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Cooper2009
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 Posted: 09/24/21 8:32 am ::: |
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| This is Gold! But I agree with what they’re saying and it saddens me. A part of why the W hasn’t grown is because the female players playing the game aren’t even watching. I’ve seen players tweet that they’d not watched a W game until they entered the league… wtf???
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Milks26
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| Posted: 09/24/21 10:29 pm ::: |
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| Cooper2009 wrote: |
| This is Gold! But I agree with what they’re saying and it saddens me. A part of why the W hasn’t grown is because the female players playing the game aren’t even watching. I’ve seen players tweet that they’d not watched a W game until they entered the league… wtf??? |
Even worse Didi Richards said that she never knew the league existed until her Baylor teammate Kalani Brown got drafted. WTF!!! Makes me wonder what these college recruiters are telling these kids on visits.
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Cooper2009
Joined: 04 Nov 2017
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| Posted: 09/25/21 12:15 am ::: |
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| Milks26 wrote: |
| Cooper2009 wrote: |
| This is Gold! But I agree with what they’re saying and it saddens me. A part of why the W hasn’t grown is because the female players playing the game aren’t even watching. I’ve seen players tweet that they’d not watched a W game until they entered the league… wtf??? |
Even worse Didi Richards said that she never knew the league existed until her Baylor teammate Kalani Brown got drafted. WTF!!! Makes me wonder what these college recruiters are telling these kids on visits. |
Exactly. What in the entire hell… I appreciate the comments on every player they spoke on. Period. And maybe if the vets had a louder voice the W and college hall in general would be in a better space. These ladies need to be challenged and called out for mediocre play and maybe if they were and weren’t just lauded for padded stats we’d see better/more improved play. The play is great don’t get me wrong but there is a lot of soft play in the league due to “superstar/face of the league/franchise” status.
Marketability above true ability. The business has exceeded the Game. Until having game outweighs marketability is will be an issue.
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014
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| Posted: 09/25/21 1:40 pm ::: |
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| Milks26 wrote: |
| Cooper2009 wrote: |
| This is Gold! But I agree with what they’re saying and it saddens me. A part of why the W hasn’t grown is because the female players playing the game aren’t even watching. I’ve seen players tweet that they’d not watched a W game until they entered the league… wtf??? |
Even worse Didi Richards said that she never knew the league existed until her Baylor teammate Kalani Brown got drafted. WTF!!! Makes me wonder what these college recruiters are telling these kids on visits. |
Better question, how'd they get into basketball, in the first place? In the last decade or so, you can't even watch men's basketball, without seeing promotion for the WNBA.
Also, "marketability above true ability"? That sounds like some straight nonsense, to me. Who's the player in the modern WNBA whose perceived marketability is grossly out of proportion to their game, on the court?
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/25/21 1:51 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| Who's the player in the modern WNBA whose perceived marketability is grossly out of proportion to their game, on the court? |
Right now? Ionescu. She gets a lot of attention for a 38% shooting guard on a bad team.
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 09/25/21 5:05 pm ::: |
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| I would agree that the attention that she gets from the media is out of proportion to her productivity on the court (and much of that can probably be attributed to her association with Kobe Bryant), but I don't know that that's a problem that could be considered endemic around the league, to the point of feeling like it needed to be called out. Also, is there a perception among other WNBA fans that Ionescu is getting a lot of "superstar" calls, on the court? Because I'm not seeing that.
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Cooper2009
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| Posted: 09/25/21 6:43 pm ::: |
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| Silky Johnson wrote: |
| I would agree that the attention that she gets from the media is out of proportion to her productivity on the court (and much of that can probably be attributed to her association with Kobe Bryant), but I don't know that that's a problem that could be considered endemic around the league, to the point of feeling like it needed to be called out. Also, is there a perception among other WNBA fans that Ionescu is getting a lot of "superstar" calls, on the court? Because I'm not seeing that. |
Te’a Cooper is another… it’s about popularity and less about skill and I’m not saying the ladies aren’t skilled but there’s a focus on marketing themselves that seems to take precedent over best the best as a player for some of them.
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Silky Johnson
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| Posted: 09/25/21 7:04 pm ::: |
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| Cooper2009 wrote: |
| Te’a Cooper is another… |
Is she? Because I had to ask Doctor Internet who Te'a Cooper was. And, my first reaction to seeing pictures of her on my preferred search engine was, I still didn't know who she was. It took reading the writeup underneath her picture to realize that she plays for the Sparks... I've only seen, like, three Sparks games all season, and none since early July, and I'm not aware of any national ad campaigns that she's been involved in, so I guess she's escaped my notice.
