I’m still not sure it’s going to be enough. This isn’t an ordinary 1-4. Minnesota is 1-6 and just about all their stats are better than ours. And not just by a little either.
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NYSports56
Joined: 03 Jul 2018 Posts: 1126 Location: New Jersey, USA
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Posted: 05/22/22 6:21 pm ::: |
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It's only 5 games, 3 of them against the best in the league. Unless Sandy Brondello is a terrible coach, at least some of our players will begin to approach their career numbers, or at least reasonably close if they are the older players. We seriously have nowhere to go up after the Tuesday Turnover Trainwreck, and I don't think we're just going to stay on the bottom.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 05/23/22 5:50 pm ::: |
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Add Cubaj and Laney to the group out with injury tomorrow. Cubaj is concussion protocol. Laney is knee. Laney was bothered by the knee in training camp. Makes one wonder if she has not been 100% all season.
Can’t catch a break right now. Dangerfield should play some. Assuming Onyenwere will start at the 3. Or maybe Bec, but she looked very rusty last week.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18031 Location: Queens
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Posted: 05/23/22 7:08 pm ::: |
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also on general principles someone should sign Hannah at any available possibility
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 05/23/22 8:19 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
Add Cubaj and Laney to the group out with injury tomorrow. Cubaj is concussion protocol. Laney is knee. Laney was bothered by the knee in training camp. Makes one wonder if she has not been 100% all season.
Can’t catch a break right now. Dangerfield should play some. Assuming Onyenwere will start at the 3. Or maybe Bec, but she looked very rusty last week. |
One thing I've felt about Laney's play on the Liberty, not just this season, is that her troublesome times are mainly when she tries to do too much. Playing with an injury could certainly factor into that.
So, if I've got this right, Cubaj AND Laney AND Willoughby AND Han AND Richards are all out at the moment. If that's correct, that means that five of our original intended 12-player roster are out. Wow! This isn't a total excuse for some of the team's dreadful play so far, but it's certainly a factor.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009 Posts: 6800
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Posted: 05/23/22 8:22 pm ::: |
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lets do this tomorrow just for fun what do we have to lose
Dangerfield/Whitcomb
Ionescu/AD
Allen/Onyenwere
Howard/(Onyenwere)
Han/Dolson
wait Han is Out?
Do we get another hardship player?
Sjerven, IMS, Cannon, Cox, Unique, McCall?
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 05/23/22 8:45 pm ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
lets do this tomorrow just for fun what do we have to lose
Dangerfield/Whitcomb
Ionescu/AD
Allen/Onyenwere
Howard/(Onyenwere)
Han/Dolson
wait Han is Out?
Do we get another hardship player?
Sjerven, IMS, Cannon, Cox, Unique, McCall? |
I'm not sure about Han. I had the impression she was out. Can someone clarify that? Sorry if I got that wrong.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24356 Location: London
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Posted: 05/23/22 9:09 pm ::: |
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No idea how accurate, but the tweet I saw from one reporter said nine available. So that would be Willoughby and Richards known out, plus Cubaj and Laney. Takes them down to 8 and then up to nine when you add Dangerfield. So that would indicate Han's available. |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 05/23/22 9:46 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
No idea how accurate, but the tweet I saw from one reporter said nine available. So that would be Willoughby and Richards known out, plus Cubaj and Laney. Takes them down to 8 and then up to nine when you add Dangerfield. So that would indicate Han's available. |
Thanks, Richyyy.
