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mavcarter
#NATC
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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 Posted: 12/28/20 11:24 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
If you are LA and your cap crunch means you can only afford one of N. Ogwumike or C. Gray who do you keep?
Also considering Bonner innovated the UFA sign and trade for the super max what could LA get for N. Ogwumike or C. Gray (please remember LA has the get a much cheaper option in return for Gray or Ogwumike to free up money for the rest of their roster).
I"ve got
N. Ogwumike to NY for pick #1
N. Ogwumike to Dallas for pick #2 (maybe throw in pick #7 (or #7 for #10 swap) or KLS)
N. Ogwumike to Atl for pick #3 (and maybe something else 2nd round pick in 22 or Cazorla or right to R.Montgomery if she is open to signing for say 100K)
N. Ogwumike to Chi for Deshields (Obviously Chicago can no longer afford Ch. Parker and might have to find anew home for Dolson or Copper to make the money work)
C. Gray to Atl for pick #3 or Hayes
C. Gray to Atl for Hayes (who is still on old CBA money around 100K)
C. Gray to LV for J. Young and pick #12 or first round pick in 22 (this assumes LV doesn't re-sign McBride)
C. Gray to NY for Durr
C. Gray to Minn for Dangerfield and pick #9
C. Gray to Dallas for Harris and pick #5
(As a NY fan I don't think we are on the timeline to compete so we probably wouldn't need to make a move for Gray or Ogwumike but you never know what GMs are thinking) |
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J-Spoon
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 12528
Location: Dallas , Texas
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| Posted: 12/29/20 12:23 pm ::: |
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| Nneka Mama said COME HOMMMMEEEEEEEE !!
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3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 24349
Location: London
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| Posted: 12/29/20 1:37 pm ::: |
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I know it was a hypothetical, but they can keep Gray and Nneka. It's even possible to keep Gray, Nneka and Parker even if all three demand/require the supermax to keep them - that just increases the squeeze elsewhere.
Of course they can only core one, so one or more players could take the option out of their hands. |
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 10911
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| Posted: 12/29/20 2:25 pm ::: |
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| WNBA 09 wrote: |
| Nneka Mama said COME HOMMMMEEEEEEEE !! |
Pops says "Fierce women don't need to come home to Mama...."
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas
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Sparksfan
Joined: 18 Aug 2015
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| Posted: 12/29/20 6:19 pm ::: |
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| If LA core 4 of Nneka Ogwumike, Candace Parker, Chelsea Gray and Chiney Ogwumike all take about a 40k pay cut they will all be able to stay plus it will allow LA to chase another big star. I don't think any of those 4 are going into free agency with their hearts set on the super max
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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Location: Queens
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Sparksfan
Joined: 18 Aug 2015
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| Posted: 12/30/20 10:15 pm ::: |
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| Dreak Fisher has a Vet player who is loyal to their franchise the only thing he has to do he communicate correctly and Parker is back in LA. Candace Parker is Los Angeles to lose watch Fisher mess it up. He has one job get Parker back in LA and I bet he won't get it done
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 12/31/20 11:33 am ::: |
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| I would be stunned if Parker didn't play for the Sparks. I'm unwilling to bet actual money on many things, but I'd bet she's back (barring injury or something like that).
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 12/31/20 6:23 pm ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| I would be stunned if Parker didn't play for the Sparks. I'm unwilling to bet actual money on many things, but I'd bet she's back (barring injury or something like that). |
I agree completely. Candace is very much the drama queen, and she tends to disgust me very much like Kobe did when he used to complain about every single uncalled foul against him. My thinking against Kobe as well as Candace was similar:
"Of course you are going to get fouled! You have rare, elite offensive talent, and no one! can stop you consistently without fouling you. That is the only way even the elite defenders can hope to stop you. There is no need to go mouthing off to the refs after every uncalled foul: all you will accomplish is having the refs get aggravated with your eternal whining. A few timely, discreet chats with the refs about uncalled fouls will go much further to command the refs' respect for you and to ensure you get treated more fairly."
However, Candace has very rare talent, and I wish she had the self motivation to push herself like Kobe, MJ and other unworldly superstars did. Failing that, Ace needs a coach who has the personal insight to consistently push her buttons in a positive manner, without invoking a negative pushback response with this quietly mercurial super talent. Being the young mother that Ace is, I often wondered how much further she would have developed in sheer consistency if she did not have an energetic youngster draining some of her energy every blessed day.
Ace is the official reigning 2020 WNBA top defender. Even though many would challenge that WNBA defensive award (myself included), Candace does showcase impressive skills in her defensive game at times. The same quickness, agility, strength, timing & accuracy that highlights her passing (especially the court-length passes) & scoring also shows up with her steals & occasional monster blocks. The defensive and (to a lesser extent) offensive problem has been consistency. Candace tends to do as much as she feels she needs to do to win ... and no more. She has rarely played with the every minute intensity of a Cheryl Miller, Lisa Leslie, or Tamika Catchings.
