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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: 12/08/21 9:35 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Tell me what Sandy Brondello has won without generational talent and I'll consider her resume. |
If you believe Ionescu is a generational talent then hiring someone with a proven ability to win with such talent seems reasonable |
Do people still believe that she's a generational talent?
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 12/08/21 11:16 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Tell me what Sandy Brondello has won without generational talent and I'll consider her resume. |
If you believe Ionescu is a generational talent then hiring someone with a proven ability to win with such talent seems reasonable |
Do people still believe that she's a generational talent? |
I think it's too soon to know. Her rookie season simply wasn't. Her sophomore season included a good number of games in which she obviously wasn't 100%. I believe Sabrina will be a valuable player for the Liberty. "A generational talent"? I'm not sure.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 12/09/21 12:23 am ::: |
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Ionescu is a generational talent imo. And she will realize her potential – so long as injuries don't hold her back.
However, I'm still personally not 100% convinced she should be a full-time PG. She was at her best at Oregon when she played half the time off the ball and the other half on. I wish whoever starts alongside her in the backcourt in the long term were either a CG or a true PG. And the team seemed to start going in that direction in the beginning of the 2020 season, as we saw Hopkins start Clarendon next to Ionescu for the three games she played in. Her very first game was understandably rough (12 pts on 4-17 FG against the Storm), but her second-ever game continues to contain the single-best scoring output of her career (33 pts on 11-20 FG against the Wings). And then of course she got injured, which probably affected the course of the entire team after that. While we still don't know just how much her ankle affected her play throughout this past season, I'm sure it wasn't easy on her to basically have to be not just the main PG on the team, but the only one on the team, as a player who was virtually a rookie. I sure hope we at least see the team bring in another PG of some sort to help shoulder the burden of leading the team from there, even if that player gets relegated strictly to being Ionescu's backup.
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Michelle89
Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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| Posted: 12/09/21 5:13 am ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| pilight wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| Tell me what Sandy Brondello has won without generational talent and I'll consider her resume. |
If you believe Ionescu is a generational talent then hiring someone with a proven ability to win with such talent seems reasonable |
Do people still believe that she's a generational talent? |
Most rookie PG's need a couple of years to really adjust to the WNBA game. Just look at Sloot.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 12/09/21 11:19 am ::: |
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| Michelle89 wrote: |
| Most rookie PG's need a couple of years to really adjust to the WNBA game. Just look at Sloot. |
This is exactly what I was trying to get at.
Here's what I care about infinitely more than people's lists of "generational talents." When we get to 2031, will Liberty fans will be saying: "It was great that we got the #1 pick at the right time and were able to draft Sabrina Ionescu"? I say the answer will be "yes."
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 12/09/21 5:17 pm ::: |
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| Sabrina has been hurt for much of her career. Her shooting and vision are elite. When healthy, she’s shown she can penetrate and break down defenses. She’ll be fine.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 12/09/21 8:18 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Well. The timing was certainly odd. It’s closer to the free agent negotiation period than the end of the season. It makes one wonder why now. |
The timing is so intriguing. It certainly suggests that there may have been mixed feelings about whether to retain or dump Hopkins. (This wasn't made clear, but I am assuming that he didn't simply quit.)
Some options:
There were postseason discussions between Kolb and Hopkins that didn't go well. Perhaps Kolb pushed Walt to abandon "small ball" and Walt wouldn't. Or seemed so unenthusiastic about making changes that Kolb decided he should fire Walt.
Kolb immediately wanted to fire Hopkins, but the Tsais were reluctant to approve that move, then ultimately came around for whatever reasons. Or the reverse: the Tsais were pushing to fire Hopkins but Kolb wanted to keep him, then ultimately Kolb came around. (Perhaps fearing they'd just fire him AND Hopkins.)
Kolb got surprising news that Sandy Brondello (or someone else) became available. He'd planned to keep Walt, then decided he liked the new option better.
These are all guesses. Could be that I haven't close to the truth with any of these thoughts. But I'd have to think that something changed between the end of the season and this week that led to Walt's departure. |
There’s definitely a myriad of possibilities. One thing about the W, whatever the possibilities are, it’s very unlikely fans will ever find out the reason or the background. While maybe it’s good that we don’t have the sensationalizing in the media that other sports do, it’d be nice to know the whole story every now and then too.
