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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8946
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 02/11/21 8:35 pm ::: Re: Valparaiso University Retires Crusader Mascot |
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This is stupid. Give me a break already.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5155 Location: Carson City
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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ucbart
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 2815 Location: New York
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66907 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 02/12/21 11:52 am ::: Re: Valparaiso University Retires Crusader Mascot |
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ucbart wrote: |
I wish people would put half as much energy into the homeless people that live in the parking garage across the street from my apartment as they do nonsense like this. |
That would require people to actually inconvenience themselves. Maybe even spend their time and money helping another person. It's much easier to fight these symbolic battles.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18030 Location: Queens
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Posted: 02/14/21 12:22 pm ::: |
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Yeah, so after reading the article, part of why they're doing it is that the imagery has been appropriated by the KKK, so I kinda get why they're doing it.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15737 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 02/14/21 9:20 pm ::: |
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Being of Lutheran heritage (as is Valpo) I'm not exactly dismayed. The Crusades, as they stand on their own, were an ISIS-like movement, with the Muslim/Christian roles reversed.
The term, "They're on a crusade" can have implications that are positive: being driven, highly motivated to accomplish a goal, etc.
That said, I'd agree that this depth of Cancel Culture is absurd, when (yes!) there are REAL problems all around us that are more pressing.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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willtalk
Joined: 13 Apr 2012 Posts: 1093 Location: NorCal
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Posted: 02/16/21 9:11 am ::: |
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Howee wrote: |
Being of Lutheran heritage (as is Valpo) I'm not exactly dismayed. The Crusades, as they stand on their own, were an ISIS-like movement, with the Muslim/Christian roles reversed.
...... |
It appears you totally bought in to the prevaricative spin that the agenda driven ani west culture has sucdcessfully employed. It might help to have less of a microspect perspective of history on that subject raiher being more inclusive of cause and effect
.
_________________ No one one is ever as good as their best game, nor as bad as their worst.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 02/16/21 1:24 pm ::: |
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Before YouTube censors the very first cartoon ever made specifically for television, here it is. TRIGGER WARNING: This cartoon may traumatize a generation of emotionally, intellectually and culturally fragile safe-spacers.
<iframe width="480" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/C3hHQvkUhJo" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe> |
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15737 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 02/16/21 4:58 pm ::: |
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I urge academics, atheists and and other "progressives" to eradicate Billy Graham from American and world history.
Over 58 years, Graham conducted 417 evangelistic rallies in 187 countries on six continents. He, and his obviously white supremacist media lackeys, called these events CRUSADES.
The more than 200,000 million who attended Billy Graham Crusades were obviously aligned with the KKK, particularly the 3.2 million who attended the 1973 crusade in South Korea.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18030 Location: Queens
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Posted: 02/16/21 5:22 pm ::: |
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Some of the arguments being made here are... not persuasive, or at least not persuasive in the manner in which their makers intend. And some perhaps indicate that they are unaware of the concerns raised in the linked article.
_________________ Ardent believer in the separation of church and stadium.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8227 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 02/16/21 5:43 pm ::: |
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And while we're at it, let's cancel the 50+ year Crusade Against Cancer, which, in the persuasive rhetoric of Valpariaiso, "has connections to violence and hate groups, does not represent its core values."
The hate group connections to the Crusade Against Cancer are particularly virulent, because they are 1200 years more recent than the connections to the medieval Crusades. Even worse, this hate group conspiracy movement has involved the U.S. post office, which issued a non-core value stamp . . .
. . .
and has obviously even hoodwinked black people into the omnipresent KKK . . .
Down the Orwellian memory hole with all of it. All of them. And . . . next . . . all of you. |
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005 Posts: 11147
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Posted: 02/16/21 6:07 pm ::: |
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Howee wrote: |
willtalk wrote: |
Howee wrote: |
Being of Lutheran heritage (as is Valpo) I'm not exactly dismayed. The Crusades, as they stand on their own, were an ISIS-like movement, with the Muslim/Christian roles reversed.