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Milks26
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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| Posted: 10/06/21 9:17 am ::: |
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Thanks for posting definitely going back and watching this. Im excited to see Chamique Holdsclaw on next Tuesday I know shes going to give us all the juicy details of the WNBA back then .
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Iluvacc
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| Posted: 10/06/21 2:12 pm ::: |
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I love these! Going back now viewing the older episode’s.
God bless Penny, she is hilarious, but will butcher a name 😳😩🤣
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WNBA 09
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WNBA 09
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NoDakSt
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| Posted: 10/13/21 2:19 pm ::: |
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| Chamique looked and sounded great. Loved where she got to breakdown the scout on Toler, Ruthie, and Spoon. She has a great memory for the history of the sport.
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Iluvacc
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jap
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| Posted: 10/23/21 3:05 pm ::: |
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| Iluvacc wrote: |
I love these! My favorite guests have been Gail Marquis, Teresa Edwards, and Chamique Holdsclaw. Looking forward to Catch, Lynette Woodward, and Cheryl Miller.
Interesting that when talk of the greatest players come up on these episodes, none of them ever mention Lauren Jackson 
Also very surprising was Holdsclaw's pick for her top 5 players
Bird
Taurasi
Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lisa Leslie
Two Uconn players
 No Tenn players No Catch
Veddy interesting |
Nice take, Iluvacc! I am not sure just how surprising 'Mique's picks are. There is a scarcity of video material on the older players; so it makes sense for 'Mique to focus on those players she has actually competed with or against on court. Trying to imagine the play of the older legends based on stories told by Pat Summitt & others does not compete well with experiencing the real life athleticism and sleigh of hands magic of players you shared a court with. 'Mique played with a younger, more immature Catch who was less than the defensive monster she mutated into in the WNBA. She played with Lisa in 2006 when she came to the Sparks; so she experienced Lisa's consistent gameday intensity and allcourt play up close & personal.
I love these sessions myself because I always wanted to know how well some of the legendary older players such as Cheryl Miller, Lynnette Woodard, and Hortensia (spelling?) compared to the more modern ballers through the eyes of former players who saw the older guard compete. I tend to assume that Cheryl Miller was the best overall player I ever saw even with the poor video resources I have had access to; so it is nice to hear from older players who can speak from first hand experience of the on court wizardry of the old guard.
I always liked & appreciated Penny Toler for her commitment to advancing the quality of my Sparks talent pool and addressing the desires of her Sparks coaches. She may lean a tad to the raw side, but she appears to be honest and very genuine in her appraisals. Theresa Weatherspoon's emotional intensity is obvious over the screen as it was obvious during her playing days. Mighty Ruthie looks like she can still do twenty pushups (or MORE!) with ease. I am looking forward to a session with Coop and Teresa Edwards if Rita can pull it off.
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Iluvacc
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| Posted: 10/23/21 5:05 pm ::: |
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| jap wrote: |
| Iluvacc wrote: |
I love these! My favorite guests have been Gail Marquis, Teresa Edwards, and Chamique Holdsclaw. Looking forward to Catch, Lynette Woodward, and Cheryl Miller.
Interesting that when talk of the greatest players come up on these episodes, none of them ever mention Lauren Jackson
Also very surprising was Holdsclaw's pick for her top 5 players
Bird
Taurasi
Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lisa Leslie
Two Uconn players
No Tenn players No Catch
Veddy interesting |
Nice take, Iluvacc! I am not sure just how surprising 'Mique's picks are. There is a scarcity of video material on the older players; so it makes sense for 'Mique to focus on those players she has actually competed with or against on court. Trying to imagine the play of the older legends based on stories told by Pat Summitt & others does not compete well with experiencing the real life athleticism and sleigh of hands magic of players you shared a court with. 'Mique played with a younger, more immature Catch who was less than the defensive monster she mutated into in the WNBA. She played with Lisa in 2006 when she came to the Sparks; so she experienced Lisa's consistent gameday intensity and allcourt play up close & personal.
I love these sessions myself because I always wanted to know how well some of the legendary older players such as Cheryl Miller, Lynnette Woodard, and Hortensia (spelling?) compared to the more modern ballers through the eyes of former players who saw the older guard compete. I tend to assume that Cheryl Miller was the best overall player I ever saw even with the poor video resources I have had access to; so it is nice to hear from older players who can speak from first hand experience of the on court wizardry of the old guard.
I always liked & appreciated Penny Toler for her commitment to advancing the quality of my Sparks talent pool and addressing the desires of her Sparks coaches. She may lean a tad to the raw side, but she appears to be honest and very genuine in her appraisals. Theresa Weatherspoon's emotional intensity is obvious over the screen as it was obvious during her playing days. Mighty Ruthie looks like she can still do twenty pushups (or MORE!) with ease. I am looking forward to a session with Coop and Teresa Edwards if Rita can pull it off. |
Now I would pay good money to see that!