In a league with a longer offseason than season, it’s already challenging enough without also having to scratch and claw for morsels of information.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 12/09/21 9:40 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
There’s definitely a myriad of possibilities. One thing about the W, whatever the possibilities are, it’s very unlikely fans will ever find out the reason or the background. While maybe it’s good that we don’t have the sensationalizing in the media that other sports do, it’d be nice to know the whole story every now and then too.
In a league with a longer offseason than season, it’s already challenging enough without also having to scratch and claw for morsels of information. |
I find it quite frustrating. As a fan of the Mets and the Knicks, teams from the same city as the Liberty, the difference in media coverage is staggering. And I'm not just talking about the quantity of coverage, but also the quality. It's way too rare that anyone in the local sports media even attempts to explain anything of interest about the Liberty. Why is Walt Hopkins gone? We should already have five or six good articles exploring that, even if the reporters can't get the full story. Instead we apparently have nothing.
This was the first season that I watched many of the postgame press conferences with Walt Hopkins and Liberty players. Both as someone who's done published journalism and as a fan, I often wished I could be there and scream. Never at the players, occasionally at Walt, but mainly at the reporters. Awful. Just awful. An endless array of what are sometimes called "softball" questions. Our team had a second-half stretch where New York won one out of 12 games!!! Doesn't that call for some tough questioning at a press conference? Ugh.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 12/15/21 4:00 pm ::: |
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A couple of articles about Asia Durr. The second refers to the first and elaborates a bit more. It still seems pretty questionable whether Durr willl be able to play this season.
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| While some long haulers have seen symptoms improve with the COVID vaccine, Durr said she has not been vaccinated yet because she doesn’t want to risk a setback. |
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Durr still has to be cleared to rejoin team activities, and hopes that will happen before training camp opens in April. In the meantime, she is working out on her own, following a strength program put together by one of the coaches at Louisville, where she was a two-time All-American.
“I’ve made progress since I started training, but this really is a day-to-day thing. I’m cautious I’m not pushing too hard, too soon, and being smart,” Durr said. |
https://sports.yahoo.com/just-got-used-being-sick-191636140.html
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| Durr said doctors at Mount Sinai Health System told her in November 2020 she was the "worst case of COVID" they had seen and "the longest long-hauler patient" they'd had among hundreds. |
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But she is still experiencing memory loss and occasional "brain fog," a term used by patients to describe when their thinking is "sluggish, fuzzy and not sharp," according to Harvard Health. And she's still taking two medications for her symptoms.
The flare-ups that likely occur because the virus attached her nervous system, specifically doctors said the nerves, have decreased, but still happen. Triggers include too much sugar, too much physical stress and too much talking, she told USA Today Sports.
Durr said she is working out on her own. Though she is cleared to play, it's unclear what that looks like in practice. Will game activities cause flare-ups? How has taking two years away from physical activity impacted her, and how does that play into a comeback amid those flare-ups? |
https://au.sports.yahoo.com/wnba-liberty-asia-durr-covid-flare-ups-worst-case-of-long-haul-covid-doctors-said-theyd-seen-170553809.html
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 12/15/21 7:59 pm ::: |
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root_thing--Thanks so much for posting these articles. I find them very disturbing to read. I feel so sad about what Asia Durr has gone through, IS going through, and what she faces ahead.
I will keep saying what I've said from the beginning. My hope is that Asia Durr can have a long and healthy or mostly healthy life. Whether that includes playing in the WNBA or not. It's great that she has improved enough to be "cleared to play," but reading of her continued struggles is painful. I hope that as we get into 2022 we will read some better reports on how Asia Durr is doing.
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myrtle
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Stormeo
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undersized_post
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/15/21 11:11 pm ::: |
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I mean, with her luck, she'd be one of the people who has severe side effects from the vaccine and it would just start her back down the spiral.
{corrected a preposition, or maybe a conjunction- one of those things}
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root_thing
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 12/16/21 10:43 pm ::: |
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I said when they fired Hopkins that Hammon would presumably be the dream candidate (but that she probably wouldn't take it). If you're Kolb, at the very least surely you make the phone call. If you're Becky, I don't know. She can say the door's open, but it would be very easy for the NBA to forget about her if she jumps to the WNBA. And how far away from finally retiring is Popovich, opening up her likeliest route to an NBA head job?
