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tfan



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PostPosted: 02/02/22 10:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Denmark scraps all COVID laws

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/land-covid-now-no-worse-cold/

Quote:
As far as community health is concerned, Covid is now on a par with the common cold.


That sentiment is probably from Tyra Grove Krause, director of infection preparedness at Denmark’s infectious diseases agency SSI, although the author wasn’t clear on that. As much as we would like it to be true, I don't think global health authorities would agree with that. If she tweeted that it would probably get taken down. Although there doesn't appear to be any data on "deaths from the common cold". In one answer I found it was stated that if the cold viruses go from the upper respiratory track to the lower and become more serious the condition gets renamed. Including to pneumonia.


Shades



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PostPosted: 02/07/22 12:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Yf-G6TUv3ck" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Shades



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PostPosted: 02/16/22 7:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In warning to U.S., COVID rates soar after Denmark lifts all restrictions
https://news.yahoo.com/in-warning-to-us-covid-rates-soar-after-denmark-lifts-all-restrictions-183342093.html

Quote:
Since then, however, Denmark has continued to record more COVID-19 cases per capita than nearly anywhere else in the world, and both COVID hospitalizations and deaths have shot up by about a third.

“Not looking good in Denmark,” Dr. Eric Topol, founder and director of the Scripps Translational Institute, tweeted Sunday, sharing several charts that terminated in near-vertical upward lines. “Deaths are now 67% of peak, with a steep ascent.”

“The world is looking to Denmark as a guide to removing all restrictions,” Topol added in a subsequent tweet, “and it seems that we've seen this movie before.” He then attached a screenshot of a news story headlined “Denmark lifts all coronavirus restrictions and celebrates ‘a whole new era’” — from Sept. 10, 2021.

Topol’s argument was clear: By ending mitigation measures prematurely, Denmark has brought a resurgence of infection, hospitalization and death upon itself — and anyone who follows in the country’s footsteps risks doing the same.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 02/17/22 12:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
In warning to U.S., COVID rates soar after Denmark lifts all restrictions


That isn't reflected in the Worldometers data. They lifted restrictions on February 1st. 7 day averages:

Feb 16 40,454
Jan 30 42,357

Deaths are increasing (7 day average is 31, up from 19 Jan 31) but they are a lagging indicator and little to no effect now from Feb 1st policy change. The positive tests were going up (soaring) prior to the lifting of restrictions, so deaths should be following that a few weeks later.

At best they should say "COVID-19 cases remain high while laggng indicator deaths soar". As is seems like the article should be labeled misinformation. But in this case, Joe Rogan didn't have a guest read it on air so all is good.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 02/17/22 10:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Shades wrote:
In warning to U.S., COVID rates soar after Denmark lifts all restrictions


That isn't reflected in the Worldometers data. They lifted restrictions on February 1st. 7 day averages:

Feb 16 40,454
Jan 30 42,357

Deaths are increasing (7 day average is 31, up from 19 Jan 31) but they are a lagging indicator and little to no effect now from Feb 1st policy change. The positive tests were going up (soaring) prior to the lifting of restrictions, so deaths should be following that a few weeks later.

At best they should say "COVID-19 cases remain high while laggng indicator deaths soar". As is seems like the article should be labeled misinformation. But in this case, Joe Rogan didn't have a guest read it on air so all is good.


You've left out the last 2 1/2 weeks of data, where cases in Denmark have risen by >50%. Wait 'til you see the lagging indicator deaths on that.

Denmark's politicians made a decision that since 81% of their country is fully vaccinated, and their hospitals weren't overwhelmed at the time, they would ignore rising cases and deaths in favor of "reopening" the country.


tfan



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PostPosted: 02/17/22 4:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:


You've left out the last 2 1/2 weeks of data, where cases in Denmark have risen by >50%. Wait 'til you see the lagging indicator deaths on that.


I am using the Denmark data at Worldometers which doesn't show any increase since February 1st. Which site shows a 50% increase?


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 02/17/22 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:


You've left out the last 2 1/2 weeks of data, where cases in Denmark have risen by >50%. Wait 'til you see the lagging indicator deaths on that.


I am using the Denmark data at Worldometers which doesn't show any increase since February 1st. Which site shows a 50% increase?