...... |
It appears you totally bought in to the prevaricative spin that the agenda driven ani west culture has sucdcessfully employed. It might help to have less of a microspect perspective of history on that subject raiher being more inclusive of cause and effect. |
Well, mayhaps you might care to ENLIGHTEN us as to just how the Crusades were a force for Good. Double Dare ya! |
OK ... so the Crusades were an invasion of the Muslim world cloaked in piety. It was no different than the Muslim invasion of the Christian world 400 years earlier, which was also cloaked in piety. (One can argue about the sincerity of the religious motivations of the invaders on both sides ...)
Now of course just because Johnny was bad in the sandbox doesn't mean it's OK for Julie to be bad in the sandbox, but there is a certain symmetry here.
On to the actual question: The Crusades were an enormous kick start to the Europe, and to a lesser extent, the Arab world.
The economic benefits to both are pretty clear, as increased trade (especially in spices) were a positive to both societies.
The intellectual benefits traveled mainly east to west, but the infusion of classical literature and philosophy into the West had an enormous and lasting impact. To a much lesser degree, the Arab world did gain access to knowledge and ideas it did not possess.
The cultural benefits for both sides were ongoing, as the interchange between the two sides took place on the common ground of the Levant, and continued unabated thereafter.
To be clear, I am not arguing that the Crusades were a wholly, or even primarily, a positive, beneficial event, but there were clear economic, cultural and intellectual outcomes that moved the world towards a better place. And though certainly one invasion does not justify the next, there is that piece to consider as well.
_________________ Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15737 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 02/16/21 6:12 pm ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I urge academics, atheists and and other "progressives" to eradicate Billy Graham from American and world history. |
How sweet THAT'D be
Otherwise, yer in *absurdist* mode again.
A word in itself is harmless. When it becomes the appellation by which we define the perpetrators of a horribly evil geo-political era, then yeah....Valpo can do exactly what they want.
ClayK wrote: |
To be clear, I am not arguing that the Crusades were a wholly, or even primarily, a positive, beneficial event, but there were clear economic, cultural and intellectual outcomes that moved the world towards a better place. And though certainly one invasion does not justify the next, there is that piece to consider as well. |
There were lots of positives that came from WW2, right? Innovations in military technology, etc., etc. Ask the citizens of Hiroshima.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8946
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TechDawgMc
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Posts: 401 Location: Temple, TX
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Posted: 08/11/21 12:36 pm ::: |
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I have mixed feelings here. I work at a university whose mascot is "Crusaders". Although we do use a knight as a reference, the name is more closely tied to the other uses of the word Crusade that are mentioned here. I'm not enthusiastic about the pressure to change things that are mostly well intentioned.
Having said that, I've actually been one of the ones pushing--very quietly--that we should change our mascot. Primarily, I would change it because of our student travel. We take students all over the world doing projects for business, nursing, education. The name Crusader borders on being a cuss word in some of those areas. I don't think the tradition is worth the risk.
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Youth Coach
Joined: 23 Mar 2008 Posts: 4760
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Posted: 08/11/21 2:04 pm ::: |
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Is it me or does it seem like every time a team name change happens, the new name is always some lame ass sounding name? |
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011 Posts: 2819 Location: Indiana
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Posted: 08/11/21 4:26 pm ::: |
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Youth Coach wrote: |
Is it me or does it seem like every time a team name change happens, the new name is always some lame ass sounding name? |
Trying to find a name that hopefully no one can find the least bit offensive in any way.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15737 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 08/11/21 6:15 pm ::: |
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purduefanatic wrote: |
Youth Coach wrote: |
Is it me or does it seem like every time a team name change happens, the new name is always some lame ass sounding name? |
Trying to find a name that hopefully no one can find the least bit offensive in any way. |
Well, *I* personally think "Boilermakers" oughtta be slashed....boilers are potentially dangerous things, no? ( ) Of course, the "Fighting Irish", depicted by a height-challenged person, might be the next target.
There are a lot of them, actually....Cardinal, Ducks, Blue Hose, Billikens.....I think the "Beacons" aren't too bad, considering their logic.
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
Last edited by Howee on 08/11/21 8:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012 Posts: 5423
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15737 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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TechDawgMc
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 Posts: 401 Location: Temple, TX
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15737 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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