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Coronavirus Deaths, Death Rates, Testing, Other Stats
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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 12/24/20 3:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
$2000 to each of 330 million people STILL wouldn't add up to $900 billion. It would be less than $700 billion.


The Washington Post is ballparking it as $600 going to 150M American households. That’s only $90 billion. They don’t, of course, actually say that. What they’re calling it is a $900 billion dollar coronavirus relief bill. And that’s really why the American news media and especially the elite mainstream political press IS actually, as it turns out, the enemy of the people. Because their newsrooms are NOT a pilight-level numbers geek free zone. They got people who can do the math and have.

It is ALL a fucking charade. The whole damn thing.


It's actually more complicated than that. It's $600 per adult, but there's an income cap that starts at an AGI of $75K in 2019, and the payment is decreased until it hits zero at an AGI of $87K. Plus there's an additional $600 for each child under the age of 17. So some households will get well over $600 if they have a lot of kids, and some will get nothing, depending on income level. I'm sure the total is still way under $900B.

https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/calculate-your-possible-second-stimulus-check-total-600-1200-more/


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 12/24/20 3:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay. But it shouldn’t be impossible to get a ballpark figure. How about taking the total money in the bill and start subtracting Saudi Arabia etc and see what’s left. Laughing

Still, how can the Washington Post get away with this sloppy telling of it?

“Some blamed Trump for torpedoing a $900 billion relief package at the last minute. Others agreed with Trump that the proposed $600 checks for over 150 million American households was too little, too late and should be raised to at least $2,000.”

$600 x 150 million is $90 billion dollars. Those two sentences together are very confusing.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61821
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 12/24/20 4:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
$2000 to each of 330 million people STILL wouldn't add up to $900 billion. It would be less than $700 billion.


The Washington Post is ballparking it as $600 going to 150M American households. That’s only $90 billion. They don’t, of course, actually say that. What they’re calling it is a $900 billion dollar coronavirus relief bill. And that’s really why the American news media and especially the elite mainstream political press IS actually, as it turns out, the enemy of the people. Because their newsrooms are NOT a pilight-level numbers geek free zone. They got people who can do the math and have.

It is ALL a fucking charade. The whole damn thing.


It's actually more complicated than that. It's $600 per adult, but there's an income cap that starts at an AGI of $75K in 2019, and the payment is decreased until it hits zero at an AGI of $87K. Plus there's an additional $600 for each child under the age of 17. So some households will get well over $600 if they have a lot of kids, and some will get nothing, depending on income level. I'm sure the total is still way under $900B.

https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/calculate-your-possible-second-stimulus-check-total-600-1200-more/



330 million people is every man, woman, and child in the country. If every single one got the whole $600 it would be less than $200 billion. The cost of what they're actually doing, as your link explains it, is likely under $100 billion. Congress' political cronies and special interests are getting about 90% of the "relief".



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Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 12/24/20 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They really need to fix this. $600 per adult (based on income) and $600 per child under 17 is crazy!

People with no kids under 17 are getting screwed more than they normally do.

The woman across the street from me will be getting $600. That's it. The people beside her will be getting $4,200!!!!!!! You can't tell me that the standard cost of living for them is that much more.

She can't even make her mortgage payment with the $600. They can make their mortgage payment, car payment, buy new clothes, new phones and take a small vacation!!!

It's so wrong.

They need to do something like $2,000 to each household and then a couple hundred for each additional person.



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calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 4493
Location: Carson City


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PostPosted: 12/24/20 7:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
pilight wrote:
$2000 to each of 330 million people STILL wouldn't add up to $900 billion. It would be less than $700 billion.


The Washington Post is ballparking it as $600 going to 150M American households. That’s only $90 billion. They don’t, of course, actually say that. What they’re calling it is a $900 billion dollar coronavirus relief bill. And that’s really why the American news media and especially the elite mainstream political press IS actually, as it turns out, the enemy of the people. Because their newsrooms are NOT a pilight-level numbers geek free zone. They got people who can do the math and have.

It is ALL a fucking charade. The whole damn thing.


