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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 10/14/20 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't think the issue of "wildlife" markets is that simple. Many of the wet markets in the world sell mainly domesticated animals, not wildlife, and provide both a livelihood for farmers and a food source for the population. The WHO has declined to advise that all markets be closed and has taken a position that stringent food safety procedures need to be followed for the sale of domesticated animals and that wildlife should not be sold. Note that the WHO only serves in an advisory capacity and cannot institutes bans within a sovereign country.


Luuuc
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PostPosted: 10/14/20 6:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's weird, right?
This thing that has turned the whole world upside down was supposedly started in a way that is quite avoidable. You'd think that everyone would be desperate to get to the bottom of it, and learn everything there is to learn to prevent the same thing happening again.
But no one wants to risk offending the sensitive bully.



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Howee



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PostPosted: 10/15/20 12:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
It's weird, right?
This thing that has turned the whole world upside down was supposedly started in a way that is quite avoidable. You'd think that everyone would be desperate to get to the bottom of it, and learn everything there is to learn to prevent the same thing happening again.
But no one wants to risk offending the sensitive bully.


I dunno....45 does his darnedest to offend EVERYONE, and he's had special venom for China.

Determining sources for such pandemics is obviously an important goal; however, how possible is that goal? in contrast, the source of the (far deadlier) Spanish Flu was never pinpointed, was it? I'd even heard Kansas farmers got that one started.

I do NOT get the vindictiveness of the political fallout for these places, unless it is meant to induce better transparency and warning systems to avoid similar recurrences.



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Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 10/15/20 7:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
It's weird, right?
This thing that has turned the whole world upside down was supposedly started in a way that is quite avoidable. You'd think that everyone would be desperate to get to the bottom of it, and learn everything there is to learn to prevent the same thing happening again.
But no one wants to risk offending the sensitive bully.


I dunno....45 does his darnedest to offend EVERYONE, and he's had special venom for China.

Determining sources for such pandemics is obviously an important goal; however, how possible is that goal? in contrast, the source of the (far deadlier) Spanish Flu was never pinpointed, was it? I'd even heard Kansas farmers got that one started.

I do NOT get the vindictiveness of the political fallout for these places, unless it is meant to induce better transparency and warning systems to avoid similar recurrences.


I'm still trying to figure out who the "sensitive bully" Luuuc is referring to is.😉



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“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 10/15/20 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
It's weird, right?
This thing that has turned the whole world upside down was supposedly started in a way that is quite avoidable. You'd think that everyone would be desperate to get to the bottom of it, and learn everything there is to learn to prevent the same thing happening again.
But no one wants to risk offending the sensitive bully.


I dunno....45 does his darnedest to offend EVERYONE, and he's had special venom for China.

Determining sources for such pandemics is obviously an important goal; however, how possible is that goal? in contrast, the source of the (far deadlier) Spanish Flu was never pinpointed, was it? I'd even heard Kansas farmers got that one started.

I do NOT get the vindictiveness of the political fallout for these places, unless it is meant to induce better transparency and warning systems to avoid similar recurrences.


This is a good article about investigative avenues to determine the source of this virus. In a nutshell, it's complicated and the answers aren't likely to appear overnight.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/who-led-mission-may-investigate-pandemic-s-origin-here-are-key-questions-ask


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 10/15/20 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One of the difficulties in finding info about the virus origin is that the Chinese have allegedly destroyed the data on their earliest patients. I read an article saying it is especially important to have data on patient zero and the Chinese say they don’t have it. They also lied their asses off about it. The first case (and 3 of the first 4) they saw had no connection to the wildlife market and it took another month and a half for them to acknowledge it was transmissible between humans. The WHO tweeted on January 14th:

Quote:
Preliminary investigations conducted by the Chinese authorities have found no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission of the novel #coronavirus (2019-nCoV) identified in #Wuhan, #China🇨🇳.


But how did they think the non wildlife market patients got it in December?



readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7355
Location: Durham, NC


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PostPosted: 10/18/20 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow. Just wow. Cases in the US are spiking again and we're talking about how this started? There are going to be organisms released into the environment from the melting ice pack so new viruses and bacteria are going to be a way of life. Almost every country in the world did a better job of reducing harm to their population than the US has done.

The failure of this President to respond to a medical crisis due to A. Not believing scientists and B. Determination to punish blue states.

The people are speaking to the pollsters and will speak in the polls. The giant swing in intentions of elders to switch from Rep to Dem is 99% due to his inability to deal with COVID. The other 1% is because they know he's trying to take away Social Security and Medicare.

And please don't come back with "he blocked Chinese from entering the country." The strain that wiped out the east coast came from Europe. And the Americans that were allowed to return from China spread infection on the west coast. The blockade on Chinese was the weakest response to the pandemic imaginable and the results have proven that to be true.