I think it was ABC. My apologies for not quoting the source.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 03/07/22 6:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I realize COVID has taken a backseat to worse news, but the official worldwide death count hit 6M today, and by looking at excess mortality numbers, it's believed the true count is 14M-24M.

https://apnews.com/article/coronavirus-pandemic-science-business-health-lifestyle-9cd511bc84955131ba00846716e02647

Only 35% of Ukrainians are fully vaccinated, and 1.7M refugees have now fled for other countries.

https://money.yahoo.com/why-ukraine-covid-19-problem-211100217.html


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 03/08/22 5:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Whoever’s responsible for that ‘official’ count and any potential disparity between it and a ‘true’ count should be included in a broad sweeping investigation into everything that has ‘officially’ gone wrong from the beginning. It's maybe not misinformation (but maybe that’s the exact word for it) but it’s certainly MISSED information and it has the effect of any other false information that’s pushed the public’s way. We make our decisions, base our opinions, and, maybe more to the point here, temper our outrage based on numbers like these. And this is exactly why, almost as hard-wired human responses, official death counts are tamped down in political localities the world over. Bigger numbers would fuel greater public outrage and more pressure for accountability. So much shit like this throughout the pandemic.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 03/15/22 9:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I still see "just like a bad flu season" or "face diaper" folks claiming that they are over-counting COVID-19 deaths in online comment sections. "You go to the hospital with a severe heart attack that kills you and if you test positive they will claim COVID-19 killed you."

I saw a scary article in the last few months that talked about "long haul" or "post COVID-19" medical issues that were severe and would send people back to the hospital and even cause death. This older one says something simlar. They probably don't get counted as COVID-19 deaths in most cases.

Study: COVID-19 Can Kill Months After Infection


Quote:
“As far as total pandemic death toll, these numbers suggest that the deaths we’re counting due to the immediate viral infection are only the tip of the iceberg,” Ziyad Al-Aly, MD, the senior author of the study and a director of the Clinical Epidemiology Center at the Veterans Affairs St. Louis Health Care System, said in a news release from Washington University in St. Louis.


The USA is coming down below the lows of this fall, although not yet down to the lows of last spring. But Germany on the other hand is hitting new highs. Maybe it took longer for Omicron to take hold.

COVID digest: Germany's situation 'critical,' Lauterbach says

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/germany/




Last edited by tfan on 03/15/22 9:53 am; edited 2 times in total
FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 03/15/22 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Case numbers are rising throughout Europe, as Omicron BA.2, which is more transmissible than original Omicron, becomes predominant at the same time European countries have relaxed their mitigation measures.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/15/health/covid-rising-uk-us/index.html


tfan



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PostPosted: 03/15/22 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I saw an article back in the Delta surge that compared it to measles, the most infectious disease. They didn't seem to think it was as infectious, but someone didn't rule it out. Then Omicron was more infectious than Delta by 50% or something and now BA.2 is even more infectious. Was curious to see if it had caught measles and found this article saying they think that it is just under measles.

Basic Reproductive Number (R0):

BA.1 8.2
BA.2 12
measles 12-16


Omicron sub-variant almost as infectious as measles, the most contagious disease on earth


toad455



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PostPosted: 04/16/22 4:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Americans appear done with COVID despite new variants and a spike in cases.

https://fortune.com/2022/04/16/next-covid-wave-probably-here-america-ignoring-everybody-sick-of-covid-delta-omicron-pi-coronavirus-fauci-johns-hopkins-ba1-ba2-variant-voc-voi-wild-type/amp/



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 04/17/22 3:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Americans appear done with COVID despite new variants and a spike in cases.

https://fortune.com/2022/04/16/next-covid-wave-probably-here-america-ignoring-everybody-sick-of-covid-delta-omicron-pi-coronavirus-fauci-johns-hopkins-ba1-ba2-variant-voc-voi-wild-type/amp/


The current surge is being undercounted in most states. Americans are just COVID-fatigued and don't want to be bothered with dealing with it any longer. States have even stopped reporting hospitalization numbers except for the critically ill.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/us-dramatically-undercounting-current-covid-19-resurgence-experts/story?id=84012793

In the meantime, we have people trying to smuggle bushmeat into the country.
https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/dulles-airport-bat-meat-scn-trnd/index.html
We've learned nothing, even with nearly a million deaths.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 05/07/22 12:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay, here’s something. From the Washington Post about a week ago.

“Vaccinated people made up 42 percent of fatalities when omicron was surging in January and February. That’s compared with September, when vaccinated people comprised “just” [my quotation marks] 23 percent of deaths during delta’s peak.”

