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root_thing
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 Posted: 01/05/21 12:11 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| Looking at the 2nd Round of that mock draft, Jasmine Walker is at Alabama -- not Alabama State. Big difference in competition level. She is currently averaging almost four made 3's per game while shooting them at a 40% clip. We're talking about a player listed at 6-3 who is at least an average athlete if not better. She's also averaging almost 10 rpg and 22 ppg overall. So far, Walker has only faced one P5 team in seven games. However, if she can keep up anything close to her current production during SEC play, Jasmine will be an easy 1st Round pick. |
Walker's been fixed. Again, the new site is hard to navigate and the admin pages are even worse. |
First time watching her - against SoCaro today and I would say there will definitely be interest in her, especially in this day where 4's are expected to be outside shooters. She has quite a nice looking shot 3-7 from three today and is fairly mobile too. She reminded me a bit of a taller Shameka Christon from back in the day. |
Walker can definitely shoot, but she disappeared for most of the 2nd Qtr and all of the 3rd. More importantly, she was one of the reasons her team got killed off the boards. She got out-muscled and out-jumped time and again. Still, in this draft, no one is looking that impressive. Not sure Walker's stock went down as much as it failed to go up. It was a missed opportunity for her. |
she struck me more as a tall 3 rather than a 4 - like not too interested in spending time in the post. Kind of like a version of KLS. |
Fair enough, but like KLS can Walker effectively defend at the 3? They're both tweeners in terms of quickness: mobile for a post, but slowish for a wing.
Walker came into the game averaging 9.6 rebounds per game. I was hoping she was a legitimate stretch 4 who could actually defend and rebound like a PF. That would make her very valuable. We didn't see that tonight. Walker looked bad as both a defender and rebounder. If all she can do is be a tall spot-up shooter at the 4, then who does that make her -- Ally Malott?
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 01/05/21 12:48 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| she struck me more as a tall 3 rather than a 4 - like not too interested in spending time in the post. Kind of like a version of KLS. |
That could be right up some coaches' alleys – the Liberty's Hopkins comes to mind. I don't remember if I already said it on this board, but I wouldn't mind it if the Liberty traded for a late-1st round pick and chose a Jasmine Walker or an Iliana Rupert (Johannès French connection) or some other 4 or 5. Especially if Charli Collier's unavailable for this Draft – but even if she is & they still draft her #1.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/05/21 10:06 am ::: |
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| I was hoping Walker was a legitimate stretch 4 so the Liberty could take her and not have the defensive and rebounding problems we get by using 3’s at 4. However, if your tall 3 doesn’t defend or rebound any better than a conventional size 3, then what’s the point? We can just continue getting exploited on defense and killed off the boards with the SF's we already have.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 01/05/21 11:16 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| I was hoping Walker was a legitimate stretch 4 so the Liberty could take her and not have the defensive and rebounding problems we get by using 3’s at 4. However, if your tall 3 doesn’t defend or rebound any better than a conventional size 3, then what’s the point? We can just continue getting exploited on defense and killed off the boards with the SF's we already have. |
Walker’s statistically still a good rebounder at 9ish per game. She may have gotten outmuscled against SoCar’s dominant starting lineup, which does feature future WNBA talent at just about every position, but she’ll have more chances against top competition. I don’t think anyone was expecting her to rise up against Alabama’s first real test of the season (and what should be the toughest out on their schedule). We’ll see what follows. As for how she’d look on the Liberty, well, I still can’t imagine she’d be less of a fit playing the 4 than one of the current true wings on the roster shorter than her. Not to mention – she’s averaging 40% from 3, and was able to hit that mark in yesterday’s game, so there’s one good sign, if nothing else.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/05/21 1:14 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
| root_thing wrote: |
| I was hoping Walker was a legitimate stretch 4 so the Liberty could take her and not have the defensive and rebounding problems we get by using 3’s at 4. However, if your tall 3 doesn’t defend or rebound any better than a conventional size 3, then what’s the point? We can just continue getting exploited on defense and killed off the boards with the SF's we already have. |
Walker’s statistically still a good rebounder at 9ish per game. She may have gotten outmuscled against SoCar’s dominant starting lineup, which does feature future WNBA talent at just about every position, but she’ll have more chances against top competition. I don’t think anyone was expecting her to rise up against Alabama’s first real test of the season (and what should be the toughest out on their schedule). We’ll see what follows. As for how she’d look on the Liberty, well, I still can’t imagine she’d be less of a fit playing the 4 than one of the current true wings on the roster shorter than her. Not to mention – she’s averaging 40% from 3, and was able to hit that mark in yesterday’s game, so there’s one good sign, if nothing else. |
I understand it's only one game, and I'm hoping Walker does better next time. Believe me, I'm desperate to get excited about somebody. I'm searching high and low, hoping a studette (female stud, not a small French apartment) will come out of the woodwork. I thought Walker might be that player, so I was hoping for a good performance last night. I'm still rooting for her.