It's actually more complicated than that. It's $600 per adult, but there's an income cap that starts at an AGI of $75K in 2019, and the payment is decreased until it hits zero at an AGI of $87K. Plus there's an additional $600 for each child under the age of 17. So some households will get well over $600 if they have a lot of kids, and some will get nothing, depending on income level. I'm sure the total is still way under $900B.

https://www.cnet.com/personal-finance/calculate-your-possible-second-stimulus-check-total-600-1200-more/



330 million people is every man, woman, and child in the country. If every single one got the whole $600 it would be less than $200 billion. The cost of what they're actually doing, as your link explains it, is likely under $100 billion. Congress' political cronies and special interests are getting about 90% of the "relief".


Because the stimulus bill was included within the overall budget bill it will probably be impossible to truly parse out the cost of the stimulus provisions alone, but there is no doubt there are huge benefits for the wealthy in the form of tax breaks. The worst of these is a further benefit for small businesses that previously got paycheck protection loans (and those that will get an additional nearly $300 billion under this stimulus. The loans, which wind up being forgiven in almost all cases, are not taxable, but now the businesses can still deduct the costs that are paid with these loans. So the owner of a company that makes $1 million per year can't get the $600 stimulus check, but they get an additional tax break worth far more.

This wouldn't be a problem if they went to truly "small" businesses, but when they go to sports teams, law and accounting firms and other very wealthy businesses it is truly welfare for the rich.

There are other provisions that go for appropriate Covid-related costs, like nearly $70 billion for vaccines and other public heath costs, $50 billion (estimate) for additional unemployment payments, $25 billion for rental assistance and $13 billion for food programs.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13240
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 12/26/20 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Who knew that the one thing that could bring Republicans and Democrats together was the ability to exploit the pain and suffering of the American people to corruptly give billions of dollars to lobbyist, special interest, pet projects and foreign governments all while throwing their arms out patting themselves on the back?

It is almost as if everyone in power is a corrupt sociopath without a shred of common decency. drowning in hypocrisy and arrogance. It is almost as if the elite are using a deadly pandemic to shift even more power away from the people while the richest are laughing all the way to the bank. It is almost as if we just had an election that supposed to make us feel we are finally free of a tyrannical dictator only to find out that the whole system is so rotten that nothing is really going to change except the new/old people in power will be better at messaging and presentation that they will be able to do all the same corrupt crap without it being as obvious.

Many of us hate Trump for a myriad of good reason, but the real reason the political insiders hate him because of what he just did, he just put their shit in a spotlight and put them on blast.

Please do not get me wrong, I blame him too, I mean a man who can get huge amounts of republican senators and representatives to not even say that Joe Biden won this far after the elections because they are so scared shitless of him and his base certainly could of twisted their arm for 2000 dollar stimulus checks months ago. An also don't get me wrong I think Trump not signing the bill is less about altruism than screwing over everyone who won't help him stay in power and leaving a trail of scorched earth behind him while keeping himself popular and viable to keep screwing with everyone until he runs again in 2024, but in this case he ain't wrong.

This is why everyone hates the government and congress most of all. 300k + people are dead, millions of business are lost forever, millions of Americans lives and life savings have literally been lost while their jobs were made illegal all in the hopes that the people's sacrifice will save lives, but our lives do not matter. They fuck with us for months roadblocking themselves to prevent anyone being helped before the election and then they finally come together to help and this is what they do. I want to say UNBELIEVABLE but unfortunately it is TYPICAL. And except for our psyches being slightly gifted not having to see the orange monster that was a never ending SNL sketch without any jokes as our leader, and MSNBC ratings tanking because he is no longer around I don't think much else is going to change


Truth, truth and MORE TRUTH. Cool
I've had my suspicions for a long time, but plugging into Chris Hedges over the past few months has solidified my opinion on this, that -- Trump/Biden, Biden/Trump -- it's ALL merely adjusting the shade of Lipstick on The Pig: underneath it all, it's still just a pig.



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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 12/26/20 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Signing off on the above.



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 12/28/20 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The House passed the $2,000 increase today. Again, blame the actual people responsible.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 13240
Location: OREGON (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 12/28/20 10:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
The House passed the $2,000 increase today. Again, blame the actual people responsible.


....blame for??



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 12/28/20 10:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Considering the leaders of the house knew they had the votes for a stand alone stimulus bill for $2,000 why did they wait until December 28th to vote on it?

They could have easily passed the same thing they passed today months ago as a stand alone bill and forced the Senate to vote on it or shut it down allowing the Republicans to take the blame, why didn't they do that?