So this piece and the information in it was published, as I said, in the Washington Post on April 29, 2022. So everyone here knew this stuff, right? This is all old news to you guys? I’m surely the only idiot who missed this information even though I subscribe to the Washington Post. No? You say?

Wow! Are you fucking kidding me? Almost half the people who died this year oF COVID were vaccinated? That’s fucking NUTS!

But it pales… PALES… in comparison with last year’s numbers. For me anyway. So last year, during delta, nearly one quarter of those who died of COVID-19 were vaccinated!

My mind is blown apart. The reason that I find last year’s number so… galling… is that we were told nothing of the sort. It was not even possible that that many vaccinated people were dying.

And yet. There were all of these slight (of hand) hints. THEY KNEW. Because they were altering their public statements to say that ‘most of the people dying and in ICUs we’re unvaccinated.’

This is just mind boggling. The vaccine doesn’t stop transmission. That we know. And it wanes so fucking quickly that four or five months out you are… how do I say this in a scientifically correct way… you are at basically the same great risk of catching COVID as an unvaccinated person, solidly at risk of getting sick from COVID, and, if you die of COVID, you can find comfort or horror in the fact that at whatever particular time you die from COVID, nearly half the other people dying with you are also vaccinated.

Now, go back to what I said in the fall and winter thread. Inside the CDC they were debating the definition of ‘fully vaccinated’ all fall and winter long.

I think we know now why they never issued a change in the designation. Because it didn’t matter that much. Not worth the blowback and not worth having to tell the American people the truth.

THESE VACCINES DO NOT PREVENT DEATH! Oh you can say they prevent death in the percentages of those who don’t die. Okay. Good for those people. But there’s a tipping point in anything and let me tell you 42% this year and almost a quarter of those dying last year is way way over the tipping point on the effectiveness of these vaccines. This is a mountain of lies and disinformation and confusion and funky guidance and the mandates and all the rest. What’s so spooky though is that this isn’t the only thing we’re talking about in this country… and we’re not talking about it at all.

Honestly. How many of you knew this?

God the power that Pfizer must have over our news media and our government.

Someone talk me off the ceiling.



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Luuuc
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PostPosted: 05/07/22 2:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Huh? Are you ok? Have you lost all sense of mathematics?
Those numbers are utterly meaningless without the context of knowing the percentage of people who are vaccinated. (and preferably also how recently they were vaccinated, and with which vaccines) You get that, right?

Last time I saw quality numbers it worked out to be approximately 15x less likely to die if you are triple vaxxed compared to being unvaxxed.
Down here it drew all the outrage from the trolls & dumbasses because "OMG 50% of people in ICU are vaxxed! 50%!!! The vax is useless!!!" Completely oblivious to the fact that something like 93% of people were vaxxed at the time, meaning that half of the ICU came from just 7% of the population while the other half came from 93%

I can just imagine the headlines if literally everyone was vaccinated.
"100% of Covid deaths this month were fully vaccinated people! We've all been duped!"

I'm guessing the protection is not as good as 15x anymore with new variants coming along all the time. Can't say I've been paying much attention to the latest studies, but if I was looking for a quick easy starting point, @EricTopol on twitter churns the stuff out daily.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 05/07/22 5:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Down here it drew all the outrage from the trolls & dumbasses because "OMG 50% of people in ICU are vaxxed! 50%!!! The vax is useless!!!" Completely oblivious to the fact that something like 93% of people were vaxxed at the time, meaning that half of the ICU came from just 7% of the population while the other half came from 93%


Okay. Let me try to reiterate this in terms that make sense to ME. Razz

Take a group/village/whatever of exactly 1000 people.
93% vaxxed = 930 people "protected
7% unvaxxed = 70 people "unprotected"
30 people end up in ICU, half vaccinated, half not.

That translates to: 15/930 vaccinated are ill vs. 15/70 unvaccinated are ill.

Those odds still speak to the value of being vaccinated. (If my analogy is mathematically correct)

I am still of the belief that these vaccines, created in a hurried fashion to remedy a virus unlike any other, could hardly be flawless. I know of numerous people that were vaccinated and DID become very ill, though none requiring hospitalization. I know of unvaccinated people whose families were VERY ill, but they themselves never contracted anything. Given Covid's highly variable effects, I'd be surprised if ANY vaccine could offer total protection.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 05/07/22 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Down here it drew all the outrage from the trolls & dumbasses because "OMG 50% of people in ICU are vaxxed! 50%!!! The vax is useless!!!" Completely oblivious to the fact that something like 93% of people were vaxxed at the time, meaning that half of the ICU came from just 7% of the population while the other half came from 93%


Okay. Let me try to reiterate this in terms that make sense to ME. Razz

Take a group/village/whatever of exactly 1000 people.
93% vaxxed = 930 people "protected
7% unvaxxed = 70 people "unprotected"
30 people end up in ICU, half vaccinated, half not.

