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What if the US had a parliament?
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PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 15543
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 12/22/16 11:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It is nice to know thatm as a majority of the people in this country continue to reject Republican policies and candidates, we see the piece of intellectual dishonesty that they will try to push to explain their power-mad and evil push to disenfranchise more and more of the country.

It is, I suppose, refreshing to see Republican hatred of democracy and voters on open display.


5thmantheme



Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Posts: 533



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PostPosted: 12/23/16 4:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

that IS the way it was done, land owners only, during George Washington's time. It would immediately disenfranchise 1/4 of the demographic group that flipped for and elected Trump, while also making the majority of Blacks and Latinos unable to vote.

There would also be this problem ... the Fed gets to vote for itself.



ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 13385



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PostPosted: 12/23/16 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

5thmantheme wrote:
that IS the way it was done, land owners only, during George Washington's time. It would immediately disenfranchise 1/4 of the demographic group that flipped for and elected Trump, while also making the majority of Blacks and Latinos unable to vote.

There would also be this problem ... the Fed gets to vote for itself.



Huh? Who said anything about landowners?

We have geographic districts today. But voting isn't limited to landowners and federal land isn't a problem

Wow, those herring are a really bright shade of red.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61983
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 01/07/21 12:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tried out some other methods besides Huntington Hill. They all produced very similar results. Using Huntington Hill, 362957 votes were required to win one seat.



You may now return to pretending you never heard of Party List voting



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Last edited by pilight on 01/07/21 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 15543
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 01/07/21 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
It is nice to know thatm as a majority of the people in this country continue to reject Republican policies and candidates, we see the piece of intellectual dishonesty that they will try to push to explain their power-mad and evil push to disenfranchise more and more of the country.

It is, I suppose, refreshing to see Republican hatred of democracy and voters on open display.


I said this more than four years ago.

What happened yesterday - and has happened in the past two months - isn't new. The Republican party has openly hated democracy for years.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 8344



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PostPosted: 01/08/21 1:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
It is nice to know thatm as a majority of the people in this country continue to reject Republican policies and candidates, we see the piece of intellectual dishonesty that they will try to push to explain their power-mad and evil push to disenfranchise more and more of the country.

It is, I suppose, refreshing to see Republican hatred of democracy and voters on open display.


I said this more than four years ago.

What happened yesterday - and has happened in the past two months - isn't new. The Republican party has openly hated democracy for years.


My brother keeps calling the last two months of questioning the results an "erosion of democracy" which the pundits have also been saying. But the protesters appear to be genuinely of the belief that the election results were improperly tallied, not that their candidate should remain in office despite getting less electoral votes. That's not to say that every single one of them, from Giuliani down, believes that. I think some politicians felt trapped to go along with the idea or risk losing some amount of Republican voters. Or went along to try and make a name for themselves. But I don't think anyone masquerading as a believer in widespread fraud felt the election results would be changed.

To me "erosion of democracy" is best applied to political advertising (both candidate paid for and PACs) and political parties getting private funding. All that money ends up influencing voters in ways beyond just reading policy positions. I think that money from a few being used to change the votes of the many is undemocratic. Even non-monetary influence on an election could be considered undemocratic. People voluntarily going around and advocating for a candidate and pushing people to the polls. They are having an influence on the outcome greater than their one vote allowed. Same with endorsements by existing politicians and other celebrities. Gives them extra influence on the election beyond their one vote. I see a pure democracy as candidates equally publicly stating and arguing their positions with nothing else to influence voters.


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 15543
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 01/08/21 10:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
It is nice to know thatm as a majority of the people in this country continue to reject Republican policies and candidates, we see the piece of intellectual dishonesty that they will try to push to explain their power-mad and evil push to disenfranchise more and more of the country.

It is, I suppose, refreshing to see Republican hatred of democracy and voters on open display.


I said this more than four years ago.

What happened yesterday - and has happened in the past two months - isn't new. The Republican party has openly hated democracy for years.


My brother keeps calling the last two months of questioning the results an "erosion of democracy" which the pundits have also been saying. But the protesters appear to be genuinely of the belief that the election results were improperly tallied, not that their candidate should remain in office despite getting less electoral votes. That's not to say that every single one of them, from Giuliani down, believes that. I think some politicians felt trapped to go along with the idea or risk losing some amount of Republican voters. Or went along to try and make a name for themselves. But I don't think anyone masquerading as a believer in widespread fraud felt the election results would be changed.

To me "erosion of democracy" is best applied to political advertising (both candidate paid for and PACs) and political parties getting private funding. All that money ends up influencing voters in ways beyond just reading policy positions. I think that money from a few being used to change the votes of the many is undemocratic. Even non-monetary influence on an election could be considered undemocratic. People voluntarily going around and advocating for a candidate and pushing people to the polls. They are having an influence on the outcome greater than their one vote allowed. Same with endorsements by existing politicians and other celebrities. Gives them extra influence on the election beyond their one vote. I see a pure democracy as candidates equally publicly stating and arguing their positions with nothing else to influence voters.


I have no interest in discussing anything with you. I would strongly prefer you not address my posts and drag them into the kinds of arguments you make on this website.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13321
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 01/08/21 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I think that money from a few being used to change the votes of the many is undemocratic.


If you're referring to the "Citizens United" legal precedent, giving corporations undue influence in political campaigns, then yes....I must agree.

HOWEVER.....

tfan wrote:
Even non-monetary influence on an election could be considered undemocratic. People voluntarily going around and advocating for a candidate and pushing people to the polls. They are having an influence on the outcome greater than their one vote allowed. Same with endorsements by existing politicians and other celebrities. Gives them extra influence on the election beyond their one vote.


THIS is unmitigated baloney. "Pushing" people to the polls is the long overdue antidote to the rampant voter suppression that has plagued our democracy since its beginning. I am more than delighted to give Stacey Abrams credit for the thousands of extra votes she and her forces got out to vote and change Georgia's outcomes. That's nothing like fabricating or falsifying votes: it's getting people who had previously been disenfranchised to exercise their full and equal rights.

tfan wrote:
I see a pure democracy as candidates equally publicly stating and arguing their positions with nothing else to influence voters.

Pleasant thought....perhaps in a nicely socialized democracy might we see this egalitarianism exist. But we don't live in a vacuum: influencing others to a way of thinking IS the very foundation of any society



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