I remembered workout warrior Lisa Leslie, who had invited Ace to work out regularly with her, after being rebuffed by Candace, bewailing how the younger generation had less grinders than the old school crowd. Can anyone imagine a primetime Candace playing with the every minute ferocity of workout warrior Lisa?
I still regard Cheryl Miller as being the greatest overall female basketball talent I have ever seen as far as playing the complete game, offensively and defensively. However, a motivated primetime Candace who is balling out consistently would be a very, very interesting challenge to a primetime Cheryl Miller.
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Spark4Life
Joined: 05 Mar 2009
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jewelsongs
Joined: 07 May 2010
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| Posted: 01/30/21 12:46 pm ::: |
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| So we lost CP3 and we lost Gray, but we kept and promoted Fisher. I guess we will see how that works out.
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007
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| Posted: 01/30/21 12:53 pm ::: |
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| jewelsongs wrote: |
| So we lost CP3 and we lost Gray, but we kept and promoted Fisher. I guess we will see how that works out. |
I am hoping Maria "Mashas" Vadeeva will be rejoining the Sparks this coming season. Masha's star potential may be ripe to go supernova.
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 01/30/21 4:38 pm ::: |
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so
Wheeler/Cooper
Toliver/(R. Williams and/or Augustus)
Sykes/Weise
N. Ogwumike/Anigwe
(Vadeeva)/(C. Ogwumike)/Gulich
pick #10 pick #15
If they can get the parenthesis to show up, draft well or make one more decent free agent signing they will still be competitive.
Just as Parker might be incentivized in her new home there is probably a lot of incentive for those still in LA to do well as well.
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Stormeo
Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 4701
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| Posted: 01/30/21 4:57 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
so
Wheeler/Cooper
Toliver/(R. Williams and/or Augustus)
Sykes/Wiese
N. Ogwumike/Anigwe
(Vadeeva)/(C. Ogwumike)/Gülich
pick #10 pick #15
If they can get the parenthesis to show up, draft well or make one more decent free agent signing they will still be competitive.
Just as Parker might be incentivized in her new home there is probably a lot of incentive for those still in LA to do well as well. |
According to this, not even all of those people you have in parenthesis will be back either.
| Quote: |
People close to the matter:
Mindset in LA- Candace and Chelsea helped LA win title in 2016 and have cemented themselves as organizational legends,
but excited to build a fresh culture around Nneka, Sykes, Toliver, Cooper, and Chiney(exclusive rights) |
Don't see Riquna Williams' name listed there, for example.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63763
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| Posted: 01/30/21 5:48 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
so
Wheeler/Cooper
Toliver/(R. Williams and/or Augustus)
Sykes/Weise
N. Ogwumike/Anigwe
(Vadeeva)/(C. Ogwumike)/Gulich
pick #10 pick #15
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Doesn’t seem too far off here.
The Sparks also extended a QO to Tolo, but maybe they don’t have any real expectation of her showing up and just did it to retain her rights.
But there is an interesting international player the Sparks once signed but didn’t sign to a QO this year. I wonder if the Sparks no longer own her rights? She’s a great player and would be very helpful to the Sparks right now. Do you know who I’m talking about, Spooner?
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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Sparksfan
Joined: 18 Aug 2015
Posts: 81
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| Posted: 01/30/21 5:56 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
so
Wheeler/Cooper
Toliver/(R. Williams and/or Augustus)
Sykes/Weise
N. Ogwumike/Anigwe
(Vadeeva)/(C. Ogwumike)/Gulich
pick #10 pick #15
|
Doesn’t seem too far off here.
The Sparks also extended a QO to Tolo, but maybe they don’t have any real expectation of her showing up and just did it to retain her rights.
But there is an interesting international player the Sparks once signed but didn’t sign to a QO this year. I wonder if the Sparks no longer own her rights? She’s a great player and would be very helpful to the Sparks right now. Do you know who I’m talking about, Spooner? |
Your talking about Alina Iagupova . Who has said she doesn't want to play in The WNBA
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6796
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| Posted: 01/30/21 5:59 pm ::: |
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| Sparksfan wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
so
Wheeler/Cooper
Toliver/(R. Williams and/or Augustus)
Sykes/Weise
N. Ogwumike/Anigwe
(Vadeeva)/(C. Ogwumike)/Gulich
pick #10 pick #15
|
Doesn’t seem too far off here.
The Sparks also extended a QO to Tolo, but maybe they don’t have any real expectation of her showing up and just did it to retain her rights.
