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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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 Posted: 12/11/20 5:24 pm ::: |
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I would HOPE that the voters are at least SOMEWHAT informed on what each team gained and lost interms of talent and can make educated guesses on how much better or worse they will perform relative to the previous year.
Of course it's impossible to predict individual improvement, or freshmen impact. But generally year by year I pretty much agree with the Preseason Top 25, and am mostly surprised when a ranked team falls out early. As for this year, I don't think Notre Dame belonged anywhere near the Top 25 to begin with, and Iowa State to me still looks like a Top 3 Big 12 team even though they've definitely had some growing pains early with 3 freshman starters.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 12/12/20 9:38 pm ::: |
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| lots of losers this week. interesting to see what the pollsters do with it.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 12/14/20 1:44 pm ::: |
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| So NC State still got 2 first place votes after that abysmal showing against BC. Sometimes I think some of them don't bother to look at the games.
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 12/14/20 2:00 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| So NC State still got 2 first place votes after that abysmal showing against BC. Sometimes I think some of them don't bother to look at the games. |
Well, first of all, the AP poll has historically never punished teams for a "bad losses". Secondly, this is not even that bad of a loss. BC should be a tournament team and could finish as high as 4th in the ACC after Louisville, NC State and Syracuse. Games played amongst BC, GT, UNC, Wake and VT should determine 4-8th placement and I don't see why the Eagles couldn't finish on top of that list.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 12/17/20 2:47 pm ::: |
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> Louisville, NC State and Syracuse. Games played amongst BC, GT, UNC, Wake and VT
So these are your top eight?
Florida State, who is receiving top 25 votes in both the AP and coaches poll isn't going to finish in the top eight? I find that difficult to believe.
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SDHoops
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
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| Posted: 12/17/20 4:48 pm ::: |
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| I hope South Dakota will get in there soon. They have been on a win streak since the Mowers Classic..mind you they took then #1 SC to the wire and lost in OT to ranked Gonzaga. There's some ranked teams with worse resume's..
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pilight
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 12/21/20 5:08 pm ::: |
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| Maybe Washington State deserves some consideration next week. Yes, they just lost, but it was a one point game with under 30 seconds left against #8 Oregon.
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pilight
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 12/31/20 2:03 pm ::: |
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| Phil wrote: |
> Louisville, NC State and Syracuse. Games played amongst BC, GT, UNC, Wake and VT
So these are your top eight?
Florida State, who is receiving top 25 votes in both the AP and coaches poll isn't going to finish in the top eight? I find that difficult to believe. |
Florida State just beat VT, I continue to think they are better than 9th in the ACC
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pilight
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pilight
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PickledGinger
Joined: 04 Oct 2013
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| Posted: 01/11/21 4:39 pm ::: |
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| With their first ever ranking, WSU becomes the final Power 5 team to appear in the AP Top 25. Congratulations to them. It has been a long road to get here.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 01/11/21 5:16 pm ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| With their first ever ranking, WSU becomes the final Power 5 team to appear in the AP Top 25. Congratulations to them. It has been a long road to get here. |
I can understand the reluctance to rank them because of their historical struggles, but the fact is they beat both UCLA and Arizona, who remain much higher in the rankings, and have only lost (barely) to Oregon. 25 seems pretty low.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 01/11/21 6:08 pm ::: |
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So, how do the conferences fare in the week 8 poll?
If I give 25 points for the #1 ranking down to one point for the #25 ranking, here is the result:
SEC = 21+19+14+12+9+3 = 78
P12 = 25+18+16+15+1 = 75
B10 = 17+13+11+8+4 = 53
ACC = 24+23+2 = 49
BEC = 22+7 = 29
B12 = 20+5 = 25
AAC = 10
WCC = 6 |
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FrozenLVFan
Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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| Posted: 01/11/21 6:19 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| With their first ever ranking, WSU becomes the final Power 5 team to appear in the AP Top 25. Congratulations to them. It has been a long road to get here. |
I can understand the reluctance to rank them because of their historical struggles, but the fact is they beat both UCLA and Arizona, who remain much higher in the rankings, and have only lost (barely) to Oregon. 25 seems pretty low. |
That seems to be standard procedure. Tenn came into the rankings this week at 23, having beaten 17 Arkansas and 18 Indiana, and losing only to WVU on the road in OT.
I don't see how Northwestern merits that #22 either.