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myrtle
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| Posted: 01/05/21 1:55 pm ::: |
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| so today is another of the few chances to see Chelsea Perry play against a top team...It's an early game.
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Shades
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| Posted: 01/05/21 2:58 pm ::: |
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10 players and coaches to watch in women’s basketball in 2021
https://theathletic.com/2299665/2021/01/04/wnba-womens-college-basketball-charli-collier-candace-parker-sue-bird/
2. Charli Collier, Texas forward
| Quote: |
| The No. 1 pick in the 2021 WNBA Draft could be the 22-year-old post player out of Texas. Collier has had some big performances already this season, but it’s her size, length and potential that have coaches and GMs most excited about her ceiling in the league. Her shooting percentages have skyrocketed during her junior season: She’s finishing 63 percent of her shots at the rim (up from 50 percent as a sophomore) and 47 percent of her shots from midrange (up from 26 percent as a sophomore), according to Pivot Analysis. |
Hmmm.... I must resemble a WNBA GM.
After her game against Iowa St, I am a little more open to the possibility of her not being the #1 pick, but it’s not like anybody is really stepping up yet to take that spot.
Collier was frustrated again when the defense keyed on her, but she still managed a double double. It just wasn’t a dominating performance. I’m not sure Schaefer is best coach for her. It’s almost like he wants to use her like he used McCowan, but they’re totally different players. She needs to roam more.
Onyenwere beasted out against Oregon. If she keeps beasting, any chance NYL takes her since she would fit their ultra small ball system, leaving Dallas with their choice of juicy posts? It’s still early... no panic over comments needed.
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DFWub2018
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| Posted: 01/05/21 3:02 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
10 players and coaches to watch in women’s basketball in 2021
https://theathletic.com/2299665/2021/01/04/wnba-womens-college-basketball-charli-collier-candace-parker-sue-bird/
2. Charli Collier, Texas forward
| Quote: |
| The No. 1 pick in the 2021 WNBA Draft could be the 22-year-old post player out of Texas. Collier has had some big performances already this season, but it’s her size, length and potential that have coaches and GMs most excited about her ceiling in the league. Her shooting percentages have skyrocketed during her junior season: She’s finishing 63 percent of her shots at the rim (up from 50 percent as a sophomore) and 47 percent of her shots from midrange (up from 26 percent as a sophomore), according to Pivot Analysis. |
Hmmm.... I must resemble a WNBA GM.
After her game against Iowa St, I am a little more open to the possibility of her not being the #1 pick, but it’s not like anybody is really stepping up yet to take that spot.
Collier was frustrated again when the defense keyed on her, but she still managed a double double. It just wasn’t a dominating performance. I’m not sure Schaefer is best coach for her. It’s almost like he wants to use her like he used McCowan, but they’re totally different players. She needs to roam more.
