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Hoopsmom
Joined: 05 Apr 2017
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 Posted: 02/01/21 9:09 pm ::: |
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| Now, what will they do after tonight‘s game? Will NC State move back up? Or will Louisville just move down, and UConn or somebody else move up? I would assume NC State will move up, but I know assuming never right in this league...
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linkster
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 02/01/21 9:10 pm ::: |
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How do the conferences fare in the week 11 poll?
Giving 25 points for the #1 ranking down to one point for the #25 ranking, the conferences' total points are below. (The numbers in parentheses are the conferences' total points in the prior three weeks' polls.)
SEC = 24+19+11+10+8+2+1 = 75 (73) (77) (78)
P12 = 21+20+17+14 = 72 (72) (70) (75)
B10 = 16+15+13+9+4 = 57 (58) (58) (53)
ACC = 25+22 = 47 (49) (52) (49)
BEC = 23+6 = 29 (32) (31) (29)
B12 = 18+5 = 23 (19) (19) (25)
AAC = 12 (13) (12) (10)
WCC = 7 (8) (6) (6)
SUM = 3 (1) |
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 02/02/21 2:26 am ::: |
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| Hoopsmom wrote: |
| Now, what will they do after tonight‘s game? Will NC State move back up? Or will Louisville just move down, and UConn or somebody else move up? I would assume NC State will move up, but I know assuming never right in this league... |
I expect tomorrow's Coaches poll will have 1) South Carolina, 2) NC St, 3) Connecticut 4) Louisville.
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taropatch
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
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| Posted: 02/02/21 3:08 am ::: |
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| calbearman76 wrote: |
| Hoopsmom wrote: |
| Now, what will they do after tonight‘s game? Will NC State move back up? Or will Louisville just move down, and UConn or somebody else move up? I would assume NC State will move up, but I know assuming never right in this league... |
I expect tomorrow's Coaches poll will have 1) South Carolina, 2) NC St, 3) Connecticut 4) Louisville. |
That's what next Monday's AP poll will look like unless any of these four decide to stumble again by the time Super Sunday is over.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 02/02/21 4:14 pm ::: |
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| calbearman76 wrote: |
| Hoopsmom wrote: |
| Now, what will they do after tonight‘s game? Will NC State move back up? Or will Louisville just move down, and UConn or somebody else move up? I would assume NC State will move up, but I know assuming never right in this league... |
I expect tomorrow's Coaches poll will have 1) South Carolina, 2) NC St, 3) Connecticut 4) Louisville. |
yeah, but to me it doesn't make sense since NC State beat SoCaro on their home court and their only loss was in the absence of their best player. The reason it's SoCaro on top is just because of the polls being stagnant, so the tendency is to not actually use a brain, but just move teams a bit up or a bit down based on where they already are. A team that beats two #1's should be #1.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 02/02/21 4:27 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| calbearman76 wrote: |
| Hoopsmom wrote: |
| Now, what will they do after tonight‘s game? Will NC State move back up? Or will Louisville just move down, and UConn or somebody else move up? I would assume NC State will move up, but I know assuming never right in this league... |
I expect tomorrow's Coaches poll will have 1) South Carolina, 2) NC St, 3) Connecticut 4) Louisville. |
yeah, but to me it doesn't make sense since NC State beat SoCaro on their home court and their only loss was in the absence of their best player. The reason it's SoCaro on top is just because of the polls being stagnant, so the tendency is to not actually use a brain, but just move teams a bit up or a bit down based on where they already are. A team that beats two #1's should be #1. |
Completely agree. S Carolina will be No. 1, but to me NCST pretty obviously should be.
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Howee
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myrtle
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Conway Gamecock
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| Posted: 02/02/21 8:43 pm ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| A team that beats two #1's should be #1. |
Definitely. And no poll should reflect that moreso than the Coaches' Poll, imo: they oughtta know better.
At least UConn got righteously bumped down for their loss.