But consider this. Four likely rotation players out (Laney, Willoughby, Richards, Cubaj). Nine in uniform. That includes Dangerfield, who's just arrived; Allen, who's played in only one game this season; Han, who's only played in two games; and AD, who's only played limited minutes.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 05/23/22 10:04 pm ::: |
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Doesn’t look promising. At least Dangerfield and Han are very likely to see significant minutes. AD might too.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 05/24/22 1:39 pm ::: |
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For what it's worth, the Liberty posted a video that shows 11 players making the trip to Minnesota. Cubaj and Richards are included, Laney and Willoughby are not.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005 Posts: 22474 Location: NJ
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 05/25/22 9:39 am ::: |
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I was really puzzled by Sandy Brondello's decision to stay with Sami Whitcomb last night after Michaela Onyenwere had had such a good stretch. I'm definitely a Sami fan, but she's been off to a rough start this season and simply couldn't hit a shot last night. In addition, given that Willoughby's out for perhaps five more weeks and the status of Richards is uncertain, it seems the right time to take a long look at Onyenwere.
Great to see Han making such a valuable contribution on both ends of the floor. I'd hoped all along to see Han and Johannes back on the team this year. Still hoping Johannes returns in June.
For me, last night underscored how important Laney is on this team. With her on the court contributing, it would have been a victory.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 05/25/22 10:49 am ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
I was really puzzled by Sandy Brondello's decision to stay with Sami Whitcomb last night after Michaela Onyenwere had had such a good stretch. I'm definitely a Sami fan, but she's been off to a rough start this season and simply couldn't hit a shot last night. |
I thought that strange too. If not Onyenwere, then Dangermouse. It's not like she had no choices. Maybe she has the theory that if you shoot enough of them finally one will go in, but after a player is 0-6, I think my patience would wear thin. She did, however get 9 assists! So maybe just tell her to dial back on the shooting. Basically every shot was like a turnover. It was painful.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 05/27/22 12:02 am ::: |
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The unenviable choices for the New York Liberty over AD
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AD has had to retrain their brain since being cleared for on court activity in November. During training camp, AD would struggle with comprehension and memory during practice. Brondello would give a bunch of sequential directions including when to dribble and when to pass followed by when to come off a down screen. AD had difficulty processing that sequence.
“COVID has really thrown everything off so now I have to retrain my brain to do everything,” they said. “It’s kind of like I tell people how you’re like you’re paralyzed and you’re trying to learn how to walk again. That’s kind of how it is now. And it’s learning how to think, something so simple as thinking and doing something while you’re thinking.” |
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When the Liberty returned home to face the Fever on May 13, AD confirmed that they had experienced a COVID flare up, something that has been prevalent in their life during their battle with long COVID. They began to feel ill the night before Wednesday’s game in Chicago. The next morning they felt better, but then the symptoms returned as the day progressed. “I started feeling you know pretty dizzy and nauseous, sweats and chills,” they said.
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https://www.thenexthoops.com/features/the-unenviable-choices-for-the-new-york-liberty-over-ad/
_________________ You can always do something else.
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Iluvacc
Joined: 11 Jun 2005 Posts: 4167
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Posted: 05/27/22 11:13 am ::: |
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root_thing wrote: |
The unenviable choices for the New York Liberty over AD
Quote: |
AD has had to retrain their brain since being cleared for on court activity in November. During training camp, AD would struggle with comprehension and memory during practice. Brondello would give a bunch of sequential directions including when to dribble and when to pass followed by when to come off a down screen. AD had difficulty processing that sequence.
“COVID has really thrown everything off so now I have to retrain my brain to do everything,” they said. “It’s kind of like I tell people how you’re like you’re paralyzed and you’re trying to learn how to walk again. That’s kind of how it is now. And it’s learning how to think, something so simple as thinking and doing something while you’re thinking.” |
Quote: |
When the Liberty returned home to face the Fever on May 13, AD confirmed that they had experienced a COVID flare up, something that has been prevalent in their life during their battle with long COVID. They began to feel ill the night before Wednesday’s game in Chicago. The next morning they felt better, but then the symptoms returned as the day progressed. “I started feeling you know pretty dizzy and nauseous, sweats and chills,” they said.