I have a whole new level of respect for Penny. Although it amazes me how she can mispronounce simple names like Mabrey and Copper but enunciate Isabelle Fijakowski correctly
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 10/23/21 6:43 pm ::: |
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| Iluvacc wrote: |
| jap wrote: |
| Iluvacc wrote: |
I love these! My favorite guests have been Gail Marquis, Teresa Edwards, and Chamique Holdsclaw. Looking forward to Catch, Lynette Woodward, and Cheryl Miller.
Interesting that when talk of the greatest players come up on these episodes, none of them ever mention Lauren Jackson
Also very surprising was Holdsclaw's pick for her top 5 players
Bird
Taurasi
Cooper
Yolanda Griffith
Lisa Leslie
Two Uconn players
No Tenn players No Catch
Veddy interesting |
Nice take, Iluvacc! I am not sure just how surprising 'Mique's picks are. There is a scarcity of video material on the older players; so it makes sense for 'Mique to focus on those players she has actually competed with or against on court. Trying to imagine the play of the older legends based on stories told by Pat Summitt & others does not compete well with experiencing the real life athleticism and sleigh of hands magic of players you shared a court with. 'Mique played with a younger, more immature Catch who was less than the defensive monster she mutated into in the WNBA. She played with Lisa in 2006 when she came to the Sparks; so she experienced Lisa's consistent gameday intensity and allcourt play up close & personal.
I love these sessions myself because I always wanted to know how well some of the legendary older players such as Cheryl Miller, Lynnette Woodard, and Hortensia (spelling?) compared to the more modern ballers through the eyes of former players who saw the older guard compete. I tend to assume that Cheryl Miller was the best overall player I ever saw even with the poor video resources I have had access to; so it is nice to hear from older players who can speak from first hand experience of the on court wizardry of the old guard.
I always liked & appreciated Penny Toler for her commitment to advancing the quality of my Sparks talent pool and addressing the desires of her Sparks coaches. She may lean a tad to the raw side, but she appears to be honest and very genuine in her appraisals. Theresa Weatherspoon's emotional intensity is obvious over the screen as it was obvious during her playing days. Mighty Ruthie looks like she can still do twenty pushups (or MORE!) with ease. I am looking forward to a session with Coop and Teresa Edwards if Rita can pull it off. |
Now I would pay good money to see that!
I have a whole new level of respect for Penny. Although it amazes me how she can mispronounce simple names like Mabrey and Copper but enunciate Isabelle Fijakowski correctly |
Some people (like myself!) are just bad with names. I am always forgetting other people's names. However, I can hold onto numerical or non-linguistic patterns (like phone numbers, codes, etc.) for hours, days, weeks, months before committing them to hardcopy.
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ChicagoAnnie
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ChicagoAnnie
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scullyfu
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| Posted: 10/27/21 7:06 am ::: |
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| Milks26 wrote: |
| Cooper2009 wrote: |
| This is Gold! But I agree with what they’re saying and it saddens me. A part of why the W hasn’t grown is because the female players playing the game aren’t even watching. I’ve seen players tweet that they’d not watched a W game until they entered the league… wtf??? |
Even worse Didi Richards said that she never knew the league existed until her Baylor teammate Kalani Brown got drafted. WTF!!! Makes me wonder what these college recruiters are telling these kids on visits. |
To me, it also brings into question what the high school & college coaches aren’t exposing them to in the way of a possible future. I mean, for Baylor being a pretty big powerhouse, how many players has Kim sent to the pros that had any longevity. I know she’s not there now, but when she was the question still stands.
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Cooper2009
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| Posted: 11/05/21 7:11 pm ::: |
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Such a great episode this past week!!! So much was said and unsaid at the same time!
I hate the feeling that they really are disappointed in the overall player and potentially person Candace ended up being based on all of the episodes I e watched.
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WfanFrJmp
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| Posted: 11/06/21 12:39 am ::: |
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| Cooper2009 wrote: |
Such a great episode this past week!!! So much was said and unsaid at the same time!
I hate the feeling that they really are disappointed in the overall player and potentially person Candace ended up being based on all of the episodes I e watched. |
It is interesting. Generally, I find the show entertaining but they definitely talk about CP basically EVERY week...possibly because the viewers often ask about her. Like most #1 picks, expectations for her were high but my goodness, I don't know that any player has been the more critiqued than her in WBB circles. Is it just that they see the potential and they desire for it to be fully manifested or do they want her to be something she is not? For the most part, it feels like the consensus with the broadcast team is that she hasn't met expectations or maximized her talent because her "motor" isn't high enough (which they seem to interpret as, she doesn't work hard enough) and she doesn't take over or dominate games enough. I think they are "fans" of tough, hard nosed, physical players and I get it, but that is not who CP is.... They seem to prefer that style more than they do a finesse player, like CP. Thankfully, Ruthie typically brings some balance to the CP discussion....lol!