A) A stand alone bill wouldn't contain all the other funding for the things they desired that were unrelated to the stand alone bill.

B) Trump might have thrown his weight behind it and forced Republican senators to support it or face the wrath of his base and that could have helped his election cause.

C) House leadership was so out of touch with the people that they weren't aware how bad the suffering was and therefor it never crossed their mind to approach stimulus issues in the way they are now.

D) all of the above.

I hope the 2000 dollars goes through (I am not sure it will) but I am not going to applaud House leadership for putting this through on December 28th only after their hand was forced by of all people President Trump. There may be degrees of where blame should be placed, and I realize McConnell is pure evil, but again why wasn't this (and many other stimulus related issues; eviction moratorium, payroll protection, food insecurity support, funding for vaccine roll out and testing, etc) put through as a stand alone bills months ago when it was clear that the larger packages were never going to get through?

And by the same token if we are not to assign some blame to house leadership for not doing that, then are we supposed to give the lion share of the credit if the $2000 checks do go through to Trump?


DivaORcat16



Joined: 13 May 2020
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PostPosted: 12/28/20 11:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So, this all seems a little (or a lot) crazy to me. People are losing a week of unemployment benefits but are now getting the $600. They aren't actually gaining much.

And, I REALLY don't agree with the bump to 2,000 for EACH PERSON in a household. There should be a cap if that larger amount actually goes through. I know some people are struggling but it sounds like the government has no measures in place to control who actually should get the help other than by income. Example: my parents and MIL who are all retired (Social Security and pensions) got the last round of payments for $1200 each that they just stuck away.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 12/29/20 1:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NH is getting $2B from this package, and some of the funds are earmarked for state fisheries and airports.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61821
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PostPosted: 12/29/20 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
The House passed the $2,000 increase today. Again, blame the actual people responsible.


Now that they know there's no chance of it happening. I didn't see them fighting for the people when it mattered. They were too busy paying back their contributors.



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Hawkeye



Joined: 10 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 12/29/20 8:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The bill gets to 900 billion. Not all the money goes to people.

https://www.ncsl.org/ncsl-in-dc/publications-and-resources/covid-19-economic-relief-bill-stimulus.aspx


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 01/04/21 5:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
tfan wrote:
.... love to hear people say "Over 300,000 deaths, and that is all on Trump and Fauci".


You seem very intent on conflating the roles of these 2 men in this crisis as equivalent. Fine, view it as you wish. I'll never buy it, though, and neither will the majority of people who are objective. You always seem to forget that NO ONE could have anticipated this -- it was unprecedented in its scope and virulence -- so uncertainty and errors were axiomatic.


This is incorrect. They don't know exactly how many people the 1918 Spanish Flu killed, but it is estimated to be over 50 million people worldwide. In the USA the estimate is 675,000 Americans died. If you adjust 675,000 for the difference in population sizes, it would be equivalent to 2,174,365 Americans dying today.

America's foremost infectious disease talking head was born in 1940 and would have had grandparents and teachers who lived through and had recollection of the 1918 Spanish Flu. And worldwide travel has increased greatly since 1918 making the spread of an infectious disease even more likely. But unfortunately, up to this point, the western infectious disease poseurs don't believe in travel bans or even travel with mandatory monitored and guarded quarantine as a way to deal with the spread of a deadly human-to-human-transmission infectious disease (including any of its more transmissible mutations). Hopefully this pandemic has got them to see that not banning travel can ultimately be more economically damaging than banning travel (don't know why they seem to think economic disruption is part of their concern). Not to mention the greater health damage to humans.

And as far as "seeing it coming", we also had China to look at. A place that had to build emergency hospitals to handle all the patients the virus was creating and it restricted travel into and out of a region of 55 million people with severe lockdowns internal to that region.

Quote:

Did both men make errors? Definitely.

Did both men acknowledge their errors and walk back their mistakes as science revealed the newest evidence? NOOO. One of them STILL thinks it was all handled beautifully.


What errors has Fauci admitted to? That is, other than the bogus mask stuff they all lied about and that anyone paying attention knew was a lie at the time because they said they didn't work while adding that we also needed to save masks for medical personnel dealing with people who had the virus.


Shades



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PostPosted: 01/16/21 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-covid-19-death-toll-is-even-worse-than-it-looks-11610636840?redirect=amp#click=https://t.co/EvBl8Fd4AY



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