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https://www.thenexthoops.com/features/the-unenviable-choices-for-the-new-york-liberty-over-ad/ |
Sorry to hear they're still going through this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall them being unvaccinated. I wonder if that changed? I hope so if that's the case.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 05/27/22 11:35 am ::: |
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THe use of they/them works when it is about AD alone, but when she starts talking about the team as a whole, or about AD working in the context of the team, I find myself stumbling over the pronouns - like ok, is that they/them about AD or about the team. We as a society need to come up with a singular pronoun to fit those who don't want to use he/she. I have a friend who also uses they/them and we have joked about using 'it' but of course it generally denotes an object. But they/them makes it feel like multiple personalities.
And in general this points to a need to have an injured reserve spot for someone like this. They could still practice with the team but not be expected to perform at the level of a wnba player and not count as a roster spot or on the salary cap.
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readyAIMfire53
Joined: 20 Nov 2004 Posts: 7373 Location: Durham, NC
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Posted: 05/27/22 12:01 pm ::: |
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Iluvacc wrote: |
root_thing wrote: |
The unenviable choices for the New York Liberty over AD
Quote: |
AD has had to retrain their brain since being cleared for on court activity in November. During training camp, AD would struggle with comprehension and memory during practice. Brondello would give a bunch of sequential directions including when to dribble and when to pass followed by when to come off a down screen. AD had difficulty processing that sequence.
“COVID has really thrown everything off so now I have to retrain my brain to do everything,” they said. “It’s kind of like I tell people how you’re like you’re paralyzed and you’re trying to learn how to walk again. That’s kind of how it is now. And it’s learning how to think, something so simple as thinking and doing something while you’re thinking.” |
Quote: |
When the Liberty returned home to face the Fever on May 13, AD confirmed that they had experienced a COVID flare up, something that has been prevalent in their life during their battle with long COVID. They began to feel ill the night before Wednesday’s game in Chicago. The next morning they felt better, but then the symptoms returned as the day progressed. “I started feeling you know pretty dizzy and nauseous, sweats and chills,” they said.
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https://www.thenexthoops.com/features/the-unenviable-choices-for-the-new-york-liberty-over-ad/ |
Sorry to hear they're still going through this. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall them being unvaccinated. I wonder if that changed? I hope so if that's the case. |
I had long Covid until my first booster. I had a nice bump after the first two vaccines, but the first booster totally alleviated the symptoms. Still unknown what causes long Covid (autoimmune response to the virus or virus remaining and continuing to wreak havoc) but, for me, the vaccine finally stopped long Covid.
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~rAf
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 05/27/22 12:26 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
THe use of they/them works when it is about AD alone, but when she starts talking about the team as a whole, or about AD working in the context of the team, I find myself stumbling over the pronouns - like ok, is that they/them about AD or about the team. We as a society need to come up with a singular pronoun to fit those who don't want to use he/she. I have a friend who also uses they/them and we have joked about using 'it' but of course it generally denotes an object. But they/them makes it feel like multiple personalities. |
I completely agree. If the nonbinary community wants to come up with their own pronouns, I would be very happy to use them. However, commandeering commonly used pronouns that are primarily recognized as plural only confuses the language. After all, the purpose of language is to communicate. Taking these plural pronouns and adding an extra nonplural meaning reduces clarity. As someone who tutors remedial reading to young children, I'm particularly sensitive to how usage can be explained. American English is already an amalgam of multiple languages, and a lot of it is simply incongruous. Plural pronouns are one part of the language that actually makes sense. So, it would be a step backward to make it more complicated.
Again, out of respect for the nonbinary community, I'd be more than willing to use any new pronouns they come up with. However, even here you have an uphill battle. The New York Times has had multiple articles about how the word Latinx isn't widely accepted in the Hispanic community. That includes a front page story tying it to changes in political affiliations.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 05/27/22 12:35 pm ::: |
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Liberty press conference from Tuesday's game: Brondello followed by Allen & Howard.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/89J-UD1wtWM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Brondello with positive things to say about Han and her potential. Maybe Sandy is more inclined now to use Han, although she also admits that everyone has to play because of injuries.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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