I have to admit, that it was odd to hear Penny's comments along the lines of her not working hard and then to also hear her say that Candace finally realized that she needed her teammates and couldn't do it all herself. Which is it Penny? Was she doing too much or not enough?  The second comment is what I recalled her doing for much of her early tenure with LA. She consistently lead her team is most categories including assists and was killing herself trying to do everything but those unbalanced rosters were not helping, Madame GM! During those years, CP wanted to be the alpha, take that last shot, etc
I think if you view CP through the same lens as others who are considered greats, most of them are scoring machines (e.g., DT, Coop, Maya) then you have your 2-way players (e.g., Catch, Swoopes) but she is and has been the personification of position-less basketball and as DT called her the most talented player she's ever played with.. CP thinks the game in a different way than some one who is a just a pure scorer, defensive stalwart, rebounding wizard or an elite passer, so what she is doing on the court looks and feels different. Is she not doing enough or does she make it look too easy at times because many have admitted that they have thought she was too passive or not engaged in certain games and then are surprised when they look at her stat line at the end of the night.... She leads the league in almost triple doubles, just in the flow of her style of play (and the fact they don't tell her that she only needs one more rebound or assist enough ) She has the ability to do all of those things depending on what is happening on the court and has to basically "choose her weapon", but sometimes it drives folks crazy because she doesn't seem active enough and you're like what on earth, lady?!! Sometimes, I've wondered how she was feeling physically and mentally during those times... I've wondered if the defense was really good (they took away what she likes to do) or she adjusted how she approached certain games because of the weight of the expectations, or trying not to do too much and the agony of some of those playoff losses (which she like many athletes, remembers more than the wins)...She even talked about kinda having to flip a switch during Game 4 and given her previous finals experiences, not passively allow Phoenix to do what they wanted to do...
I remember Catch saying to her during a WNBA roundtable that it seems like she has an "on and off" switch and if she kept the switch on, she would be unstoppable. Honestly, I don't know if a person with that type of game could go full throttle at all times but if she did Her all-time rankings are already amazing even given career setbacks (child-birth, injuries, etc), comebacks...and what some folks have deemed as an over-rated athlete, yet her accomplishments and contributions to the game and women's sports far surpasses most...
Now older, more mature and multiple surgeries later, she doesn't have the athleticism and has had to adjust her game, relying more on her IQ. Out of everything, her leadership this year was a beautiful thing! I believe and hope what Chicago accomplished this year quiets some of the talk and helps to further cement her legacy.
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ChicagoAnnie
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| Posted: 11/07/21 9:37 pm ::: |
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| WfanFrJmp wrote: |
| Cooper2009 wrote: |
Such a great episode this past week!!! So much was said and unsaid at the same time!
I hate the feeling that they really are disappointed in the overall player and potentially person Candace ended up being based on all of the episodes I e watched. |
It is interesting. Generally, I find the show entertaining but they definitely talk about CP basically EVERY week...possibly because the viewers often ask about her. Like most #1 picks, expectations for her were high but my goodness, I don't know that any player has been the more critiqued than her in WBB circles. Is it just that they see the potential and they desire for it to be fully manifested or do they want her to be something she is not? . |
In Candace's time in LA she had 7 head coaches (including Penny). What Toler fails to mention in her semi shady comments is that her fingerprint was all over those hirings, whether instructed by ownership or not. Whatever Penny is holding her tongue to say, she knows she can't because I'm sure players can fire back as some of her shortcomings too.
CP wasn't up to her high standard apparently, and on this show, is often compared to other great players who aren't as multi-dimensional. Some who don't rebound, who are not one of the league leaders in assists, and don't defend. The panel often forgets she is now 35. Rita even said in one of those episodes that CP was coasting this season, which doesn't make sense considering the Sky's record when CP was out injured. And, again 35 yrs old, running up and down the court on multi-surgery repaired knees. Were there nights in which CP was frustrating to watch? Hell yes. She would have this tired, glazed over look in her eyes, and I knew what type of game it was going to be for her. What player is "ON" every-single-game? None.
I'm glad she is out of LA. The change of scenery to complete her career has done her good.
Disclaimer: I'm a little biased considering I only starting watching the W in 2008 because of Candace. Today, I tend to root for individual players, like the NBA, I have no favorite team.
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