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Who will win this game? |
Mystics |
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60% |
[ 9 ] |
Liberty |
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40% |
[ 6 ] |
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Total Votes : 15 |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 09/17/21 8:05 pm ::: |
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I give Sabrina Ionescu the game ball. She played wonderfully when it really mattered. Although her WNBA career so far has been a struggle due to injuries, I remain VERY excited about her future on my team.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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jmvcity
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 340 Location: Big Apple
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Posted: 09/17/21 8:51 pm ::: |
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That was scary. I wouldn’t have been surprised if NY choked but glad they pulled through. Where was this defense and sense of urgency in the last 10 games?
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 09/17/21 10:40 pm ::: |
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I give Hopkins a C+ for the season. I’ll elaborate on positives later but I have like 1,000 thoughts and needed the processing time.
First. The turnovers. Laney 2021 career high turnovers per minute. Howard 2021 overwhelming career high turnovers per minute. Clarendon 2020 obliterated her career high in turnovers per minute, though she nearly matched it this year albeit with way more assists.
Even in an offense that likes to push pace where possible, some of these turnovers are fixable. I don’t feel like taking care of the ball is emphasized consistently enough to be valued. That has to change in 2022.
Also, tonight’s defensive scheme was an aggressive switching and double teaming scheme designed to take Tina out of the game and it worked. It also meant the Liberty dictated something. Not surprisingly, they withstood some punches tonight. That’s what happens when you dictate.
What analytics don’t account for is those nights where you give up easy twos. Like when Stewie is owning Laney in the post with no help. If the Liberty schemed more aggressively to cover for their size issues they’d be a better defensive team. And yes I think it’s that simple.
Anyway I’m exhausted. More tomorrow.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008 Posts: 32335
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Posted: 09/17/21 11:16 pm ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
I give Sabrina Ionescu the game ball. She played wonderfully when it really mattered. Although her WNBA career so far has been a struggle due to injuries, I remain VERY excited about her future on my team. |
In the P12 we learned to never underestimate Io. She looks deceptively slow and sometimes unorthodox, but she delivers time after time. I have every confidence she will turn out to be a good'un for y'all.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019 Posts: 4701
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Posted: 09/17/21 11:27 pm ::: |
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myrtle wrote: |
Bob Lamm wrote: |
I give Sabrina Ionescu the game ball. She played wonderfully when it really mattered. Although her WNBA career so far has been a struggle due to injuries, I remain VERY excited about her future on my team. |
In the P12 we learned to never underestimate Io. She looks deceptively slow and sometimes unorthodox, but she delivers time after time. I have every confidence she will turn out to be a good'un for y'all. |
+1. And injuries weren't the only reason why she struggled this year – it has definitely also been her learning on the job how to really be a full-time PG in the WNBA. It's already hard enough to make the transition from college to the W for PGs, and she wasn't even a full-time PG in college. It could take time, but like myrtle basically said, she'll get there.
I wonder if she'll play overseas this year, assuming she's healthy. It'd be cool to see her play in her other home country of sorts (Romania), but the pay probably is completely uncompetitive compared to the likes of the Russia League, amongst others.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18030 Location: Queens
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Posted: 09/17/21 11:37 pm ::: |
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I'm pleasantly surprised and relieved that the game didn't fall apart completely and that epic failure of a marriage proposal in the fourth quarter (where the young lady looked like someone had handed her a live tarantula and fled the scene with great haste) did not turn into an omen.
(Seriously, do not do a Jumbotron proposal unless you know they're going to say yes. And even then, hesitate. I made it perfectly clear to Happycappie that if he pulled a stunt like that, it was the best way for him to suddenly get a no.)
I thought we were going to blow it when Ariel Atkins reminded everyone that she is in fact an Olympic gold medalist and started sniping threes. But when we started applying even token defense, that was enough to cool her down.