One team that puzzles me is USF....I don't follow them much, but it seems like they only have one signature win (MS St, when they were ranked in the top 10), and nothing else of significance. Are they really better than an Arkansas, Tennessee, or Indiana?  |
But here is your logic put to work: Louisville WAS #1 until they lost to NC State. Until their game with the 'Pack, THEY had only one signature win (#20 ranked DePaul) - I guess Syracuse might have been 24th or 25th when they played, but Syracuse had no wins against ranked opponents at the time, and had already lost to unranked UNC when they lost to UL. NC State was BY far the best-caliber opponent the Cardinals played all season, and they lost badly to them in the 2nd half.
You yourself stated above, "no poll should reflect that moreso than the Coaches' Poll, imo: they oughtta know better".
Well, maybe they do. As coaches, they know that a team that is ranked high, plays their schedule and doesn't lose, while those ranked above them fall by the wayside, SHOULDN'T fall down the slippery slope of rankings. If their schedule strength is SOOO bad, then why were they ranked so high to begin with in the preseason, right?
But the coaches ALSO knew, that UL hasn't been playing anyone - you can make the argument of a decent-strength conference where all the teams beat up on each other to make it look stronger - that argument has been made all the time by CT fans who enjoy watching their own team constantly win in-conference by 40-50 pts every time out, and then have to try to justify that they do that just because their team is that good - but the ACC is chock full of 8-7, 7-7, and 7-8 teams that do not incite the emotions right now.
Maybe the coaches decided to review that schedule strength of UL's today, and decided that maybe UL ISN'T #1 material, and therefore NC State's win over them isn't of the caliber of some teams beating OTHER #1 teams that were #1 material........
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myrtle
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Conway Gamecock
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| Posted: 02/03/21 12:46 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
that IMO is pretty convoluted thinking Conway. And even if Louis' didn't deserve a #1 (and I agree they've pretty much lucked out in a bunch of close games), what is your excuse for NCState beating SoCaro at SoCaro? Are you saying that SoCaro didn't deserve to be #1 at the time, therefore NCState hasn't beaten any #1's?  |
Wow....speaking of convoluted thinking.
I think NC State is just as deserving of #1 as anybody, and right now they do have the argument of beating who the Coaches already have at #1. So what makes you think I even HAVE an excuse for NC State beating USC?
And while I actually didn't think USC played as well as the #1 team should've played early on - they, like Louisville benefited from preseason positioning and until they lost, they didn't lose ground - they have been playing improved since then against the toughest schedule in the nation, even without playing Oregon or Maryland like they originally planned.
The SEC is once again leading all other conferences in every ratings metric - NET, RPI, SOS, ELO - and the Gamecocks are undefeated in conference play, so perhaps that is valued by the coaches of WCBB. I know that Charlie Creme has had USC as the overall #1 Seed in his bracketology since mid January, so perhaps he and the coaches are seeing the same things.....
Last edited by Conway Gamecock on 02/03/21 1:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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| Posted: 02/03/21 1:38 am ::: |
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No.
It's really much simpler than all that contorted logic: NC State (@#4) beat the #1 team, and also previously beat the #2 team ranked ahead of them. They deserve #1, even if for a brief time.
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Conway Gamecock
Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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| Posted: 02/03/21 1:48 am ::: |
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| Howee wrote: |
No.
It's really much simpler than all that contorted logic: NC State (@#4) beat the #1 team, and also previously beat the #2 team ranked ahead of them. They deserve #1, even if for a brief time. |
So you think then that Colorado should be the #1 team albeit for just a moment or two, because they beat #1 Stanford??
Tennessee has beaten Indiana, Kentucky, AND Arkansas, and they are ranked behind all 3 of those teams.......in BOTH polls. They have fewer losses as well as all 3 of those teams....
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Howee
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| Posted: 02/03/21 9:38 am ::: |
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| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| Howee wrote: |
No.
It's really much simpler than all that contorted logic: NC State (@#4) beat the #1 team, and also previously beat the #2 team ranked ahead of them. They deserve #1, even if for a brief time. |
So you think then that Colorado should be the #1 team albeit for just a moment or two, because they beat #1 Stanford?? |
Yes. For just an hour or so. 
No, from my limited perspective, there's a significant qualitative difference between an unranked team pulling off an upset and a #4 having beaten BOTH #1 & #2 to leapfrog those teams.
