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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 01/03/21 12:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As illustrated here - https://herhoopstats.com/salary-cap-sheet/wnba/team/chicago-sky-11eaecc7-355f-1c4a-b611-2362f5011b0b/ - Chicago kinda have 11 players under contract (only 'kinda' because that includes Gillespie, a cuttable 3rd-rounder, and Conde, who's never shown up) and 141k of cap room. So cut Conde, add her 58k to the space, and you have 200k of room, essentially. That's more than the max they can pay Candace Parker (barring a sign-and-trade) anyway. So there's no actual need to clear anyone, if they were willing to let one C.Parker walk in order to sign another.



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 01/03/21 8:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This free agency period will be very interesting. We will find out which General Managers are great Poker players and which ones struggle to play Checkers.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 01/03/21 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
This free agency period will be very interesting. We will find out which General Managers are great Poker players and which ones struggle to play Checkers.


I'm pretty sure most of them are playing darts. Blindfolded.



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 01/03/21 10:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
This free agency period will be very interesting. We will find out which General Managers are great Poker players and which ones struggle to play Checkers.


I'm pretty sure most of them are playing darts. Blindfolded.

True! Laughing
It would be great if Chicago can get a post player that can rebound and protect the rim without having to give away all of the King's treasure to get her.



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Sparksfan



Joined: 18 Aug 2015
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PostPosted: 01/03/21 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
This free agency period will be very interesting. We will find out which General Managers are great Poker players and which ones struggle to play Checkers.


I'm pretty sure most of them are playing darts. Blindfolded.

True! Laughing
It would be great if Chicago can get a post player that can rebound and protect the rim without having to give away all of the King's treasure to get her.


Chicago can get Candace Parker without giving up anything if they can convince her to just leave LA without doing a sign and trade. Chicago needs to drop Dolson. If Chicago can move Dolson they can have the Parker and Parker front court


root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 01/03/21 12:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
This free agency period will be very interesting. We will find out which General Managers are great Poker players and which ones struggle to play Checkers.

I think some of them struggle with Tic-Tac-Toe.

Rock Hard wrote:

It would be great if Chicago can get a post player that can rebound and protect the rim without having to give away all of the King's treasure to get her.

I believe your girl Natasha Mack can help in that regard. I have my doubts about her ability to score at the next level, but I think she can be a Brianna Turner type shotblocking/rebounding skinny post. That assumes she makes it through to pick #8. Also, Richyyy's current scenarios don't include cap space for the draft pick. Even if you cut Gillespie and Conde, that leaves Chicago with $258k to play with. If you give $195 to one Parker or the other, that still leaves you $4k short of affording your 1st Rounder. Wade will have to do some more maneuvering. The easy move without making trades would be to replace his precious Stephanie Mavunga with someone cheaper.



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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 01/03/21 12:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ah, the wisdom of the Internet ...

If we all spent 40 or more hours a week as general manager of a WNBA franchise, our knowledge of our limitations and possibilities would be infinitely greater. And just as outsiders are convinced they could do your job better than you -- and are often free with advice -- they really don't understand the situation the way you do from the inside.

WNBA GMs are intelligent people who've spent many years in the business of basketball, and though obviously some are better than others, and some are not good at their jobs, for us to assume we're so much smarter with so much less information and experience is, well, pretty much the Internet in action.

It is fun to call them stupid, I admit, having done so myself many a time, but whether that accusation has any relation to reality is difficult to know from the outside.



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Sparksfan



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PostPosted: 01/03/21 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
This free agency period will be very interesting. We will find out which General Managers are great Poker players and which ones struggle to play Checkers.

I think some of them struggle with Tic-Tac-Toe.

Rock Hard wrote:

It would be great if Chicago can get a post player that can rebound and protect the rim without having to give away all of the King's treasure to get her.

I believe your girl Natasha Mack can help in that regard. I have my doubts about her ability to score at the next level, but I think she can be a Brianna Turner type shotblocking/rebounding skinny post. That assumes she makes it through to pick #8. Also, Richyyy's current scenarios don't include cap space for the draft pick. Even if you cut Gillespie and Conde, that leaves Chicago with $258k to play with. If you give $195 to one Parker or the other, that still leaves you $4k short of affording your 1st Rounder. Wade will have to do some more maneuvering. The easy move without making trades would be to replace his precious Stephanie Mavunga with someone cheaper.



How much playing time will a first Rounder get in Chicago especially if they add Parker. I would trade my first Rounder of this year draft for a first round pick for next year and a collateral player who will be cut anyway to make that space


johnjohnW



Joined: 11 Aug 2020
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PostPosted: 01/03/21 1:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:

It is fun to call them stupid, I admit, having done so myself many a time, but whether that accusation has any relation to reality is difficult to know from the outside.


I don't think it's that they're stupid or don't know their jobs, just that they are severely limited in what they can achieve in a league with such a strict salary cap. The new salary cap will make things a little more interesting but there's only so much a GM in the W can achieve through free agency since the salaries, at the end of the day, are comparable no matter where you play. It's usually more about a player's preference more than anything.