Onyenwere beasted out against Oregon. If she keeps beasting, any chance NYL takes her since she would fit their ultra small ball system, leaving Dallas with their choice of juicy posts? It’s still early... no panic over comments needed. |
I'm 😂 on that last comment!!!
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Stormeo
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/05/21 4:00 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
Onyenwere beasted out against Oregon. If she keeps beasting, any chance NYL takes her since she would fit their ultra small ball system, leaving Dallas with their choice of juicy posts? It’s still early... no panic over comments needed. |
Again, being small isn't the goal -- the goal is to be skilled at every position. It's just that it's easier to find skilled players who are small or medium-sized. If we can find five 6-8 players who are skilled, we'll take them. Onyenwere has to prove herself as an outside shooter, and then she'd have to convince management that she's better than the boatload of wing players already on the roster. So no, I don't see her as the pick unless there's a huge change in her game. As J-Spoon so aptly put it, "Collier is the pick until she isn't." Someone has to step up, and it probably has to be a post player. That person has yet to emerge.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 01/05/21 4:14 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| I understand it's only one game, and I'm hoping Walker does better next time. Believe me, I'm desperate to get excited about somebody. I'm searching high and low, hoping a studette (female stud, not a small French apartment) will come out of the woodwork. I thought Walker might be that player, so I was hoping for a good performance last night. I'm still rooting for her. |
Yep, you do sound desperate.  The only one to remotely get excited about is Collier, who nine games in is still averaging 20+ PPG & 10+ RPG. Although, in terms of seniors, Natasha Mack is putting up very similar numbers to last year, even without Vivian Gray to play next to – I wasn't anticipating that. She's also a better shot blocker than Collier, though we know that that doesn't necessarily show that she's a better defender. Mack is keeping herself in lottery contention, afaic – though that may speak to everyone else more than anything. The players this year really are who they are, and not much more.
I hope we'll see a lot of trades in this Draft. With weak drafts, fit is everything – the teams these players get picked on will make or break their career, so they ought to go after specific players who'll fit their system the best. Imo, simply picking the BPA means quite a lot less when the BPA is still subpar. Still, especially with how many international deferral picks there will be, I for one can't imagine future Drafts being worse than the 2017 Draft (at least regarding Drafts of recent memory).
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myrtle
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| Posted: 01/05/21 4:33 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| so today is another of the few chances to see Chelsea Perry play against a top team...It's an early game. |
interesting game for her. L'ville started out doubling/tripling her and she struggled, rarely getting the ball and when she did get it, turning it over several times. When the game was a blowout they started single coverage and she scored easily time after time. 26 points, 10 rebounds, a block and 4 TOs.
She has a lot of upside but it will obviously be a big jump. I would take her probably middle of first round.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 01/05/21 4:44 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| so today is another of the few chances to see Chelsey Perry play against a top team...It's an early game. |
interesting game for her. L'ville started out doubling/tripling her and she struggled, rarely getting the ball and when she did get it, turning it over several times. When the game was a blowout they started single coverage and she scored easily time after time. 26 points, 10 rebounds, a block and 4 TOs.
She has a lot of upside but it will obviously be a big jump. I would take her probably middle of first round. |
Many W players still struggle getting double-teamed. Imo, Chelsey Perry and most other rookie posts will have to earn double-teams in the pros. If she can be effective 1-on-1 (on both ends of the floor) in this kind of game, she has a chance of bringing that effectiveness over to the next level. Defenses aren't gonna mix it up on her specifically until she shows she can be a problem...
