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| Will Loeffler still be a Dream co-owner by the time the 2021 season starts up? |
| Yes |
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38% |
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| No |
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61% |
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| Total Votes : 31 |
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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 Posted: 01/19/21 10:46 pm ::: |
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| Hope the deal happens tomorrow (Wednesday). Could be such a lovely day: Trump leaves the White House, Biden and Harris are inaugurated, Raphael Warnock takes his Senate seat, Kelly Loeffler is out of both the Senate and the WNBA. (And perhaps the impeachment trial begins?)
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 01/20/21 12:14 am ::: |
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| really exciting stuff. Just hope to see the signatures on the bottom line and that it is someone(s) that wants to stay in Atlanta.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606
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| Posted: 01/20/21 4:20 am ::: |
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| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| She calls herself a victim of the "cancel culture." ... The voters CANCELED you, just as they canceled David Perdue and Donald Trump. Didn't Georgia voters have the right to do that? |
I think she is referring to the reaction that her criticism of the Black Lives Matter organization with regard to all that they stand for - which is beyond their protesting for black men who are shot while resisting arrest. Where she was instantly a terrible person. Some people went so far as to claim that a woman who bought a money losing no prestige team of mostly black women was going to Washington to fight only for white people.
| Quote: |
| Also, Kelly, when you say you strived to put Georgia and Georgians first... wasn't that sentence supposed to have the word WHITE in it? |
https://www.ajc.com/sports/wnbas-atlanta-dream-on-verge-of-being-sold/IVEZT3CR6BAFHCNGWXMHNR3SJ4/
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| “There is no room for racism in this country. We cannot have it,” Loeffler said in July. “But there is an organization, different from the saying, an organization called Black Lives Matter founded on Marxist principles. Marxism supports socialism.” |
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| And, finally, Kelly, when you congratulate your successor but won't say his name, that vividly demonstrates one more time what a phony you are. Not even a principled conservative, just an opportunist who would swing whatever way the wind blows. |
I would have stuck with the "she's a racist" there since Warnock is black. Adding the possibility she's actually an opportunist who will swing with the wind dilutes prior more severe sullying.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
Posts: 1835
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| Posted: 01/20/21 6:39 am ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| johnjohnW wrote: |
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/30744823/atlanta-dream-sale-close-being-finalized-wnba-says
This article states 5 bidders for the team. |
Could be a good free agency period for the Dream after all. This is fabulous pre-news, of sorts.
5 bidders... Is this a sign that groups/people out there actually want to buy/own a WNBA team? Or is it that several different groups just want to play the hero here (what, with all the press that comes with it) as it relates to the Dream's super-specific highly publicized situation. My guess is of course the pessimistic latter.  I just hope the new owners know what they're getting themselves into & stay committed to owning the Dream (if they prove that they're good owners, of course).
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| [Loeffler] estimated that she's lost $10 million since buying the team [back in 2011]. According to campaign finance documents, Loeffler loaned her senatorial campaign $23 million in 2020. |
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Well, I would say there are people interested in buying existing teams as ATL, NY, LV and SAS have all been sold recently without much danger of folding. None of these teams appeared to face a LA or, worse, Houston situation.
It will be interesting to see who the new owner is and what their intentions are. I know Atlanta can be a whipping boy of the league but it's not a team I would rush to own on its merits. They've always struggled with attendance but maybe their new arena situation will help. I fear if the new owner is in a rescue mission, it won't end well for the team once the halo effect wanes.
Ultimately, I hope it's a serious owner who cares about the players and doesn't want to move the team.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 11140
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| Posted: 01/20/21 9:51 am ::: |
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| johnjohnW wrote: |
https://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/30744823/atlanta-dream-sale-close-being-finalized-wnba-says
This article states 5 bidders for the team. |
If the Dream have five actual bidders with cash in hand, that will be five more than any other WNBA team in history.
They may have five groups that have shown interest, but "interest" does not translate into real money.