That being said. I'm very intrigued by the prospect of Griner to Chicago. I love BG and love her in Phoenix but BG on the Sky could be championship caliber.


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
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PostPosted: 01/03/21 2:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Speaking about the Sky’s lone draft pick, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Sky draft Iliana Rupert at 8. I forgot James Wade’s nationalities are both American and French. He could also find a way to acquire a late-rounder or two to try & get some other draft-worthy French players, since this is the year to do so. Could’ve already had some had they not thought Mavunga was so valuable to trade for. Confused (I get what they were doing at the time, but it still backfired when they needed it to work the most)



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root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 01/03/21 2:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Ah, the wisdom of the Internet ...

If we all spent 40 or more hours a week as general manager of a WNBA franchise, our knowledge of our limitations and possibilities would be infinitely greater. And just as outsiders are convinced they could do your job better than you -- and are often free with advice -- they really don't understand the situation the way you do from the inside.

WNBA GMs are intelligent people who've spent many years in the business of basketball, and though obviously some are better than others, and some are not good at their jobs, for us to assume we're so much smarter with so much less information and experience is, well, pretty much the Internet in action.

It is fun to call them stupid, I admit, having done so myself many a time, but whether that accusation has any relation to reality is difficult to know from the outside.

A lot of it is simply a joke building on what the previous poster said. We're just goofing around. No need to get sanctimonious.


Sparksfan wrote:
root_thing wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:

It would be great if Chicago can get a post player that can rebound and protect the rim without having to give away all of the King's treasure to get her.


I believe your girl Natasha Mack can help in that regard. I have my doubts about her ability to score at the next level, but I think she can be a Brianna Turner type shotblocking/rebounding skinny post. That assumes she makes it through to pick #8. Also, Richyyy's current scenarios don't include cap space for the draft pick. Even if you cut Gillespie and Conde, that leaves Chicago with $258k to play with. If you give $195 to one Parker or the other, that still leaves you $4k short of affording your 1st Rounder. Wade will have to do some more maneuvering. The easy move without making trades would be to replace his precious Stephanie Mavunga with someone cheaper.


How much playing time will a first Rounder get in Chicago especially if they add Parker. I would trade my first Rounder of this year draft for a first round pick for next year and a collateral player who will be cut anyway to make that space


The more realistic scenario is that Chicago brings back Cheyenne Parker. Even with her on the team last season, Rock Hard has been saying that the Sky need defensive help. Also, there are off-season rumblings that Stevens won't be ready at the start of the year.



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 01/03/21 4:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Also, Richyyy's current scenarios don't include cap space for the draft pick. Even if you cut Gillespie and Conde, that leaves Chicago with $258k to play with. If you give $195 to one Parker or the other, that still leaves you $4k short of affording your 1st Rounder. Wade will have to do some more maneuvering. The easy move without making trades would be to replace his precious Stephanie Mavunga with someone cheaper.

Yeah, fair point. If they dumped Conde and Gillespie (or Conde just agreed not to show up yet again), they'd have 258,285 for 2 or 3 spots. If they drafted someone they actually want on the roster in 2021 with the #8 then that would be 67,208, leaving 191,077 for 1 or 2 spots. Which is still more than the standard max.

And yes, the 0-2 years of service minimum is 11,330 less than the 3+ minimum that all their 4th-year players are on (including Mavunga), if they needed just a little more.



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 01/03/21 4:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

so this is financially possible if they cut Gillespie and Conde doesn't come over and Ch. Parker gets a standard max deal?

Sloot/#8 Evans or Westbrook
Quigley/Copper
Deshields/Williams
Stevens/Hebard/Mavunga
Ch. Parker/Dolson

I know it isn't very exciting but I still like this Chicago team, there is still a lot of room for internal growth from Deshields, Williams, Copper, Ch. Parker, Stevens and Hebard to think even if it is technically running it back they could still be much better than 2020 version. IMO they are borderline contenders and who know what will happen to LA, LV, Seattle and Washington with cap issues and question marks of their own.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 01/03/21 6:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
so this is financially possible if they cut Gillespie and Conde doesn't come over and Ch. Parker gets a standard max deal?

Sloot/#8 Evans or Westbrook
Quigley/Copper
Deshields/Williams
Stevens/Hebard/Mavunga
Ch. Parker/Dolson

Yes, if Cheyenne Parker (or someone else) signed for the standard max, that squad would be all of $527 under the cap Smile.

By my maths, anyway. It's all there for anyone else to check, if you so desire Wink.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 01/03/21 11:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The difference between standard max and supermax is $30,900. That’s a lot of money – you’re leaving 14% on the table. The current team’s advantage is that only they can pay more than standard max. Leverage for the player is that her old team receives no compensation if she simply walks. She can also threaten to sit out the season. For the team, there are also intangible costs in terms of negative reactions from fans and other players. On the positive side, by unloading an expensive player, they’ll have more financial freedom to re-sign their own players or pursue free agents.