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 01/05/21 4:48 pm ::: |
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| Kuier is averaging around 9 points/7 rebounds per game in 25mpg in Italy, by the way. 47% from two, 41% from three on about two attempts per game. So not terrible for a 19 year-old playing her first season in a decent league, but at the same time hardly setting the world alight. Izzy Harrison and Tyaunna Marshall are her team's Americans. |
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/05/21 6:56 pm ::: |
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I’ve revised my thinking about how NY should approach the draft. Previously, my preference was to take the best player available unless it’s really close, in which case draft based on need. However, after that Mock Offseason exercise, it’s become clear that mid-roster players from good teams will be available through free agency due to the new salary structure. Perennial contenders will inevitably face a cap crunch where they have to shed players. That means 4th and 5th starters, as well as 6th and 7th women from good teams will likely be available every winter. If you’re a rebuilding team, those players can at least fill the same roles on your team and maybe step up in responsibility. On the other hand, no one is going to hand you their stars. Unless a player wants to force her way off the team -- and usually those individuals have specific destinations in mind -- really good players are not moving. Therefore, if you’re a rebuilding team, your goal is to draft players who have a chance at stardom. Selecting a high ceiling project makes more sense than taking a high floor “safe” choice. So, for instance, if Charli Collier chooses to stay in school, rather than take a Rennia Davis, Arella Guirantes or Natasha Mack, I’d prefer to roll the dice on Awak Kuier. If she turns out to be a bust, so be it. We took our shot. It may even tell you something about your coaching staff's ability to develop players.  The other names don’t look like star material to me even if they turn out to be decent players. Decent players can be had as free agents.
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Richyyy
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| Posted: 01/05/21 7:48 pm ::: |
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To go super-high - like New York's #1 - even in a crappy draft, you have to have some level of assurance that the player is going to show up regularly, though. And/or they have to be some kind of dead-cert behemoth like Jackson or Cambage.
I totally agree that in a crapshoot collection of options you take the high-ceiling gamble, but I think you have to be moderately sure that you're at least going to see them in town to find out whether you were right. |
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/05/21 11:37 pm ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
To go super-high - like New York's #1 - even in a crappy draft, you have to have some level of assurance that the player is going to show up regularly, though. And/or they have to be some kind of dead-cert behemoth like Jackson or Cambage.
I totally agree that in a crapshoot collection of options you take the high-ceiling gamble, but I think you have to be moderately sure that you're at least going to see them in town to find out whether you were right. |
Without a doubt. But given how Kolb and Hopkins talked about interviewing every draft pick multiple times -- in fact, several members of the staff met with each prospect to get different points of view -- I'm pretty sure management will do their due diligence.
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DFWub2018
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| Posted: 01/06/21 1:23 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| Richyyy wrote: |
To go super-high - like New York's #1 - even in a crappy draft, you have to have some level of assurance that the player is going to show up regularly, though. And/or they have to be some kind of dead-cert behemoth like Jackson or Cambage.
I totally agree that in a crapshoot collection of options you take the high-ceiling gamble, but I think you have to be moderately sure that you're at least going to see them in town to find out whether you were right. |
Without a doubt. But given how Kolb and Hopkins talked about interviewing every draft pick multiple times -- in fact, several members of the staff met with each prospect to get different points of view -- I'm pretty sure management will do their due diligence. |
I have a strange feeling that Neka will be going to NY and Cambages will be headed to LA!
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/06/21 1:56 pm ::: |
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| DFWub2018 wrote: |
I have a strange feeling that Neka will be going to NY and Cambages will be headed to LA! |
You've said this before, but what is the basis for your strange feelings? Twitter comments? Offseason activity by players? News items? I get strange feelings all the time, but they're usually aches and pains from old age.
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DFWub2018
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| Posted: 01/06/21 3:06 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| DFWub2018 wrote: |
I have a strange feeling that Neka will be going to NY and Cambages will be headed to LA! |
You've said this before, but what is the basis for your strange feelings? Twitter comments? Offseason activity by players? News items? I get strange feelings all the time, but they're usually aches and pains from old age. |
Before it was just Neka, but I think Fish is going to persuade Cambage to LA as a win for both of them. I actually had a dream about it, but that's all I have at this point!
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Shades
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| Posted: 01/06/21 9:18 pm ::: |
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Natasha Mack just had a ridiculous stat line in a road game against TCU, a Big-12 team. A rare triple double for a post player.
