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UK1996
Joined: 03 Sep 2015 Posts: 403
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Posted: 01/10/22 12:08 am ::: |
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I personally think Howard can be a better pro. I can see her has a 2nd or 3rd option on a contending team down the road. I’ve watched her for four years, and have never gotten the criticism that she doesn’t show up in big games. There have been several games over the years that have been saved by Rhyne making the big play needed whether it was a steal, 3 pointer, rebound, etc. She hasn’t had a teammate since Maci Morris who truely could also be relied on to score. She won’t have that in the W. I think Howard has seemed somewhat stagnate more due too the situation she’s in. We haven’t ever seemed to recover from the mass exodus a few years ago. We seemed to be a steadily rising program before that. Our player development hasn’t had a ton of standouts since then. Even before the exodus we never seemed to know how to develop bigs to their potential. I know Ryhne is a SF/SG, but that lack of development has leaked over too the guards as well. I think Washington should trade the pick as well if they believe EDD, and Meeseman will be back and ready to play at a contending level. However, if they think EDD is more likely to retire, they should keep the pick.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12528 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 01/10/22 10:55 am ::: |
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UK1996 wrote: |
I personally think Howard can be a better pro. I can see her has a 2nd or 3rd option on a contending team down the road. I’ve watched her for four years, and have never gotten the criticism that she doesn’t show up in big games. There have been several games over the years that have been saved by Rhyne making the big play needed whether it was a steal, 3 pointer, rebound, etc. She hasn’t had a teammate since Maci Morris who truely could also be relied on to score. She won’t have that in the W. I think Howard has seemed somewhat stagnate more due too the situation she’s in. We haven’t ever seemed to recover from the mass exodus a few years ago. We seemed to be a steadily rising program before that. Our player development hasn’t had a ton of standouts since then. Even before the exodus we never seemed to know how to develop bigs to their potential. I know Ryhne is a SF/SG, but that lack of development has leaked over too the guards as well. I think Washington should trade the pick as well if they believe EDD, and Meeseman will be back and ready to play at a contending level. However, if they think EDD is more likely to retire, they should keep the pick. |
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4398674/type/womens-college-basketball/year/2021\
Rhyne Howard Last season
South Carolina 12 pts 6 Rebs 2-11 shooting
Tennessee 8 Pts 7 rebs 6 Assists 7 steals 4-13 shooting
Tennessee Again 14 pts 3 rebs 3 assists 3-16 shooting
Her sophomore years seems to be the pinnacle so far for Rhyne. Last year she had a considerable drop in marquee matchups.
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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DFWub2018
Joined: 24 Aug 2018 Posts: 1047 Location: Dallas/Ft. Worth
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Posted: 01/10/22 1:26 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
UK1996 wrote: |
I personally think Howard can be a better pro. I can see her has a 2nd or 3rd option on a contending team down the road. I’ve watched her for four years, and have never gotten the criticism that she doesn’t show up in big games. There have been several games over the years that have been saved by Rhyne making the big play needed whether it was a steal, 3 pointer, rebound, etc. She hasn’t had a teammate since Maci Morris who truely could also be relied on to score. She won’t have that in the W. I think Howard has seemed somewhat stagnate more due too the situation she’s in. We haven’t ever seemed to recover from the mass exodus a few years ago. We seemed to be a steadily rising program before that. Our player development hasn’t had a ton of standouts since then. Even before the exodus we never seemed to know how to develop bigs to their potential. I know Ryhne is a SF/SG, but that lack of development has leaked over too the guards as well. I think Washington should trade the pick as well if they believe EDD, and Meeseman will be back and ready to play at a contending level. However, if they think EDD is more likely to retire, they should keep the pick. |
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4398674/type/womens-college-basketball/year/2021\
Rhyne Howard Last season
South Carolina 12 pts 6 Rebs 2-11 shooting
Tennessee 8 Pts 7 rebs 6 Assists 7 steals 4-13 shooting
Tennessee Again 14 pts 3 rebs 3 assists 3-16 shooting
Her sophomore years seems to be the pinnacle so far for Rhyne. Last year she had a considerable drop in marquee matchups. |
WNBA09....So how bad is Bibb going to blow this opportunity this year???