But there is an interesting international player the Sparks once signed but didn’t sign to a QO this year. I wonder if the Sparks no longer own her rights? She’s a great player and would be very helpful to the Sparks right now. Do you know who I’m talking about, Spooner? |
Your talking about Alina Iagupova . Who has said she doesn't want to play in The WNBA |
I think Anigwe is playing with her right now so maybe she will try to convince her
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 63763
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| Posted: 01/30/21 6:17 pm ::: |
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| J-Spoon wrote: |
| Sparksfan wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
so
Wheeler/Cooper
Toliver/(R. Williams and/or Augustus)
Sykes/Weise
N. Ogwumike/Anigwe
(Vadeeva)/(C. Ogwumike)/Gulich
pick #10 pick #15
|
Doesn’t seem too far off here.
The Sparks also extended a QO to Tolo, but maybe they don’t have any real expectation of her showing up and just did it to retain her rights.
But there is an interesting international player the Sparks once signed but didn’t sign to a QO this year. I wonder if the Sparks no longer own her rights? She’s a great player and would be very helpful to the Sparks right now. Do you know who I’m talking about, Spooner? |
Your talking about Alina Iagupova . Who has said she doesn't want to play in The WNBA |
I think Anigwe is playing with her right now so maybe she will try to convince her |
I wonder if she’s hurt because it looks like she’s only played 3 games for Fenerbahce. That team has Kiah Stokes, Kia Vaughn, Kayla McBride, Zandalasini.... don’t see Anigwe.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 6796
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| Posted: 01/30/21 6:19 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
| Sparksfan wrote: |
| Shades wrote: |
| J-Spoon wrote: |
so
Wheeler/Cooper
Toliver/(R. Williams and/or Augustus)
Sykes/Weise
N. Ogwumike/Anigwe
(Vadeeva)/(C. Ogwumike)/Gulich
pick #10 pick #15
|
Doesn’t seem too far off here.
The Sparks also extended a QO to Tolo, but maybe they don’t have any real expectation of her showing up and just did it to retain her rights.
But there is an interesting international player the Sparks once signed but didn’t sign to a QO this year. I wonder if the Sparks no longer own her rights? She’s a great player and would be very helpful to the Sparks right now. Do you know who I’m talking about, Spooner? |
Your talking about Alina Iagupova . Who has said she doesn't want to play in The WNBA |
I think Anigwe is playing with her right now so maybe she will try to convince her |
I wonder if she’s hurt because it looks like she’s only played 3 games for Fenerbahce. That team has Kiah Stokes, Kia Vaughn, Kayla McBride, Zandalasini.... don’t see Anigwe. |
I might be getting my international players confused
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RP
Joined: 17 Jul 2010
Posts: 1299
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| Posted: 01/31/21 12:01 pm ::: |
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In 2018, Ogwumike led a 21-win team in win shares and PER (but that was Chiney, not Nneka). Nneka was still by far the Sparks best player in 2019 (a 22-win team), and that same year we saw Toliver do what the Sparks haven't been able to since she left -- win another title. Sykes is primed for a larger role, Vadeeva as well.
In short, the Sparks had more missing in 2020 than what they just lost. The problem is they were not particularly close to being good enough to win a title the last few years, which adding Toliver should have solved. Without Parker and Gray, that door is probably no longer open.
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WfanFrJmp
Joined: 24 May 2016
Posts: 1423
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| Posted: 02/01/21 10:38 pm ::: |
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| RP wrote: |
In 2018, Ogwumike led a 21-win team in win shares and PER (but that was Chiney, not Nneka). Nneka was still by far the Sparks best player in 2019 (a 22-win team), and that same year we saw Toliver do what the Sparks haven't been able to since she left -- win another title. Sykes is primed for a larger role, Vadeeva as well.
In short, the Sparks had more missing in 2020 than what they just lost. The problem is they were not particularly close to being good enough to win a title the last few years, which adding Toliver should have solved. Without Parker and Gray, that door is probably no longer open. |
Imho, I wouldn't say they had more missing than they lost, but the additions would've filled some holes. I really would've loved to see the 2020 team as constructed be able to give it a go this year.
Toliver/Weise
Gray/Williams
Sykes/TRP
Nneka/Anigwe
Parker/Chiney/Masha/Gulich
I think that squad had a chance but honestly, the playoff losses the last two seasons has reduced confidence in how far they could go under Fish... (which may be what CP and Chels felt). Regular season was fine both years, but when the rubber met the road, the wheels fell off. Albeit, transition to new coaching style (and the coach learning the women's game) is a challenge, as well as the fact that they were suffering with injuries going into playoffs, so it is not that they lost, it is the WAY they lost. I've never seen an LA squad completely not have the ability to adjust to defensive schemes and struggle that much in the post season.
Honestly, this year's squad looks promising, so far. I'd switch it a little:
Toliver/Wheeler/Cooper
Weise/(R. Williams)
Sykes/TRP (or Augustus)
N. Ogwumike/Anigwe
(C. Ogwumike)/(Vadeeva)
but other teams have gotten pretty strong (on paper). For, LA in particular, the post season will be the tell-tale for sure... We shall see!
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