That translates to: 15/930 vaccinated are ill vs. 15/70 unvaccinated are ill.

Those odds still speak to the value of being vaccinated. (If my analogy is mathematically correct)

I am still of the belief that these vaccines, created in a hurried fashion to remedy a virus unlike any other, could hardly be flawless. I know of numerous people that were vaccinated and DID become very ill, though none requiring hospitalization. I know of unvaccinated people whose families were VERY ill, but they themselves never contracted anything. Given Covid's highly variable effects, I'd be surprised if ANY vaccine could offer total protection.


Your math is correct, as far as it goes. It's important to stratify the two groups according to age, comorbidity, number of vaccines received, etc, so we know that we're comparing apples to apples before we conclude anything about the efficacy of vaccines.

And everyone who has followed COVID from the beginning was not optimistic that there would be a 100% effective vaccine. The goal was to produce a vaccine that would diminish the severity of illness and help prevent our healthcare system from being overwhelmed again like early 2020, and to get a vaccine that could be given annually, perhaps with the flu vaccine, instead of frequent boosters which is not a viable plan.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 05/07/22 9:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The WaPo article on April 29th from which Jammer quoted 2 sentences. I've only cut out some redundancies, and 2 graphs that I couldn't post here. The other WaPo article cited by this one is behind a paywall and I have no access. The title of the second is "COVID deaths no longer overwhelmingly among the unvaccinated as toll on elderly grows."

Quote:


A growing percentage of Americans dying from covid-19 are vaccinated

New data underscores that age – even with vaccination – is a massive risk factor for covid death

A growing share of the pandemic's victims are vaccinated, as covid-19 deaths grow among the oldest Americans.

While many worried the pandemic's toll would shift toward younger people, the opposite actually occurred as the delta variant subsided and omicron surged.

There was a rise in deaths concentrated among the elderly, who have consistently been among the groups most vulnerable to the virus throughout the pandemic. While the vast majority of seniors are vaccinated, the shots’ potency wanes over time — particularly in older age groups.

That’s according to a story out this morning from our colleagues Fenit Nirappil and Dan Keating. The pair crunched nationwide data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and here’s what they found:
•Vaccinated people made up 42 percent of fatalities when the omicron variant was surging in January and February.
•That’s compared with September, when vaccinated people comprised just 23 percent of deaths during delta’s peak.
•The bulk of vaccinated deaths were concentrated in people who hadn’t gotten boosted.

It’s still true that unvaccinated people are at a much higher risk of dying from an infection. But the new data underscores the risks vulnerable Americans face when infections are at a high level in a community and the significant protection booster shots offer.

[Followed by 2 graphs titled:
Unvaccinated still die at a much higher rate
Oldest seniors are again the majority of COVID-19 deaths]

Experts said they’re not particularly surprised that vaccinated seniors are comprising a greater share of fatalities. As Fenit and Dan explain, the more people infected with the virus, the more people it will kill. And that includes a higher number of those who are vaccinated but are also among the most vulnerable based on age or health conditions.

Overall, deaths among seniors have increased in recent months. Nearly two-thirds of the people who died during the omicron wave were 75 and older, compared with one-third during the delta surge.

But it’s still much riskier to be unvaccinated. Let’s take a look at deaths during January and February, when the contagious omicron variant was surging across the country after the holidays.
•During that time, unvaccinated people died at about seven times the rate of those who were fully vaccinated.
•People with booster shots were better protected. The unvaccinated died at 20 times the rate of those who received a booster shot, according to a study of deaths among the immunized from 23 state and county health departments.

The majority of vaccinated deaths were among people who didn’t get a booster shot, per state data provided to The Post. In two states — California and Mississippi — 75 percent of seniors who died in January and February weren’t boosted. Federal regulators recently greenlit second boosters for people 50 and older, but doctors say they’re still struggling to get people their first booster.

The rising number of vaccinated people dying shouldn’t be a cause for alarm, experts say. Though the shots aren’t foolproof, the vast majority of people survive infections.

