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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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 Posted: 09/03/21 2:18 pm ::: |
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Hopkins explaining his system after the 2020 draft.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3ARZardWg7g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 09/03/21 3:12 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
Hopkins explaining his system after the 2020 draft.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3ARZardWg7g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
It's painful to watch this. It runs two minutes and 42 seconds, which is about as much as I could have coped with.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 09/03/21 3:17 pm ::: |
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Laney is definitely weary. She’s being asked to do too much. The Liberty had a nice stretch of six games in a row that Howard had played where they averaged 84 ppg. Since then we’ve seen some really bad offense.
It’s true that also NY asks its guards to rebound a lot which can induce fatigue.
Spacing the floor and forcing teams to run should fatigue opponents too though. When bigger players have to chase more mobile ones they should also get tired.
And Howard and Laney signed as free agents knowing the system, the philosophy and the potential for having to play small ball. If they’re in any way frustrated by it, well, it’s what they signed up for in the first place.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 09/03/21 3:20 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
Hopkins explaining his system after the 2020 draft.
<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3ARZardWg7g" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
It's painful to watch this. It runs two minutes and 42 seconds, which is about as much as I could have coped with. |
The key quote is that 4s will be utilized as 3s to space the floor. It’s harder to space the floor when teams let Onyenwere and/or Shook shoot from 3.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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| Posted: 09/03/21 3:47 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| The key quote is that 4s will be utilized as 3s to space the floor. It’s harder to space the floor when teams let Onyenwere and/or Shook shoot from 3. |
I had a different reaction. For me, what was crucial about this 2020 video was Hopkins admitting that people, perhaps including Rebecca Allen, may wonder about how the Liberty's 3s will guard bigger, traditional 4s. And he says, smiling and pointedly avoiding specifics, "We've got plans for that!"
OK, Walt, we've had two seasons to see those brilliant plans for a problem that many worried about here right from the beginning. Seems fair to say we haven't seen those plans convincingly executed.
P.S. He includes Jaz Jones among those players he can imagine sliding over to the 4 spot. Really? I'm not even convinced Jaz can work at 3. What was he thinking?
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 09/03/21 4:33 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| The key quote is that 4s will be utilized as 3s to space the floor. It’s harder to space the floor when teams let Onyenwere and/or Shook shoot from 3. |
I had a different reaction. For me, what was crucial about this 2020 video was Hopkins admitting that people, perhaps including Rebecca Allen, may wonder about how the Liberty's 3s will guard bigger, traditional 4s. And he says, smiling and pointedly avoiding specifics, "We've got plans for that!"
OK, Walt, we've had two seasons to see those brilliant plans for a problem that many worried about here right from the beginning. Seems fair to say we haven't seen those plans convincingly executed.
P.S. He includes Jaz Jones among those players he can imagine sliding over to the 4 spot. Really? I'm not even convinced Jaz can work at 3. What was he thinking? |
Yeah. To yours and Roots points that’s 100% true. My thought was, and still is that they could overcome the lack of size with a more aggressive defensive philosophy. One that involves more double teaming and less of playing in back of post players.
I think we are all bothered by the same thing but in different ways. I had assumed at the time that they would scheme to prevent those shots. If Laney is playing behind Stewie and she’s 5 feet from the basket, you may as well give her the two points. I’m not going to get into if all 9 of Stewie’s free throws were fouls or why players like Te’a Cooper, Sue Bird, Jewel Loyd and Katie Lou Samuelson are allowed to foul Laney when she has a physical advantage. But whatever the case, there are ways to play the way they play and defend. NBA teams who play small can still win and Howard is as good an athlete as there is at the position.
Where I think the Liberty go wrong is that they seem content to give up easy baskets because they’re 2s. That part of their philosophy I do not like. And that’s where I think Root’s point comes into play. If you’re going to just bang with bigger players from behind, it’s not only a waste of energy relative to the outcome, but it’s allowing the opponent to dictate to you. That wears you down, and really for nothing. Why fight players from behind? It’s a useless waste of effort, when the effort could be applied to using their defensive quickness more effectively in the paint. I thought when they were aggressive with Stewie in the second quarter they were way better defensively.