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63764
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63764
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Posted: 01/14/22 11:11 am ::: |
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Kayla Pointer made the clutch game-winning drive for LSU last night. That’s her who gets the closeup towards the end. I said it last year that she gives me Wheeler vibes. With the lack of expansion and retirements, she would probably have a tough time making a roster right away, but could probably take the delayed Wheeler route if she’s determined enough.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/23Ct9sxNQuI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 01/15/22 3:52 pm ::: |
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Pointer is on pace to set career highs in just about every category. Most notably, she's shooting 3s way better than she had in previous years. Except for Henderson, I don't know most of these point guards, but Clouden, Burton, and Morrison also have their fans on this board. Right now, the numbers look solid to really good on all of them. Maybe this will be the year for teams to add a cheap young point guard -- at least on a backup level. There's also the enigmatic Evina Westbrook if you want a combo-guard with size. That assumes she can get her act together by the end of the year.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14109
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Posted: 01/16/22 10:15 pm ::: |
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Shades wrote: |
Sabally is playing again and therefore won’t be a deferral unless somebody is predicting she’ll get hurt again at the end of the season. I don’t think I’ve ever recalled a player declaring early entry to the draft and also deferring. Kind of a weird concept. And if she’s that injury prone, who’s salivating to pick her up?
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“Physically, I’m feeling pretty good. It’s a day-to-day thing,” Sabally said. “I’m still limited in my minutes, but it’s getting better. I’m just looking forward to being healthy the rest of the season.” |
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After this season she could technically have 3 more years left of college eligibility when you consider redshirts and COVID. So it could be more of being done with college and playing in Europe and with German National Team deferral than a health or improvement deferral.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008 Posts: 14109
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Posted: 01/16/22 10:15 pm ::: |
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awhom111 wrote: |
GEF34 wrote: |
Is the question about her status because she took classes at UCLA or is it just the fact that she signed with UCLA? |
Signing is not enough or Jade Melbourne would also be ineligible. The question of her status is in regard to being enrolled in classes. As mentioned in the article, Mo checked with people and the position is that given the unusual circumstances for both Potter and Izzy Anstey had she opted to turn pro, that they would be allowed to retain international status barring objections. I can't imagine that the union would be all that interested in being an obstacle there, but I suppose that it would still be possible. I am not sure if Potter is really draft-worthy at this point, but there could be an effect later if she is not picked and someone wants to sign her later. |
Thanks for the info.
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UK1996
Joined: 03 Sep 2015 Posts: 403
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Posted: 01/17/22 12:48 am ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
UK1996 wrote: |
I personally think Howard can be a better pro. I can see her has a 2nd or 3rd option on a contending team down the road. I’ve watched her for four years, and have never gotten the criticism that she doesn’t show up in big games. There have been several games over the years that have been saved by Rhyne making the big play needed whether it was a steal, 3 pointer, rebound, etc. She hasn’t had a teammate since Maci Morris who truely could also be relied on to score. She won’t have that in the W. I think Howard has seemed somewhat stagnate more due too the situation she’s in. We haven’t ever seemed to recover from the mass exodus a few years ago. We seemed to be a steadily rising program before that. Our player development hasn’t had a ton of standouts since then. Even before the exodus we never seemed to know how to develop bigs to their potential. I know Ryhne is a SF/SG, but that lack of development has leaked over too the guards as well. I think Washington should trade the pick as well if they believe EDD, and Meeseman will be back and ready to play at a contending level. However, if they think EDD is more likely to retire, they should keep the pick. |
https://www.espn.com/womens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/4398674/type/womens-college-basketball/year/2021\
Rhyne Howard Last season
South Carolina 12 pts 6 Rebs 2-11 shooting
Tennessee 8 Pts 7 rebs 6 Assists 7 steals 4-13 shooting
Tennessee Again 14 pts 3 rebs 3 assists 3-16 shooting
Her sophomore years seems to be the pinnacle so far for Rhyne. Last year she had a considerable drop in marquee matchups. |
Her production has dropped this year, but I still think she is the best prospect in this draft. I think she’ll be better suited in the W with more talented players around her.
Rhyne Howard Games agains Top 10 teams
2018-2019
@Louisville 25 10 6
*@NC State 21 7 1
2019-2020
Louisville 26 4 2
@SC 28 6 2
MissSt 26 10 2
SC 24 11 3
MissSt 26 7 2
2020-2021
ARk 24 10 2
@MissSt 33 10 6
@A&M 22 6 5
SC 32 7 3
@SC 12 6 2
Iowa* 28 5 8
2020-2022
@IU 23 9 2
@Lou 9 7 2
@SC 9 8 6
@TN 24 5 3
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 01/17/22 10:17 am ::: |
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Howard is also playing with teammates with a lower level of talent than say South Carolina which is loaded with 5-star recruits. When a defense-oriented athletic team of 5-star recruits is geared up to stop you, it’s hard. Especially when your team isn’t all that close comparatively in talent level.
