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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16359 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 12/22/16 11:54 am ::: |
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It is nice to know thatm as a majority of the people in this country continue to reject Republican policies and candidates, we see the piece of intellectual dishonesty that they will try to push to explain their power-mad and evil push to disenfranchise more and more of the country.
It is, I suppose, refreshing to see Republican hatred of democracy and voters on open display.
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5thmantheme
Joined: 11 Apr 2016 Posts: 540
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66922 Location: Where the action is
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16359 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 01/07/21 12:24 pm ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
It is nice to know thatm as a majority of the people in this country continue to reject Republican policies and candidates, we see the piece of intellectual dishonesty that they will try to push to explain their power-mad and evil push to disenfranchise more and more of the country.
It is, I suppose, refreshing to see Republican hatred of democracy and voters on open display. |
I said this more than four years ago.
What happened yesterday - and has happened in the past two months - isn't new. The Republican party has openly hated democracy for years.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9627
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Posted: 01/08/21 1:25 am ::: |
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PUmatty wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
It is nice to know thatm as a majority of the people in this country continue to reject Republican policies and candidates, we see the piece of intellectual dishonesty that they will try to push to explain their power-mad and evil push to disenfranchise more and more of the country.
It is, I suppose, refreshing to see Republican hatred of democracy and voters on open display. |
I said this more than four years ago.
What happened yesterday - and has happened in the past two months - isn't new. The Republican party has openly hated democracy for years. |
My brother keeps calling the last two months of questioning the results an "erosion of democracy" which the pundits have also been saying. But the protesters appear to be genuinely of the belief that the election results were improperly tallied, not that their candidate should remain in office despite getting less electoral votes. That's not to say that every single one of them, from Giuliani down, believes that. I think some politicians felt trapped to go along with the idea or risk losing some amount of Republican voters. Or went along to try and make a name for themselves. But I don't think anyone masquerading as a believer in widespread fraud felt the election results would be changed.
To me "erosion of democracy" is best applied to political advertising (both candidate paid for and PACs) and political parties getting private funding. All that money ends up influencing voters in ways beyond just reading policy positions. I think that money from a few being used to change the votes of the many is undemocratic. Even non-monetary influence on an election could be considered undemocratic. People voluntarily going around and advocating for a candidate and pushing people to the polls. They are having an influence on the outcome greater than their one vote allowed. Same with endorsements by existing politicians and other celebrities. Gives them extra influence on the election beyond their one vote. I see a pure democracy as candidates equally publicly stating and arguing their positions with nothing else to influence voters.
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004 Posts: 16359 Location: Chicago
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Posted: 01/08/21 10:32 am ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
PUmatty wrote: |
It is nice to know thatm as a majority of the people in this country continue to reject Republican policies and candidates, we see the piece of intellectual dishonesty that they will try to push to explain their power-mad and evil push to disenfranchise more and more of the country.
It is, I suppose, refreshing to see Republican hatred of democracy and voters on open display. |
I said this more than four years ago.
What happened yesterday - and has happened in the past two months - isn't new. The Republican party has openly hated democracy for years. |
My brother keeps calling the last two months of questioning the results an "erosion of democracy" which the pundits have also been saying. But the protesters appear to be genuinely of the belief that the election results were improperly tallied, not that their candidate should remain in office despite getting less electoral votes. That's not to say that every single one of them, from Giuliani down, believes that. I think some politicians felt trapped to go along with the idea or risk losing some amount of Republican voters. Or went along to try and make a name for themselves. But I don't think anyone masquerading as a believer in widespread fraud felt the election results would be changed.
To me "erosion of democracy" is best applied to political advertising (both candidate paid for and PACs) and political parties getting private funding. All that money ends up influencing voters in ways beyond just reading policy positions. I think that money from a few being used to change the votes of the many is undemocratic. Even non-monetary influence on an election could be considered undemocratic. People voluntarily going around and advocating for a candidate and pushing people to the polls. They are having an influence on the outcome greater than their one vote allowed. Same with endorsements by existing politicians and other celebrities. Gives them extra influence on the election beyond their one vote. I see a pure democracy as candidates equally publicly stating and arguing their positions with nothing else to influence voters. |
I have no interest in discussing anything with you. I would strongly prefer you not address my posts and drag them into the kinds of arguments you make on this website.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15739 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 01/08/21 3:51 pm ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
I think that money from a few being used to change the votes of the many is undemocratic. |
If you're referring to the "Citizens United" legal precedent, giving corporations undue influence in political campaigns, then yes....I must agree.
HOWEVER.....
tfan wrote: |
Even non-monetary influence on an election could be considered undemocratic. People voluntarily going around and advocating for a candidate and pushing people to the polls. They are having an influence on the outcome greater than their one vote allowed. Same with endorsements by existing politicians and other celebrities. Gives them extra influence on the election beyond their one vote. |
THIS is unmitigated baloney. "Pushing" people to the polls is the long overdue antidote to the rampant voter suppression that has plagued our democracy since its beginning. I am more than delighted to give Stacey Abrams credit for the thousands of extra votes she and her forces got out to vote and change Georgia's outcomes. That's nothing like fabricating or falsifying votes: it's getting people who had previously been disenfranchised to exercise their full and equal rights.
tfan wrote: |
I see a pure democracy as candidates equally publicly stating and arguing their positions with nothing else to influence voters. |
Pleasant thought....perhaps in a nicely socialized democracy might we see this egalitarianism exist. But we don't live in a vacuum: influencing others to a way of thinking IS the very foundation of any society
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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