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GEF34
Joined: 23 Jul 2008
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| Posted: 01/11/21 7:22 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| With their first ever ranking, WSU becomes the final Power 5 team to appear in the AP Top 25. Congratulations to them. It has been a long road to get here. |
I can understand the reluctance to rank them because of their historical struggles, but the fact is they beat both UCLA and Arizona, who remain much higher in the rankings, and have only lost (barely) to Oregon. 25 seems pretty low. |
They haven’t played UCLA this year yet, the top 25 win over UCLA mentioned was from 2017. But they do have a top 25 win over then ranked Oregon State. With that said I was also surprised they were 25, I thought they might be 23 or 24, but I was also a bit surprised they didn’t get ranked after beating a ranked Oregon State and almost beating a ranked (and top 10) Oregon.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 01/14/21 9:09 pm ::: |
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| so...how is it that NCState and Louisville don't play each other this year? I would think that every team in a conference would play each other at least once. This seems so weird to me.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 01/14/21 10:41 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| so...how is it that NCState and Louisville don't play each other this year? I would think that every team in a conference would play each other at least once. This seems so weird to me. |
They were *supposed* to play this coming Sunday, but NC State is still in COVID protocols.
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 01/14/21 10:46 pm ::: |
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| Queenie wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| so...how is it that NCState and Louisville don't play each other this year? I would think that every team in a conference would play each other at least once. This seems so weird to me. |
They were *supposed* to play this coming Sunday, but NC State is still in COVID protocols. |
ok, so then I presume it's postponed but not cancelled? I was just looking at the ESPN schedule and it wasn't listed.
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If only we’re brave enough to be it.
- Amanda Gorman
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mzonefan
Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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Location: Ann Arbor, MI
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| Posted: 01/15/21 6:18 am ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| Queenie wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| so...how is it that NCState and Louisville don't play each other this year? I would think that every team in a conference would play each other at least once. This seems so weird to me. |
They were *supposed* to play this coming Sunday, but NC State is still in COVID protocols. |
ok, so then I presume it's postponed but not cancelled? I was just looking at the ESPN schedule and it wasn't listed. |
I think pretty much all conferences are listing games as postponed at this point. How they are going to pick which ones to squeeze into remaining schedules is the question! Do you go in order of postponement or just play whichever team is available on your bye day?
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 01/16/21 10:52 am ::: |
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| PickledGinger wrote: |
| With their first ever ranking, WSU becomes the final Power 5 team to appear in the AP Top 25. Congratulations to them. It has been a long road to get here. |
Wow, I did not realize that.
A milestone, to be sure.
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Phil
Joined: 22 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 01/16/21 11:02 am ::: |
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| GEF34 wrote: |
| myrtle wrote: |
| PickledGinger wrote: |
| With their first ever ranking, WSU becomes the final Power 5 team to appear in the AP Top 25. Congratulations to them. It has been a long road to get here. |
I can understand the reluctance to rank them because of their historical struggles, but the fact is they beat both UCLA and Arizona, who remain much higher in the rankings, and have only lost (barely) to Oregon. 25 seems pretty low. |
They haven’t played UCLA this year yet, the top 25 win over UCLA mentioned was from 2017. But they do have a top 25 win over then ranked Oregon State. With that said I was also surprised they were 25, I thought they might be 23 or 24, but I was also a bit surprised they didn’t get ranked after beating a ranked Oregon State and almost beating a ranked (and top 10) Oregon. |
Human polls have their strengths but they also have some weaknesses. When a team has been mediocre for a long time, and then wins a few, humans sometimes want to see a little more evidence before giving full credit. I call it inertia, and it works in both directions although I think that is more of a reluctance to move up than to move down. Computer rankings don't have that same problem although they have other shortcomings. I've been a long fan of the Massey rankings which rank Washington state at number 24. I confess I was a little surprised in light of your observation, but while they've won quite a few games they've won some of them closer than perhaps they should. And you couldn't have known this when you posted but they just lost to USC last night. USC is not a terrible team, and perfectly capable of beating someone ranked in the low 20s but had they been in the teens it would've been much more unlikely. 24 seems about right to me.
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 01/16/21 12:15 pm ::: |
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USC also got two post players back from injury, which allowed them to really control the inside. WSU is small and lacks depth, but they move the ball so well and play at such a fast tempo that they will be a tough out all year.
A fully healthy USC, by the way, is just another high-level Pac-12 team.
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