Howard’s game features attributes of the polished version of Copper IMO only better. Howard has similar athleticism, moves around the rim and the ability to create her shot. But she also has better handle and playmaking ability. Her release is a bit on the long side and her shot sometimes flattens out. But overall the upside is there. I don’t know that her ceiling is that of a top-tier offensive player. But I do think it’s high. When you factor in that she plays defense, she rebounds and she’s a fairly willing passer, I think the complete package is highly impressive. Now that the game has become so much more about spacing and perimeter play, the ability to switch and defend multiple positions in space is pretty important. Howard and Atkins in tandem would make things very difficult defensively for opponents too.
Also, as she grows, she might be one of those players who occasionally gets used as a smaller 4-spot player. Not right away but down the road. A perimeter-oriented coach like Mike Thibault can get a lot out of a player like this too. In my estimation.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24350 Location: London
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Posted: 01/17/22 12:14 pm ::: |
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Also the main knock on Howard seems to be "she doesn't play hard" or "she doesn't seem to try all the time". Well okay, but look at the production (and with limited help). If that's what she can do when she's not really trying, so that's kind of your floor for a supposedly half-assed Howard, imagine what's possible if that's actually right and a coach manages to push her. Or maybe actually being paid for her performances is a motivator.
I understand that people want to see star players dominate games and actively affect them. One of the knocks I used to have on Diggins-Smith was that she'd have stats at the end of the game, but you often couldn't feel her having an impact while she accumulated them. I also understand that a lot of people have seen more of Howard than I have. But she's really effective in a lot of ways. I think she's going to be a really good pro, and the only question is whether we're talking really good or really good. |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66903 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 01/17/22 12:54 pm ::: |
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Richyyy wrote: |
Also the main knock on Howard seems to be "she doesn't play hard" or "she doesn't seem to try all the time". Well okay, but look at the production (and with limited help). If that's what she can do when she's not really trying, so that's kind of your floor for a supposedly half-assed Howard, imagine what's possible if that's actually right and a coach manages to push her. Or maybe actually being paid for her performances is a motivator. |
OTOH a lack of effort was the #1 knock on LaToya Thomas, who was a very productive college player. There's good reason to be wary of such players.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63764
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Posted: 01/17/22 1:11 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
Richyyy wrote: |
Also the main knock on Howard seems to be "she doesn't play hard" or "she doesn't seem to try all the time". Well okay, but look at the production (and with limited help). If that's what she can do when she's not really trying, so that's kind of your floor for a supposedly half-assed Howard, imagine what's possible if that's actually right and a coach manages to push her. Or maybe actually being paid for her performances is a motivator. |
OTOH a lack of effort was the #1 knock on LaToya Thomas, who was a very productive college player. There's good reason to be wary of such players. |
It was recently pointed out the same comparison applies to Candace Parker, so there’s good reason to be excited of such players.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 01/17/22 4:20 pm ::: |
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Sometimes the players who have more of an upright long-limbed build (Parker and Howard share that trait) give an illusion of not playing 100% even when they really are. I don’t see effort being Howard’s issue, personally.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12528 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 01/17/22 9:43 pm ::: |
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Tbh out of the three seniors in storrs I’d give Ono a look first in this draft. I see her adjusting the best if she puts on a few pounds she has all the tools to develope.
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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bballnut901
Joined: 28 Aug 2018 Posts: 50
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Posted: 01/17/22 11:50 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
Tbh out of the three seniors in storrs I’d give Ono a look first in this draft. I see her adjusting the best if she puts on a few pounds she has all the tools to develope. |
Agreed. Has good size and length, plays hard, defends well and is a good passer. Has the capability to be a solid pro IMO.
Williams could go either way--she could be a solid guard but I could also see her fizzling out.
Westbrook doesn't look like a WNBA player based on her play this season. Just hasn't stepped up to the plate.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4226
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Posted: 01/18/22 12:23 am ::: |
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toad455,
I noticed that on your player rankings, you included Raneem Elgedawy. I think that she actually falls under what I am calling the Tsineke rule, who you have listed for next year. Both of them turned 20 in the year that they started in college so I think that it could be successfully argued that they went undrafted as internationals and should be considered free agents in WNBA terms. The cases seem unusual, but it is making me look harder when foreign college players are mentioned. |
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snlMINAJ
Joined: 21 Jan 2010 Posts: 1217
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Posted: 01/18/22 6:19 am ::: |
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bballnut901 wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
Tbh out of the three seniors in storrs I’d give Ono a look first in this draft. I see her adjusting the best if she puts on a few pounds she has all the tools to develope. |
Agreed. Has good size and length, plays hard, defends well and is a good passer. Has the capability to be a solid pro IMO.
Williams could go either way--she could be a solid guard but I could also see her fizzling out.