And yeah when they doubled Stewie in the first half she made some great passes. But at least Seattle had to work for their offense. The Liberty were dictating in the first half. They were also winning. Maybe the size thing can’t be overcome. But they’re also not doing stuff schematically to help their cause in that area with any consistency. And that’s annoying.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 09/03/21 4:45 pm ::: |
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Myles Ehrlich on Twitter:
Hopkins "In terms of the stress, it's the same as it's been in terms of our group looking not just at a performance-based mindset, but a growth-based mindset... it's never as good as it looks when you win, never as bad as it looks when you lose.“
https://twitter.com/mylesehrlich/status/1433648607765348352?s=21
Geoff Magliochetti on Twitter:
Hopkins: "Losing sucks, losing, losing is awful. It's cancerous. This group has maintained a real desire to continue to grow, and they understand that it's about more than one season one game."
https://twitter.com/geoffjmags/status/1433647208579182596?s=21
Two more quotes that endorse a growth mindset. Not that there’s anything wrong with a growth mindset. But does this sound like a coach who doesn’t think he has another year?
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/03/21 4:47 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| The other thing I would point out is that when you play small, you have to expend more energy to compensate. You see it all the time in the college ranks when a midmajor team is able to keep up with a P5 team for a while by hustling like crazy. Eventually, they burn out. It can explain why the Liberty often play well in the 1st Quarter or even for a half before fading in the 2nd Half -- especially the 4th Quarter. That constantly scrambling, switching defense requires more energy. Fighting for position against bigger people requires more energy. Mixing it up -- sometimes playing ball denial, other times playing behind or to the side -- figuring that out requires more concentration and mental effort. So, now you're exerting more energy mentally as well as physically. When you go on the offensive end, fatigue can affect your shooting. The mental fatigue also affects your decision-making. So, if you're wondering why good shooters suddenly can't shoot or why people continually make dumb passes to no one, I think weariness has to be part of the answer. And after a season of having to do this game after game, you can see why players might start to wonder when will this all end? |
This makes the interchangeability of the roster make more sense, but by the same token, if we're running that kind of defense, we need to be subbing way more frequently to keep the energy levels up. And I'm not sure we're seeing that.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
Joined: 28 May 2007
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| Posted: 09/03/21 5:13 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| The other thing I would point out is that when you play small, you have to expend more energy to compensate. You see it all the time in the college ranks when a midmajor team is able to keep up with a P5 team for a while by hustling like crazy. Eventually, they burn out. It can explain why the Liberty often play well in the 1st Quarter or even for a half before fading in the 2nd Half -- especially the 4th Quarter. That constantly scrambling, switching defense requires more energy. Fighting for position against bigger people requires more energy. Mixing it up -- sometimes playing ball denial, other times playing behind or to the side -- figuring that out requires more concentration and mental effort. So, now you're exerting more energy mentally as well as physically. When you go on the offensive end, fatigue can affect your shooting. The mental fatigue also affects your decision-making. So, if you're wondering why good shooters suddenly can't shoot or why people continually make dumb passes to no one, I think weariness has to be part of the answer. And after a season of having to do this game after game, you can see why players might start to wonder when will this all end? |
This makes the interchangeability of the roster make more sense, but by the same token, if we're running that kind of defense, we need to be subbing way more frequently to keep the energy levels up. And I'm not sure we're seeing that. |
I think the roster needs an in-between player badly. I understand why Root has pinpointed Austin as a player of interest. If they can turn DiDi into someone who can make open threes I don’t see why Austin can’t do it. Austin is a better shooter from midrange than DiDi was as a college senior. That would enable Howard to move to the 4 spot. But the question is, would that mean they’d be reluctant to fluctuate between conventional and small-ball lineups? Walt has already stated that he’s not comfortable doing that now.
But if that’s not their direction of choice, I think adding versatility at 6’2 or 6’3” is your benchmark. This way you don’t have ridiculously short players defending the 4 spot and you can increase the versatility of your own offense at the same time.
In a world where she is available and they want each other, Hines-Allen to NY is a very logical fit. If you get a player of a similar size/athleticism benchmark in the draft to develop in the manner they’re trying to develop DiDi, then I think you’re really onto something.