So have the conversation, but I'm still gonna be surprised if she ends up in the job. |
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 12/16/21 11:08 pm ::: |
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Making that statement about the WNBA right at this moment may mean that (a) Hammon believes Popovich isn't ready to retire; and (b) she's discouraged about whether she will EVER be offered an NBA head coaching job.
After Katie Smith and Walt Hopkins, I've favored the Liberty hiring a head coach with WNBA head coaching experience. However, I agree that Kolb should see if Becky is willing to take the Liberty job.
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johnjohnW
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| Posted: 12/17/21 6:55 am ::: |
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| Could the Liberty afford her, though? I imagine with her tenure as an assistant coach in the NBA, she is making substantially more than any WNBA head coach. Is a paycut really worth it? I think the Liberty should make history and make her the highest paid HC in league history. It would be great publicity for the league.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 12/17/21 8:26 am ::: |
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| I have come to the conclusion that I am not as comfortable as I once was with women using the NBA as a springboard to WBB coaching jobs. I’m having trouble articulating the reason for it, though.
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gpark33
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| Posted: 12/17/21 11:43 am ::: |
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Even if that was conjecture, the Lib have to make that call to Becky and give her whatever they can afford to try to seal the deal.
But honestly, Becky wasn't going to say take a WNBA job would be a step back and that they can't afford her and that she'd rather have her own NBA team. She would never disrespect the women's game like that.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 12/17/21 1:03 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| After Katie Smith and Walt Hopkins, I've favored the Liberty hiring a head coach with WNBA head coaching experience. However, I agree that Kolb should see if Becky is willing to take the Liberty job. |
I basically feel the same way. I prefer someone with a track record, but it's hard to say no to Becky. I do wonder how much she has followed women's basketball over these past years. It's one thing to know your X's and O's, and it sounds like Hammon is pretty good with people, but does she know the WNBA anymore? Is she aware of what players can do around the league, and is she watching college prospects who may enter the draft? In order to put together the best team, you need to be familiar with everyone who is available. Especially if you are dealing with young players, a coach needs to know their strengths, weaknesses, and potential to improve. Beyond whether New York can afford Hammon or not, I'm just concerned that she has a lot of catching up to do.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 12/17/21 2:50 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| After Katie Smith and Walt Hopkins, I've favored the Liberty hiring a head coach with WNBA head coaching experience. However, I agree that Kolb should see if Becky is willing to take the Liberty job. |
I basically feel the same way. I prefer someone with a track record, but it's hard to say no to Becky. I do wonder how much she has followed women's basketball over these past years. It's one thing to know your X's and O's, and it sounds like Hammon is pretty good with people, but does she know the WNBA anymore? Is she aware of what players can do around the league, and is she watching college prospects who may enter the draft? In order to put together the best team, you need to be familiar with everyone who is available. Especially if you are dealing with young players, a coach needs to know their strengths, weaknesses, and potential to improve. Beyond whether New York can afford Hammon or not, I'm just concerned that she has a lot of catching up to do. |
This is quite valuable. So if Kolb offers the job to Becky Hammon and if she accepts--two big ifs--she would certainly need an assistant head coach who would know the current WNBA extremely well AND would have been watching college prospects who may enter the draft.
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 12/17/21 2:56 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| I have come to the conclusion that I am not as comfortable as I once was with women using the NBA as a springboard to WBB coaching jobs. I’m having trouble articulating the reason for it, though. |
Is it possible that you became less comfortable with the idea, when it became plausible that a woman could actually become an NBA head coach?
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Shades
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| Posted: 12/17/21 3:10 pm ::: |
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| Hopefully all the talk from Hammon about “basketball being basketball” was just an attempt to elevate the WNBA in onlookers eyes. I hope she holds on to the pursuit of an NBA head coaching job for the sake of other women who may want to do the same. Breaking the glass ceiling? Those misogynists who claim interviewing a woman for a NBA head coaching job is merely virtue signaling…. can’t let them win.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 12/17/21 6:19 pm ::: |
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| It might be a temporary setback to breaking the glass ceiling if Becky Hammon were to accept a job as New York Liberty head coach--or were to accept some other women's basketball job. But that wouldn't end the issue. It is inevitable that there will be increasing pressure for NBA teams to seriously consider talented women for head coaching gigs. Right now there are seven women serving as NBA assistant coaches. There will be more.
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