“It’s still absolutely more dangerous to be unvaccinated than vaccinated,” Andrew Noymer, a public health professor at the University of California at Irvine who studies covid-19 mortality, told Fenit and Dan. “A pandemic of — and by — the unvaccinated is not correct. People still need to take care in terms of prevention and action if they became symptomatic.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/29/growing-percentage-americans-dying-covid-19-are-vaccinated/


I'm afraid the take-home message I received doesn't include any conspiracy theories.


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PostPosted: 05/07/22 10:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Those odds still speak to the value of being vaccinated. (If my analogy is mathematically correct)

Yes, you got it. The value is pretty obvious once you have the numbers in context.
Side point - Interpreting stats correctly is something I would expect basketball fans to be better than average at.

Howee wrote:
I am still of the belief that these vaccines, created in a hurried fashion to remedy a virus unlike any other, could hardly be flawless.

The studies say that they actually would have been incredibly effective - had the virus not mutated to such a huge extent compared to the OG variant that the vaccine was developed for. By the time they were being rolled out en masse they were already becoming obsolete. It's actually kinda surprising to me that the vaccines are still as helpful as they are today. Covid is still mutating like crazy and now that most of the world is in "endemic mode" where we're just letting the thing run wild, the mutations are only going to increase in frequency.

Hopefully the vax research is still continuing with vigor because what we have now is only going to get less effective from here onward.

--

FrozenLVFan wrote:

Quote:
• During that time, unvaccinated people died at about seven times the rate of those who were fully vaccinated.
• People with booster shots were better protected. The unvaccinated died at 20 times the rate of those who received a booster shot, according to a study of deaths among the immunized from 23 state and county health departments.”

Still seems like kind of a no-brainer to me.
I'd rather have a (non-zero) chance of dying than a (non-zero)-multiplied-by-20 chance.



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PostPosted: 05/09/22 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is this wrong?

jammerbirdi wrote:
The vaccine doesn’t stop transmission. That we know. And it wanes so fucking quickly that four or five months out you are… how do I say this in a scientifically correct way… you are at basically the same great risk of catching COVID as an unvaccinated person, solidly at risk of getting sick from COVID, and, if you die of COVID, you can find comfort or horror in the fact that at whatever particular time you die from COVID, nearly half the other people dying with you are also vaccinated.


The problem with statistics and people who thump on them as proof of whatever their beliefs are is that there’s generally much more going on than whatever narrow statistical analysis is being presented. So you’re only looking at vaccinated versus unvaccinated in terms of deaths. You’re not looking at the many myriad social, cultural, and economic differences between this vast group of Americans who are most likely to be vaccinated and this other vast group who is most likely not to be vaccinated. And then you’re throwing likelyhood of death numbers up. Rolling Eyes

Cutting to the chase on just this point. People who are unvaccinated are more likely to be unnmasked. Wouldn’t you say so? They were and are more likely to exist around others who are likewise unmasked. When we know the virus was raging back where I’m from and people were dying, my sister said that everywhere they went they were the only ones wearing masks. mrs jammer has been home twice this spring and she says the same thing. No one is wearing masks. Posts from friends on Facebook tells me the same story.

But in affluent educated and highly vaccinated LA, until very recently, masks were standard and many still wear them.

So while a vaccine happens once, twice, maybe three times for the numbers who have gotten them, interactions between unvaccinated and unmasked people in regions and social contexts and indoor environments happens billions of times a day, every day and has been happening throughout the pandemic. While, conversely, people who are vaccinated are infinitely more likely to be wearing masks, the right masks, wearing them correctly, and being careful in their choices in terms of surroundings, etc.

Where is this shit in the numbers, Luuuc? So you just throw around 20x more likely etc based on vaccinated versus unvaccinated but there are so many other factors that would contribute to deaths among unvaccinated people. Education level, their own and that of the communities they live in. This is HUGE. They’re also more likely to be working class and working in environments where they have close contact with other unmasked working class people. And none of that is necessarily by choice. While we know, or should know, that those who chose to get vaccinated include a significant portion of the population who did have the option of working from home and many millions have.

I’m just saying these factors and more I’m probably not thinking of are most certainly impacting deaths other than just this vaccine not being injected into people’s arms.

And my whole entire point is around messaging, on the one hand, coming from our government and public health officials, and, on the other hand, the failures of the news media to hold them accountable and nail down what is true and what is hyperbolic political rhetoric for the purpose of manipulating the public toward a desired response, IMO a big underreported on storyline throughout this pandemic.