Westbrook doesn't look like a WNBA player based on her play this season. Just hasn't stepped up to the plate. |
she really impressed me against Oregon. shes always been a good passer and shot blocker and you can't teach her size/frame.
however she usually implodes against against similarly skilled post players.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Posted: 01/18/22 9:11 am ::: |
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Nelson-Ododa clearly has pro-level athletic ability. She needs to add muscle, but otherwise Olivia is long, can jump, and moves extremely well for her height. Defensively, other than strength, ONO looks fine. Her problems are on the offensive end. In the low post, Nelson-Ododa does a poor job of protecting the basketball. She doesn't seal well enough to prevent defenders from knocking the pass away. When Olivia does get her hands on the ball, she seems to have trouble holding on to it -- either fumbling the pass or getting stripped while dribbling. ONO holds the ball in front of her and stares at the basket before shooting. That makes it easy to block her shots. Olivia also has no touch around the rim. The one positive note is that she does display decent footwork. Away from the basket, Nelson-Ododa looks like she has acceptable form but her shots almost never go in. On the positive side, she is an outstanding passer for a post player. Between passing and setting screens, that may be enough for ONO to stay on the floor at the pro level without being a total zero on offense.
Christyn Williams also clearly has pro athletic ability. However, she is really inconsistent and makes a lot of bad decisions. Christyn just seems to have poor basketball instincts.
Westbrook is not only dropping out of the first round, she may be playing herself out of the draft entirely. With the rise of several other point guards, there are plenty of other choices out there. Evina needs to get her act together really quick. This is a player who looked really good as a sophomore. Now, as a fifth-year senior, she's barely average even for a college player.
_________________ You can always do something else.
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bballnut901
Joined: 28 Aug 2018 Posts: 50
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Posted: 01/18/22 1:17 pm ::: |
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snlMINAJ wrote: |
bballnut901 wrote: |
WNBA 09 wrote: |
Tbh out of the three seniors in storrs I’d give Ono a look first in this draft. I see her adjusting the best if she puts on a few pounds she has all the tools to develope. |
Agreed. Has good size and length, plays hard, defends well and is a good passer. Has the capability to be a solid pro IMO.
Williams could go either way--she could be a solid guard but I could also see her fizzling out.
Westbrook doesn't look like a WNBA player based on her play this season. Just hasn't stepped up to the plate. |
she really impressed me against Oregon. shes always been a good passer and shot blocker and you can't teach her size/frame.
however she usually implodes against against similarly skilled post players. |
In the past she has faded against good opposing posts, but she did a good job yesterday vs. Prince/Sabally (I don't recall who she was directly matched up against). I thought she did an admirable job on Aliyah Boston earlier this year too even though stats show Boston dominating the matchup. Also had good numbers vs. Georgia Tech, but I didn't see the game. I don't think she'll ever be a big scorer in the league but could see her being a strong defense oriented backup post if she hits the weight room. Plus if she can consistently hit from the high post (which we've seen flashes of at times, along with a lot of misses), I think she could find her spot in the league.
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awhom111
Joined: 19 Nov 2014 Posts: 4226
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Posted: 01/19/22 1:03 am ::: |
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Another one of those weird situations that only I care about at all:
Olga Petrova is in this draft, but without the extra year of eligibility, she would have been automatically in the last draft even though she only turned 21 in 2021. She did not declare last year, but that would have made it a second VCU player to have gone to college younger than usual. Of course she is not as good as the other one, having spent most of this season in the Russian third division. |
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014 Posts: 3512
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Rock Hard
Joined: 02 Aug 2010 Posts: 5376 Location: Chocolate Paradise
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Posted: 01/19/22 11:20 pm ::: |
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Very interesting.🙂
_________________ You can win, as long as you keep your head to the SKY! Be OPTIMISTIC!
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63764
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Posted: 01/21/22 1:42 am ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
If I’m Thibault I’m excercising the thought of trading down or for a Vet in the post for #1. |
He’s got too many vets he can’t afford now. What he gets in #1 is a young talented player relatively cheap for 4 years. Exactly what he needs.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006 Posts: 63764
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Posted: 01/21/22 1:59 am ::: |
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J-Spoon wrote: |
Why doesn't Que Morrison get into the draft conversation?
I have seen her a few time now and she looks like a player to me. I am not saying first round but she seems to have some potential pro qualities. I would at least think she would be popping up on someones list in the 2nd or 3rd round.
Que seems to have decent stats on a good team that she seems to be the leader of and eye test she seems to have positional size and athleticism. |
Were you excited about her last year? I’m guessing she took her Covid extra year because she wasn’t getting good feedback about where she was getting drafted. She’s listed at 5’7, so she’d most likely have to make it as a PG. There’s so many shorter combo guards available that it’s hard to get excited about them unless they’re showing something special. The one in this category I like is Pointer, but even with her I think it’ll be tough to make a roster.
_________________ Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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