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| Tennessee has beaten Indiana, Kentucky, AND Arkansas, and they are ranked behind all 3 of those teams.......in BOTH polls. They have fewer losses as well as all 3 of those teams.... |
I'd AGREE about that inequity. But -- we all know -- this ranking stuff becomes less of a 'science' and more of a dartboard toss, with little impact on the season's final outcome.
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Shades
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| Posted: 02/03/21 11:06 am ::: |
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| South Carolina doesn’t have a bad loss. NCSU had a bad one recently against Virginia Tech. Hard to stomach NCSU at #1 after that. Sure, they had excuses for losing, but excuses don’t make a #1.
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Hoops9092
Joined: 04 Nov 2008
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| Posted: 02/03/21 2:09 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| South Carolina doesn’t have a bad loss. NCSU had a bad one recently against Virginia Tech. Hard to stomach NCSU at #1 after that. Sure, they had excuses for losing, but excuses don’t make a #1. |
This is my thought as well. While NC State beat South Carolina, at the end of the day both teams have 1 loss and South Carolina's 1 loss is to the #2 tema in the county. NC State's is to a sub . 500 team.
Same reason for UCLA being ahead of Stanford in the poll, despite Stanford having more top wins, they have the ugly loss to Colorado, whereas UCLA has 2 losses to top 10 teams.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 02/03/21 5:49 pm ::: |
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| Hoops9092 wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| South Carolina doesn’t have a bad loss. NCSU had a bad one recently against Virginia Tech. Hard to stomach NCSU at #1 after that. Sure, they had excuses for losing, but excuses don’t make a #1. |
This is my thought as well. While NC State beat South Carolina, at the end of the day both teams have 1 loss and South Carolina's 1 loss is to the #2 tema in the county. NC State's is to a sub . 500 team.
Same reason for UCLA being ahead of Stanford in the poll, despite Stanford having more top wins, they have the ugly loss to Colorado, whereas UCLA has 2 losses to top 10 teams. |
So would y'all feel the same way if SoCaro lost a game against Miss State with Boston out? I think Conway would be changing his tone. Yeah it's a team game, but at least in the past if a key piece were missing when tournament time came, that team would get a much worse slot than if their team was whole. To me it's the same thing. Cunane is by far their most important player so call it an 'excuse' if you want, but to me it's a damned good one. Stanford OTOH really has no good excuse for losing to Colorado.
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linkster
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| Posted: 02/03/21 10:54 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| South Carolina doesn’t have a bad loss. NCSU had a bad one recently against Virginia Tech. Hard to stomach NCSU at #1 after that. Sure, they had excuses for losing, but excuses don’t make a #1. |
They also have 2 far better wins than any of S Car.'s. SC has an impressive record but to claim you should be higher than NCSt you need a win over UConn.
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Conway Gamecock
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| Posted: 02/04/21 4:04 am ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| South Carolina doesn’t have a bad loss. NCSU had a bad one recently against Virginia Tech. Hard to stomach NCSU at #1 after that. Sure, they had excuses for losing, but excuses don’t make a #1. |
They also have 2 far better wins than any of S Car.'s. SC has an impressive record but to claim you should be higher than NCSt you need a win over UConn. |
Same argument as the head-to-head versus overall strength of schedule. Minus those "2 far better wins", the rest of NC State's wins are over opponents with a combined record of 56-54. Yes, 56-54. That's mediocre. WITH those 2 wins, their wins are over opponents with a combined record of 86-56, which is better, except......
South Carolina's 14 wins are against a combined opponent record of 126-64. Even minus our top 2 winning-est opponents we've beaten - Gonzaga and Kentucky - the combined record would be 97-58, which would STILL be a better opposing schedule than what NC State has played INCLUDING their "2 far better wins". I think that's what the Coach's pollsters are looking at.
And Charlie Creme doesn't disagree with them - he's had South Carolina as his overall #1 Seed since the middle of January - AFTER USC had lost to NC State, and back when Louisville, NC State, AND your Connecticut were all undefeated. This isn't exactly a rare opinion.....