28 pts (12-20, 4-5 FT), 17 reb (4 off), 3 ast, 1 TO, 6 stl, 10 blk in 34 min
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Stormeo
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/06/21 10:54 pm ::: |
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| There's no doubt Mack was the better player last year. It's just a matter of whether you believe Collier has caught and eclipsed Natasha this season. From a developmental point of view, Collier is two years younger and has more of a pro body. Charli was also a legitimate 3pt threat last year, but that seems discouraged now under Vic Schaefer.
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Stormeo
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| Posted: 01/07/21 2:01 am ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| There's no doubt Mack was the better player last year. It's just a matter of whether you believe Collier has caught and eclipsed Natasha this season. From a developmental point of view, Collier is two years younger and has more of a pro body. Charli was also a legitimate 3pt threat last year, but that seems discouraged now under Vic Schaefer. |
I'm glad Schaefer's making her not really shoot 3s. Her PPG is as high as ever, while at the same time her FG% has never been healthier. Again, we'll see how sustainable it is going further into the season, but the fact that he took a much rawer Teaira McCowan at Mississippi State and made her into at least a dominant college player reassures me that Collier's inevitable statistical drop-off won't be too stark. No reason why it shouldn't stay above 20 PPG at above ~54% from the field. Collier's sophomore season should be proof enough that she has a legitimate 3PT shot anyway – anyone can see that switching coaches since then caused her to be used differently. I just hope that if New York drafts her, they don't make her shoot a high-volume of 3s like they did with both Zahui B. and Stokes – particularly if she replaces one of them in the lineup.
Meanwhile Mack, who may be less of a fit in New York than Collier, could absolutely be in contention for the #2 Pick. If Vickie Johnson is anything like Laimbeer, Mack is exactly the type of post player she'd want – athletic & conventional, and doesn't want to take outside shots (which would work out, because she can't shoot! ). And as a bonus, Mack's from Texas.
Of course, this assumes both players make themselves available, and yadda yadda yadda. We've talked about Collier being a junior, but as a JC transfer, this is only Mack's second year at a university. I think she'll still make herself available as expected, but maybe she wants to see if she can have just a full, normal year at university that isn't affected by the pandemic.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 01/07/21 12:04 pm ::: |
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| Stormeo wrote: |
I'm glad Schaefer's making her not really shoot 3s. Her PPG is as high as ever, while at the same time her FG% has never been healthier. Again, we'll see how sustainable it is going further into the season, but the fact that he took a much rawer Teaira McCowan at Mississippi State and made her into at least a dominant college player reassures me that Collier's inevitable statistical drop-off won't be too stark. No reason why it shouldn't stay above 20 PPG at above ~54% from the field. Collier's sophomore season should be proof enough that she has a legitimate 3PT shot anyway – anyone can see that switching coaches since then caused her to be used differently. I just hope that if New York drafts her, they don't make her shoot a high-volume of 3s as they did with both Zahui B. and Stokes – particularly if she replaces one of them in the lineup. |
Vic Schaefer’s job is to win games for Texas -- not to make Collier a more desirable pro prospect. That said, Charli’s numbers are up, so he’s probably accomplishing both. NY specifically would be more comfortable taking Collier if she were making 3’s, but that’s not Vic’s problem.
Hopkins definitely forced Stokes to shoot 3's, but Zahui needed no encouragement. Remember, she shot 7-8 from long range against LA the season before when she scored a career high 37 points. If NY drafts Collier, she'll definitely spend some time on the perimeter. If the open 3 is there, she'll be expected to take it. I guess the number of attempts will partly depend on whether opposing teams choose to guard her. Opponents were clearly leaving Stokes open and daring her to shoot. Consequently, under Hopkins' system, she was obligated to take a lot of 3's.
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– appears to be between Charli Collier and Natasha Mack. (I don't see a Baylor player winning the honor this season.)