Ultimately, the battle is how close can the player get to supermax versus how much of a hometown discount the team can squeeze out of her? It’s actually easier if the player makes it clear she is determined to leave no matter what – provided it's credible. If you’re like Cheyenne Parker and you’ve already declared publically that you don’t want to leave, then the team is in a better position to lowball you. But if they do, will the player get insulted and suddenly change her mind? Furthermore, how do market conditions affect the decision? Are there cheaper options out there who can substantially fill the shoes of the departing player? And what kind of assets can you get back in a sign-and-trade?



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 01/04/21 12:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also, especially for the aging players - as we saw with Kristi Toliver last year - sometimes years are more important than (or at least as important as) price point. Would someone give soon-to-be 35-year old Candace Parker a four-year deal (again, that would have to be sign-and-trade)?



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 01/04/21 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I had this team in the HerHoopStats mock offseason, and my number one goal was to re-sign Cheyenne Parker, but to do so, players had to be cut and an 11-woman roster was required.

As I recall, the "agent" for Parker agreed to a three-year, max deal (not supermax). Parker might have gotten the same somewhere else, but she blossomed in Chicago and for me at least, is a fit at power forward next to Dolson.



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DFWub2018



Joined: 24 Aug 2018
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PostPosted: 01/04/21 1:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
This free agency period will be very interesting. We will find out which General Managers are great Poker players and which ones struggle to play Checkers.


Go ahead and put Greb Bibb on the Checkers list.... uuuuggghhh!!!


DFWub2018



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PostPosted: 01/04/21 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Speaking about the Sky’s lone draft pick, I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Sky draft Iliana Rupert at 8. I forgot James Wade’s nationalities are both American and French. He could also find a way to acquire a late-rounder or two to try & get some other draft-worthy French players, since this is the year to do so. Could’ve already had some had they not thought Mavunga was so valuable to trade for. Confused (I get what they were doing at the time, but it still backfired when they needed it to work the most)


Noooooooo....I have her on my wish list, besides we need her more than they do😪


mavcarter
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PostPosted: 01/16/21 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jantel Lavender remains baffled by trade from Sky but optimistic about possible future with Fever

Quote:
”I could not believe when they traded me.’’


Quote:
The trade still doesn’t quite make sense to Lavender.

‘‘You think of longevity. Can you really see yourself winning a championship this year?’’ she said. ‘‘It was promising early on, but . . . you’re trading in desperation [not] to build for the future. I just think it was kind of an impulsive decision.’’


https://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-sky-and-wnba/2021/1/16/22227465/jantel-lavender-remains-baffled-by-trade-from-sky-fever-mavunga-wnba



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 01/16/21 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Jantel Lavender remains baffled by trade from Sky but optimistic about possible future with Fever

I'm guessing her being traded away would've made more sense to her had Mavunga actually contributed to the Sky. As it is, Lavender can always sign back with the Sky if the Sky wanted her back as well; but judging by the article, it sounds like Lavender actually wants to give the Fever a chance. No clue why – I think of the Fever as damn near a lost cause at this point...

I also thought Lavender didn't feel comfortable playing until a vaccine was out. I mean, technically it is, but in all likelihood she and much of the rest of the League won't be vaccinated by the time the season starts. I guess she gave herself an out by not specifically saying she didn't feel comfortable playing until she, her team, and her opponents were all vaccinated. Razz



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 01/16/21 6:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
but judging by the article, it sounds like Lavender actually wants to give the Fever a chance. No clue why – I think of the Fever as damn near a lost cause at this point... Razz


She mentions in the article that’s she’s done ring chasing and wants play with a young team that hasn’t won a title.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 01/16/21 7:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wade had also obviously done the maths already and knew he'd likely only be able to keep one (at most) of Cheyenne Parker or Lavender, so trading Lavender away made no difference if Parker was going to be the preference anyway. It doesn't really make any difference regardless, considering they could reunite immediately if both sides wanted to.

A 32-year old center coming off multiple surgeries on her feet probably isn't going to be at the top of anyone's list anyway, to be honest.



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Stormeo



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PostPosted: 01/16/21 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Stormeo wrote:
but judging by the article, it sounds like Lavender actually wants to give the Fever a chance. No clue why – I think of the Fever as damn near a lost cause at this point... Razz


She mentions in the article that’s she’s done ring chasing and wants play with a young team that hasn’t won a title.


I read that part, and she made it sound like she was already picking the Fever despite being a UFA. But also: the Fever have won a title before, even if it was with completely different players. Dallas & New York at this point are in a much better position to climb the standings than Indiana, and either team could arguably utilize Lavender's skills & veteran experience better than Indiana could.



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mavcarter
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PostPosted: 01/16/21 8:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She said she feels a loyalty to the Fever, so shit who knows at this point.. Laughing

I also remember reading somewhere how Lavender said Catchings made her feel important or something like that. Can’t remember where I read it though.. Embarassed



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