No one in that media pushed back on Biden when he said this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. It was unquestioned. It was repeated by Jen Psaki and many others. But the vaccines don’t stop transmission. They don’t stop widespread death from COVID. This was not a pandemic of the unvaccinated when it comes to death. Those deaths, as we now know, were happening on a very large scale. This year nearly half the deaths were people who were vaccinated.

And this is still very much unreported. (I’ll ask you all again. Did you know that almost half the people dying this year were vaccinated and almost a quarter last year?) No one countered the pandemic of the unvaccinated statements by pointing out that a quarter of the people dying were vaccinated and this year almost half.

Why am I outraged? Because we were told over and over and over again that, “What we know is that the vaccines prevent death by COVID-19.”

I’m attributing that quote TO MY MEMORY. Because I heard that talking point so many fucking times that the exact words will never leave me. But lest someone doesn’t remember these assertions being made by our public health officials, here’s an example.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/03/22/health/covid-vaccines-prevent-death/index.html

And the whole ‘when and how many doses’ of the vaccine aspect in terms of waning efficacy was a subject I was ALL OVER here way back when I started the fall and winter thread.

I think I may have different expectations from both my government, public health officials, and the news media. And I KNOW I have good reasons to have a different level of anger towards all the mechanisms of failure in terms of presenting the facts to the American people without alienating and stigmatizing a vast portion of the population. Because then, running on a lot bullshit being fed to us by the government, health officials, and the news media, the political stigmatizing and punching down bullying inevitably followed, to a catastrophically divisive extent, which only exacerbates deep seeded divisions and suspicions in this country leading to more death. And these deaths are tragedies. All of them. Not sport.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
Luuuc
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PostPosted: 05/09/22 7:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kinda jumping around on this one, aren't you.
Your original post was completely focused on a stat that you read, concerning vaccination rates and fatalities. A stat that you evidently were previously unaware of, and also apparently didn't interpret very well.

Now you're on some whole other thing about messaging and other factors.

I'll leave that one to people who are better able to comment on the messaging you have been receiving. From over here on the opposite side of the globe the messaging in the US appears to have been very compromised.

I'd say there are many reasons people don't wear masks. For some it is lack of knowledge (though 2+ years into this thing there's really not much excuse for that one), for some it is a political statement, for some it is fatigue, for some it is overconfidence now that they are vaccinated, for some it's just too much of an impractical compromise to the activities they consider important - like being a professional basketball player.



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PostPosted: 05/09/22 10:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Kinda jumping around on this one, aren't you.
Your original post was completely focused on a stat that you read, concerning vaccination rates and fatalities. A stat that you evidently were previously unaware of, and also apparently didn't interpret very well.

Now you're on some whole other thing about messaging and other factors.



Really? I think maybe you didn't interpret my original post very well.

jammerbirdi wrote:
The reason that I find last year’s number so… galling… is that we were told nothing of the sort. It was not even possible that that many vaccinated people were dying.

And yet. There were all of these slight (of hand) hints. THEY KNEW. Because they were altering their public statements to say that ‘most of the people dying and in ICUs we’re unvaccinated.’

Now, go back to what I said in the fall and winter thread. Inside the CDC they were debating the definition of ‘fully vaccinated’ all fall and winter long.

I think we know now why they never issued a change in the designation. Because it didn’t matter that much. Not worth the blowback and not worth having to tell the American people the truth.

This is a mountain of lies and disinformation and confusion and funky guidance and the mandates and all the rest.

God the power that Pfizer must have over our news media and our government.


Are you okay?



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PostPosted: 05/14/22 6:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I see lots of places declaring that we've hit 1,000,000 COVID deaths. The CDC is showing 997,000. Whichever. Doesn't matter. It's a lot of people. One million!! In a little over two years. Still blows my mind.

San Jose, CA has a population of 1,003,000.

I heard on NPR today that North Korea is now reporting cases and deaths. And that they have a terrible health care system and no vaccines.



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PostPosted: 05/14/22 6:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Now, the authorities are not only acknowledging the virus' presence but declaring an all-out battle to control it, with North Korean leader Kim Jong-un calling it the "greatest turmoil" to fall on the nation since its founding. A national lockdown is in place.

Quote:
"It's a very decrepit system. Aside from two million people living in Pyongyang, the majority of the country has access to very poor quality healthcare."

Defectors speak of beer bottles being used to hold IV fluid, or of needles reused until they rust.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-61450255



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