Now there's nothing more I'd like to see than a bidding war for a WNBA franchise, and if true, this just might be the most significant event in the league's history. I just find it hard to believe that the first team that ever drew bidders is a mediocre team with a poor record of attendance and fan support.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 01/20/21 10:13 am ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| Bob Lamm wrote: |
| She calls herself a victim of the "cancel culture." ... The voters CANCELED you, just as they canceled David Perdue and Donald Trump. Didn't Georgia voters have the right to do that? |
I think she is referring to the reaction that her criticism of the Black Lives Matter organization with regard to all that they stand for - which is beyond their protesting for black men who are shot while resisting arrest. Where she was instantly a terrible person. Some people went so far as to claim that a woman who bought a money losing no prestige team of mostly black women was going to Washington to fight only for white people.
| Quote: |
| Also, Kelly, when you say you strived to put Georgia and Georgians first... wasn't that sentence supposed to have the word WHITE in it? |
https://www.ajc.com/sports/wnbas-atlanta-dream-on-verge-of-being-sold/IVEZT3CR6BAFHCNGWXMHNR3SJ4/
| Quote: |
| “There is no room for racism in this country. We cannot have it,” Loeffler said in July. “But there is an organization, different from the saying, an organization called Black Lives Matter founded on Marxist principles. Marxism supports socialism.” |
| Quote: |
| And, finally, Kelly, when you congratulate your successor but won't say his name, that vividly demonstrates one more time what a phony you are. Not even a principled conservative, just an opportunist who would swing whatever way the wind blows. |
I would have stuck with the "she's a racist" there since Warnock is black. Adding the possibility she's actually an opportunist who will swing with the wind dilutes prior more severe sullying. |
How lovely that we have someone here to explain and defend Kelly Loeffler. 
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/20/21 9:44 pm ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
Thanks for posting that Ed. No mention of the confusing part about Loeffler buying out Brock.
Says the team lost about $2 million per year for the last 2 seasons. I guess the Gateway arena should cost a lot less than State Farm, but salaries have gone up. If the new owners are LeBron's group - they seem able to afford it. |
Kathy Betty said they were losing $3M per year. I guess that's progress.
I wouldn't put much stock in what sports owners or commissioners say about profits. David Stern kept saying that most NBA teams lose money.
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Bob Lamm
Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 5065
Location: New York City
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| Posted: 01/20/21 9:58 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| I wouldn't put much stock in what sports owners or commissioners say about profits. David Stern kept saying that most NBA teams lose money. |
Absolutely right.
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johnjohnW
Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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| Posted: 01/20/21 10:37 pm ::: |
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| That's something I've never understood about the alleged million dollar multi-year losses quoted by WNBA teams. Like, I can see how NBA owned teams and suffer those annual losses and survive but I cannot fathom how independent owners like Brock and Leoffler could.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 01/21/21 6:01 am ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
I wouldn't put much stock in what sports owners or commissioners say about profits. David Stern kept saying that most NBA teams lose money. |
But in the case of the LA Sparks (2nd largest market in the country), it seems like the owner wasn't lying when she said she lost nearly 12 million from 2007 to 2013 and could no longer sustain it (8 months after the second ESPN deal) .
I went looking for information on that deal and found this article saying that the Lakers sold the Sparks for $10 million (seems like the exact figure that the league has advertised as the price to get an expansion franchise) in 2006 (to Kathy Goodman and Carla Christofferson). Don't know what the current ownership group is alleged to have bought the team for in 2014. I think they bought it from the league but I hope most of that money (if there was any) went to Paula Madison and not the league, which I believe had taken control and was negotiating the sale.
| Quote: |
| That's something I've never understood about the alleged million dollar multi-year losses quoted by WNBA teams. Like, I can see how NBA owned teams and suffer those annual losses and survive but I cannot fathom how independent owners like Brock and Leoffler could. |
Mary Brock is married to a former Coca Cola CEO, John Brock. Wikipedia shows his compensation for one year - 2009 - was $14,295,701. He was CEO from 2006 to 2016. Loeffler has been a high level executive and is married to Jeffrey Sprecher, who as CEO of Intercontinental Exchange in 2013 bought the New York Stock Exchange. So both owners, while not NBA-owner level of wealthy, are quite wealthy if you include their husbands finances. Loeffler and Brock were normally courtside at Dream games and I believe Brock's husband was the older man who was beside her. Not sure about how often Loeffler's husband was at games.