Also, if they are able to add more talent in free agency, sooner or later there’s going to be tradeable commodities here too. I know I’ve said it for two years and Covid/injuries/Olympics have interfered. But they’re getting closer to a point where they’ll have a roster that has quality players who will be underutilized. As that happens, who knows how creative they might get?
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/03/21 6:01 pm ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| Two more quotes that endorse a growth mindset. Not that there’s anything wrong with a growth mindset. But does this sound like a coach who doesn’t think he has another year? |
Yes, it indeed sounds like Walt Hopkins thinks he has at least one more year to implement his plans with the Liberty. But he wouldn't be the first coach in the WNBA or anywhere else who thought he had another year but discovered they were wrong. Indeed, even if Jonathan Kolb has been giving Walt the impression that he has another year, that doesn't mean it'll work out that way.
We'll see. I have no prediction. I'm really not in favor of him being brought back--or if him being fired. I'm neutral; I just don't believe he's safe. Especially if the Liberty lose the next three games and don't make the playoffs.
Also worth noting: if Walt's job is indeed in question, if New York finishes eighth and especially if the Liberty win a first round game, that could perhaps be decisive.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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| Posted: 09/03/21 6:28 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Yes, it indeed sounds like Walt Hopkins thinks he has at least one more year to implement his plans with the Liberty. But he wouldn't be the first coach in the WNBA or anywhere else who thought he had another year but discovered they were wrong. Indeed, even if Jonathan Kolb has been giving Walt the impression that he has another year, that doesn't mean it'll work out that way. |
That’s where one would hope exit interviews with the players would play a decent-sized role in a GM determining how to go about handling the coach if they’re on the fence about it. If the players at this point still don’t believe in Hop’s vision for the team (such as the undersized forwards who have to go out there & get handled by players bigger & taller than them on a nightly basis), fundamental changes imo become necessary.
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/03/21 6:55 pm ::: |
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Quote="Stormeo: That’s where one would hope exit interviews with the players would play a decent-sized role in a GM determining how to go about handling the coach if they’re on the fence about it. If the players at this point still don’t believe in Hop’s vision for the team (such as the undersized forwards who have to go out there & get handled by players bigger & taller than them on a nightly basis), fundamental changes imo become necessary.[/quote]
Do you assume that players (or any employees anywhere) will be honest in exit interviews like these? I definitely don't. Jonathan Kolb hired Walt Hopkins. Everyone knows that. Is player X going to say "Sorry, but I believe Walt's got it all wrong?" Is undersized forward X going to ask: "How can you possibly think I can defend taller, bulkier forwards with longer wing spans?"
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 09/03/21 9:09 pm ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| Stormeo wrote: |
| That’s where one would hope exit interviews with the players would play a decent-sized role in a GM determining how to go about handling the coach if they’re on the fence about it. If the players at this point still don’t believe in Hop’s vision for the team (such as the undersized forwards who have to go out there & get handled by players bigger & taller than them on a nightly basis), fundamental changes imo become necessary. |
Do you assume that players (or any employees anywhere) will be honest in exit interviews like these? I definitely don't. Jonathan Kolb hired Walt Hopkins. Everyone knows that. Is player X going to say "Sorry, but I believe Walt's got it all wrong?" Is undersized forward X going to ask: "How can you possibly think I can defend taller, bulkier forwards with longer wing spans?" |
Regarding employees anywhere, certainly every situation is different, so I can't comment on a generalization like that.
To be clear, what I'm saying is, if any GM were on the fence about keeping their head coach, then they should consult with at least the core players, whom they theoretically would want to keep happy to prevent them from wanting to leave. Ask the right questions, whatever they may be, while allowing the players to be comfortable. These players understand that this is all a business. Players on a team that wasn't doing well for a semi-prolonged period of time would know that their coach is someone potentially on the chopping block. If the players want to answer the GM's questions in ways that maybe even go out of their way to defend their coach, the GM should know what that means. If the players are more honest at least about the hardships of the season, even without throwing their coach under the bus, the GM should know what to do with that as well. And any dose of unadulterated honesty out of any player, perhaps mixed with emotion, is imo a bonus. 
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root_thing
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Randy
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Bob Lamm
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| Posted: 09/04/21 2:41 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Just parroting the coach is the "safe" answer. All the more reason such interviews are pointless. |
Agreed.
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