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linkster
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| Posted: 02/04/21 2:16 pm ::: |
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| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| South Carolina doesn’t have a bad loss. NCSU had a bad one recently against Virginia Tech. Hard to stomach NCSU at #1 after that. Sure, they had excuses for losing, but excuses don’t make a #1. |
They also have 2 far better wins than any of S Car.'s. SC has an impressive record but to claim you should be higher than NCSt you need a win over UConn. |
Same argument as the head-to-head versus overall strength of schedule. Minus those "2 far better wins", the rest of NC State's wins are over opponents with a combined record of 56-54. Yes, 56-54. That's mediocre. WITH those 2 wins, their wins are over opponents with a combined record of 86-56, which is better, except......
South Carolina's 14 wins are against a combined opponent record of 126-64. Even minus our top 2 winning-est opponents we've beaten - Gonzaga and Kentucky - the combined record would be 97-58, which would STILL be a better opposing schedule than what NC State has played INCLUDING their "2 far better wins". I think that's what the Coach's pollsters are looking at.
And Charlie Creme doesn't disagree with them - he's had South Carolina as his overall #1 Seed since the middle of January - AFTER USC had lost to NC State, and back when Louisville, NC State, AND your Connecticut were all undefeated. This isn't exactly a rare opinion..... |
All that post says is that SC deserves the top ranking because they played fewer bad teams than NCSt? That tells me one thing, you are grasping at straws. Further evidence? You using Creme as a source. LOL
When was the last time a team was No1 in February without a top 5 win?
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Conway Gamecock
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| Posted: 02/04/21 5:24 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| Conway Gamecock wrote: |
| linkster wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| South Carolina doesn’t have a bad loss. NCSU had a bad one recently against Virginia Tech. Hard to stomach NCSU at #1 after that. Sure, they had excuses for losing, but excuses don’t make a #1. |
They also have 2 far better wins than any of S Car.'s. SC has an impressive record but to claim you should be higher than NCSt you need a win over UConn. |
Same argument as the head-to-head versus overall strength of schedule. Minus those "2 far better wins", the rest of NC State's wins are over opponents with a combined record of 56-54. Yes, 56-54. That's mediocre. WITH those 2 wins, their wins are over opponents with a combined record of 86-56, which is better, except......
South Carolina's 14 wins are against a combined opponent record of 126-64. Even minus our top 2 winning-est opponents we've beaten - Gonzaga and Kentucky - the combined record would be 97-58, which would STILL be a better opposing schedule than what NC State has played INCLUDING their "2 far better wins". I think that's what the Coach's pollsters are looking at.
And Charlie Creme doesn't disagree with them - he's had South Carolina as his overall #1 Seed since the middle of January - AFTER USC had lost to NC State, and back when Louisville, NC State, AND your Connecticut were all undefeated. This isn't exactly a rare opinion..... |
All that post says is that SC deserves the top ranking because they played fewer bad teams than NCSt? That tells me one thing, you are grasping at straws. Further evidence? You using Creme as a source. LOL
When was the last time a team was No1 in February without a top 5 win? |
LOL you and your perpetually vibrating goal posts. Some would say that my post says is that USC deserves the top ranking (possibly) because they played more GOOD teams than NC St.
I mean, isn't that what all these metrical equations exist, in the first place??? The SOS, the RPI, the NET?? Massey?? KenPom?? Sagarin???
Aren't ALL OF THEM existing because it seems that just winning one or two great games doesn't seem to satisfy everyone as to who the best teams are, compared to entire seasons of sample size? Are all those mathematical systems "grasping at straws"? Doesn't the NCAA, ESPN, and all the talking heads grasping at those same straws, every season?
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purduefanatic
Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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| Posted: 02/05/21 9:10 am ::: |
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| Am I the only one that thinks University of Southern California when I see USC? Never does the University of South Carolina come to mind.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 02/05/21 10:17 am ::: |
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| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Am I the only one that thinks University of Southern California when I see USC? Never does the University of South Carolina come to mind. |
X____________
And USF is the University of San Francisco ...
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GlennMacGrady
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| Posted: 02/05/21 11:27 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| purduefanatic wrote: |
| Am I the only one that thinks University of Southern California when I see USC? Never does the University of South Carolina come to mind. |
X____________
And USF is the University of San Francisco ... |
And UT, to me, is the University of Texas, probably because I lived in Austin for two years. So, for Tennessee, I tend to write UTenn or UTK.
What school is UD? |
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