Washington missed Mike Thibault tonight, IMO. Eric's good, but he's not tested, and he doesn't have the experience to have the knack for matchups that Mike does. Maybe a couple of different substitutions change the flow of the game. Or maybe Mike gets that technical instead of Walker-Kimbrough. (I still don't know what she did, but honestly, I don't blame her for being mad at the refs in the first half. There were a lot of bad calls in the Liberty's favor, and she was in the middle of at least two of them.)
Dear Australians for both teams: y'all are not playing rugby, please stop with the tackling.
Natasha Howard looked like the high-end free agent we cranked open the bank vault for, and I would like more of this next season, please and thank you.
I did not think we were going to keep up the intensity. I'm pleasantly surprised.
So was it "wear your random WNBA gear" day at this game and no one told me? Bear in mind, this was Mystics at Liberty. Gear spotted in the crowd: a Seattle Storm shirt, a "Sparks Nation" LA shirt, an A'ja Wilson Aces jersey, and a spectacular throwback flex of a Tamera Young Chicago Sky third jersey (the yellow one with the blue yoke).
Also spotted in the crowd: a Rebecca Allen Opals jersey and a homebrew Becky Hammon jersey (couldn't tell if it was old from before the real ones came out, or kludged together from the Pondexter giveaway). Someone may have had a T-Spoon jersey in the new style. I don't know how I feel about throwforwards.
A very satisfying way to not fuck up Fan Appreciation Night. We finished off the experience with a walk down Flatbush Avenue to Junior's. (Fam, if you need a link to that...) I did not expect the cheesesteak to be that good! I also did not expect my slice of cheesecake to still be slightly frozen in the middle! But it was still tasty.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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gpark33
Joined: 17 Oct 2005 Posts: 5116
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Posted: 09/18/21 3:11 pm ::: |
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That was a fun game to be a Lib fan. My group went to McMahon's after and I heard Sabrina was there a bit later in the night with what looked to be her family. I had to hop the train home so missed the sighting. Glad she isn't shying away from places where fans would obviously be after the game.
One of my favorite parts of being a Lib fan back in the day was running into Sue at Cubby or Tari and Tamika at ESPN Zone.
_________________ The teacher and the student.
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Lib Fan
Joined: 10 May 2005 Posts: 4593 Location: New York City
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Posted: 09/18/21 3:32 pm ::: |
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gpark33 wrote: |
That was a fun game to be a Lib fan. My group went to McMahon's after and I heard Sabrina was there a bit later in the night with what looked to be her family. I had to hop the train home so missed the sighting. Glad she isn't shying away from places where fans would obviously be after the game.
One of my favorite parts of being a Lib fan back in the day was running into Sue at Cubby or Tari and Tamika at ESPN Zone. |
or players at Cafe 31
_________________ Lets Go Liberty
Brooklyn 2021
Bring Back Maddie!
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 09/18/21 3:46 pm ::: |
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So…more thoughts. On the overall defensive concept first off. We’ve seen NY be on the slow side of incorporating double teams, fronting, trapping or doing things that smaller teams normally do defensively. The switching defensive scheme has just been incorporated more recently. It could be that they’ve opted for a less aggressive defensive approach until Howard became more acclimated and maybe their plan was to incorporate some of this sooner. We’ll never know that answer. But a few things are apparent. First in spite of the Libs’ relative lack of size, they don’t force many turnovers. They also commit an alarming amount, which when coupled with their 11th-ranked rebound percentage, probably is the reason for their just about all of their negative differential in fast break points. A small defensive team in my estimation has to have a positive turnover differential so that they have a means of dictating some form of aggressiveness that makes up for their size. I’ll give something of a pass for this being they didn’t have Howard at near 100% till late in the season.
But next year I’m not giving a pass. Even if they let Bec go they’re going to have Laney, Onyenwere, Richards and Willoughby who all fit a similar size profile. They’re going to have enough pieces to make moves that will enable them to be more balanced even if someone like Howard gets hurt.