One difference between the WNBA and the NBA is that buyers form an ownership group in order to come up with all the money necessary to pay for a team in the NBA, but they form an ownership group in order to spread the losses around with a WNBA team. At least I assume the latter is why Baron Davis and Lebron James talked about an ownership group to buy the Dream.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/21/21 10:21 am ::: |
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My understanding of the "$10 million" is that it was to be paid from "future profits." So no actual money ever changed hands.
And few pro sports franchises make money on a yearly basis; the profit is in the increased value of the franchise itself. This is where the WNBA breaks down, as there is no evidence that there is any value to owning a WNBA franchise.
The day a WNBA franchise sells for real money -- actual cash up front -- will be the most important day since the league's founding. And the day when a WNBA franchise appreciates in value enough over a five-year span that it offsets the yearly losses will lead to expansion, higher salaries and all the things we hope for.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 01/21/21 10:39 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| And few pro sports franchises make money on a yearly basis; the profit is in the increased value of the franchise itself. |
This is nonsense. The value of the franchise wouldn't rise if they were losing money.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 01/21/21 3:16 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| And few pro sports franchises make money on a yearly basis; the profit is in the increased value of the franchise itself. |
This is nonsense. The value of the franchise wouldn't rise if they were losing money. |
It's the greater fool theory -it's price goes up if you can find a greater fool than you to buy it. It works fine, until it doesn't work anymore. It hasn't started working yet for the WNBA.
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wbj
Joined: 16 Oct 2007
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| Posted: 01/21/21 5:27 pm ::: |
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Unlike other sports, the loss math in the W is real outside of the old days with franchises co-owned with NBA where you could play math games if you wanted to. 2 million per year is ballpark correct and actually better than the old days thanks to larger TV money helping out significantly plus a little bit more national sponsor money. All comments are correct that there are not literally bidders here, just people willing to take on the losses (and sign a note to pay something if there is ever real profit). I have heard rumors about who might be involved that are disappointing but we shall see - my fear is some local folks are selling a story to other local folks to try to ensure they have a role/purpose again related to the team which might lead to instability down the road, but hopefully not. Ultimately it comes down to someone willing to invest 2 million per year or more for a while (more if you want to try to actually grow out of the status quo) solely for the enjoyment of it and supporting the community.
And yes the greater fool theory is real and yes franchises have sold in the past in other sports that were bleeding annual cash flow (e.g. hello Atlanta Spirit). You are betting on a future value increase based on the league itself and the scarcity of franchises eventually lifting all values even if yours happens to be weaker at the time....
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/21/21 6:52 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| ClayK wrote: |
| And few pro sports franchises make money on a yearly basis; the profit is in the increased value of the franchise itself. |
This is nonsense. The value of the franchise wouldn't rise if they were losing money. |
Sadly, this is true -- and makes sense. Obviously if the business loses $5 million in operations but gains $10 million in value, it's a good investment. And the market for pro sports teams is driven by scarcity, prestige and the fun of owning one, so there more buyers than sellers for the vast majority of NBA, MLB and NFL teams.
In a pure market, of course you're right, but a franchise is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, and today, people are willing to pay a lot for a business in the red. (Oh, and the accounting is goofy too. When a team is purchased, for example, the owner gets to depreciate the assets over five years or something -- so he or she can write off one-fifth of the player salaries each year.)
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