So while I like this in-theory offense oriented system. And while I think Hopkins is smart and can potentially implement something special, next year is it. By 2015 Laimbeer had turned the Liberty around. The Liberty can draft no lower than 5. This regime will have had two first overall picks (one traded) plus another high one this year. Losing Durr was a bad break but that’s what has likely helped to enable another high pick. Next year has to be your year. Barring major injuries you have to get the job done and that’s the end of the discussion. If Sabrina is healthy next year 17 team turnovers per game cannot and will not be excused. Defensively, they have to force a good deal more than 12 per game as well.
I think this can work and I don’t think a major overhaul in philosophy is needed to make it work. But I think you can and need to schematically better suit your personnel.
It’s a make or break year next year. If it turns out to be “break” I’m going to be vocal in my displeasure.
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 09/18/21 6:59 pm ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I give Hopkins a C+ for the season. |
This is a response to your grade and your two posts.
Many crucial things that hurt the Liberty this season were in no way Walt's fault. Durr's illness. Johannes and Han not coming. Willoughby's injury. Losing Howard for a long while. Sabrina playing at less than 100% for a long while. All very unfortunate. And that was a lot for one team for any one season.
But, for me, these three things ARE Walt Hopkins' fault, either entirely or in an important way:
1. I don't believe that a WNBA team playing Rebecca Allen, Jocelyn Willoughby, or anyone that size and weight at power forward can be a top team in the league. I grant the appeal offensively, especially if (with Howard) you can have five starters who can all hit three-pointers. But defense? Rebounding? Forget it. I say: if the Liberty don't have a legitimate post player on the court WITH Natasha Howard next season then it will be another disappointing year.
2. Given all the unfortunate problems stated above, the Liberty did quite respectably in the first half of the season. Then they got WORSE. Even with Howard back and getting more comfortable with her new teammates. Even with Sabrina getting healthier and looking better. That reflects on the players, but in an important way it also reflects on Walt Hopkins. Teams should get better over time, not seriously worse.
3. Walt's postgame press conference opening on Wednesday night--"We gave up!"--was sickening and profoundly dishonest. What he really said was: "THEY gave up." He took NO responsibility. That says to me that there is something fundamentally lacking in his character.
My provisional grade: D. If New York can back into the playoffs tomorrow, win a first-round game, and advance, then I'll have to go to C minus or higher. But if Washington or Los Angeles wins tomorrow, then I'll stick with a grade of D for Walt Hopkins.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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lynxmania
Joined: 18 Feb 2011 Posts: 10697 Location: Minnesota
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18030 Location: Queens
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root_thing
Joined: 28 Apr 2007 Posts: 7365 Location: Underground
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jmvcity
Joined: 21 Jun 2013 Posts: 340 Location: Big Apple
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Posted: 09/19/21 12:09 am ::: |
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The reps sitting at the subscription table at barclays are clueless. Each time I stopped by with questions about renewal, they’re always looking for Justin, who seems to be always on the move.
I had emailed Justin in the past and have yet to get a response.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 14097
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Posted: 09/19/21 9:00 am ::: |
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Bob Lamm wrote: |
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
I give Hopkins a C+ for the season. |
This is a response to your grade and your two posts.
Many crucial things that hurt the Liberty this season were in no way Walt's fault. Durr's illness. Johannes and Han not coming. Willoughby's injury. Losing Howard for a long while. Sabrina playing at less than 100% for a long while. All very unfortunate. And that was a lot for one team for any one season.
But, for me, these three things ARE Walt Hopkins' fault, either entirely or in an important way:
1. I don't believe that a WNBA team playing Rebecca Allen, Jocelyn Willoughby, or anyone that size and weight at power forward can be a top team in the league. I grant the appeal offensively, especially if (with Howard) you can have five starters who can all hit three-pointers. But defense? Rebounding? Forget it. I say: if the Liberty don't have a legitimate post player on the court WITH Natasha Howard next season then it will be another disappointing year.
2. Given all the unfortunate problems stated above, the Liberty did quite respectably in the first half of the season. Then they got WORSE. Even with Howard back and getting more comfortable with her new teammates. Even with Sabrina getting healthier and looking better. That reflects on the players, but in an important way it also reflects on Walt Hopkins. Teams should get better over time, not seriously worse.
3. Walt's postgame press conference opening on Wednesday night--"We gave up!"--was sickening and profoundly dishonest. What he really said was: "THEY gave up." He took NO responsibility. That says to me that there is something fundamentally lacking in his character.
My provisional grade: D. If New York can back into the playoffs tomorrow, win a first-round game, and advance, then I'll have to go to C minus or higher. But if Washington or Los Angeles wins tomorrow, then I'll stick with a grade of D for Walt Hopkins. |
I agree with a lot of this. The team especially should have gotten better with Howard and a progressively healthy Sabrina and not worse.
The one area I think could have helped defensively and rebounding would have been Willoughby. She’s 180 pounds and a much physically stronger player than either Allen or Onyenwere, who I actually expected too much of defensively.
But, that said, it’s not ideal to have those be your 4 spot options regardless, in terms of depth. Maybe it’s possible they planned to play Howard and Shook together more but didn’t feel they had the practice time to implement that approach, I don’t know.
But regardless of all that, if we take a step back and look at this as more of a developmental year, then it’s probably imperative to balance out the team better rather than risk this for philosophy not working next season.
Possibilities abound for improving the team via the draft, free agency and trade.
Here’s one Root and I have discussed. How about Onyenwere for Hebard? Chicago is deep in the post and reuniting Hebard and Sabrina would be an obvious incentive.
If the Liberty win the lottery, I think I’d also work to try to pry Sabally from Dallas if possible (same principle). Or else they’d draft Howard. Who, while not an ideal PF, would be 6’2” 180 and give you someone who’d improve the rebounding and defense. Nalyssa Smith is a 6’2” PF with serious offensive skill. Austin is an athletic 6’5” post. All of these players would represent major upgrades to a form of team need while adding to the talent base.
Myesha Hines-Allen is an attainable free agent as well.
There’s lots of avenues toward improvement. I don’t want to continuously hear the words “development” or “process” next season. The team has preached development for two years. By next year they should have commodities that improve the team either by their own presence or trade.
We’ve also seen how an undersized team gets officiated. For example Howard was switched onto Zellous, posting up on one play. Zellous has her arm wrapped around Howard. Textbook foul no call.
The very next possession Sabrina is switched on Tina, bodies her cleanly with no arm usage and gets whistled.
So, if being undersized means calls automatically go against you, then you have to have more size I guess. It is what it is. But you can’t be 11th in rebound percentage, -100 in free throw attempts and -4 or -5 in turnovers and still win.
If the team still remains this imbalanced and disparate in the above statistical categories next season, well…😡
_________________ The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010 Posts: 5065 Location: New York City
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Posted: 09/19/21 10:52 am ::: |
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NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
But, that said, it’s not ideal to have those be your 4 spot options regardless, in terms of depth. Maybe it’s possible they planned to play Howard and Shook together more but didn’t feel they had the practice time to implement that approach, I don’t know.
But regardless of all that, if we take a step back and look at this as more of a developmental year, then it’s probably imperative to balance out the team better rather than risk this for philosophy not working next season.
So, if being undersized means calls automatically go against you, then you have to have more size I guess. It is what it is. But you can’t be 11th in rebound percentage, -100 in free throw attempts and -4 or -5 in turnovers and still win.
If the team still remains this imbalanced and disparate in the above statistical categories next season, well…😡 |
Yes to all this and the rest of what you wrote, including your ideas for roster moves.
_________________ Remember Roe v. Wade. Work for and support legal abortion all over the world and full reproductive rights for everyone.
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