Right now we're seeing story after story of attendees at the motorcycle party who have infected their relatives who've died. Why was this allowed to happen? No other country would have allowed it to occur. But we have "freedom" here. Freedom to kill other people.

The country that is second worst in responding to the virus is Brazil, who have a President who is a cheeto clone. Science denier. Defendant of "freedom."



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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 10/19/20 4:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Wow. Just wow. Cases in the US are spiking again and we're talking about how this started? There are going to be organisms released into the environment from the melting ice pack so new viruses and bacteria are going to be a way of life. Almost every country in the world did a better job of reducing harm to their population than the US has done.

The failure of this President to respond to a medical crisis due to A. Not believing scientists and B. Determination to punish blue states.

The people are speaking to the pollsters and will speak in the polls. The giant swing in intentions of elders to switch from Rep to Dem is 99% due to his inability to deal with COVID. The other 1% is because they know he's trying to take away Social Security and Medicare.

And please don't come back with "he blocked Chinese from entering the country." The strain that wiped out the east coast came from Europe. And the Americans that were allowed to return from China spread infection on the west coast. The blockade on Chinese was the weakest response to the pandemic imaginable and the results have proven that to be true.

Right now we're seeing story after story of attendees at the motorcycle party who have infected their relatives who've died. Why was this allowed to happen? No other country would have allowed it to occur. But we have "freedom" here. Freedom to kill other people.

The country that is second worst in responding to the virus is Brazil, who have a President who is a cheeto clone. Science denier. Defendant of "freedom."


A general question to our constitutional experts. How does our federal govt have the power to stop motorcycle rallies in SD and limit wedding attendees in ME? Or are those functions limited to the states? Does the process depend on a (rational) POTUS strong-arming governors to get on board with a national pandemic plan?


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 10/22/20 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

OK, I just had to get tested (I'm negative). I don't know if anyone else here has been tested, but let me tell you that SUCKED!!! I don't know how these people (athletes, politicians, etc) get tested all the time. It was very unpleasant.

I don't want to have to do that again!!!



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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Shades



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PostPosted: 10/26/20 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Yz4DF3jQWhk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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readyAIMfire53



Joined: 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 7355
Location: Durham, NC


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PostPosted: 11/01/20 3:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
OK, I just had to get tested (I'm negative). I don't know if anyone else here has been tested, but let me tell you that SUCKED!!! I don't know how these people (athletes, politicians, etc) get tested all the time. It was very unpleasant.

I don't want to have to do that again!!!


I've been tested twice. It felt like they were collecting brain tissue. But I've had cancer three times so it was basically nothing. Nothing at all. If that's on your list of complaints about medical procedures, then you're lucky. It's not in my top 100. A mammogram is FAR worse...and a mammogram is not on my list. Getting a melanoma removed isn't on the top 100. Getting a COVID test isn't even on top 500.



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 11/01/20 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

readyAIMfire53 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
OK, I just had to get tested (I'm negative). I don't know if anyone else here has been tested, but let me tell you that SUCKED!!! I don't know how these people (athletes, politicians, etc) get tested all the time. It was very unpleasant.

I don't want to have to do that again!!!


I've been tested twice. It felt like they were collecting brain tissue. But I've had cancer three times so it was basically nothing. Nothing at all. If that's on your list of complaints about medical procedures, then you're lucky. It's not in my top 100. A mammogram is FAR worse...and a mammogram is not on my list. Getting a melanoma removed isn't on the top 100. Getting a COVID test isn't even on top 500.


You're right, I have been pretty fortunate as far as health and medical procedures go. Aside from having an ingrown toenail pulled out when I was 5 or 6 and a broken arm set a few years later (same old-timey doctor with no compassion did both), anything else that was painful/uncomfortable was done under general anesthesia so I thankfully have no memory of it.

This felt like they were sticking a toilet bowl brush up my nose!



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"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
Luuuc
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 11/08/20 7:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote



*insert yawning GIF* This thing is getting really boring at this point, amirite?



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 1:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We're going to break 10M cases tomorrow. I don't think I've seen any believable good news on COVID in months. I have, however, seen anti-maskers posting gleefully on social media that it's now possible to buy masks that look like real masks but are really just open weave mesh so they can look like they're complying with mask ordinances while exerting their own "rights" to disbelieve health recommendations.


Luuuc
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PostPosted: 11/09/20 1:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
We're going to break 10M cases tomorrow. I don't think I've seen any believable good news on COVID in months. I have, however, seen anti-maskers posting gleefully on social media that it's now possible to buy masks that look like real masks but are really just open weave mesh so they can look like they're complying with mask ordinances while exerting their own "rights" to disbelieve health recommendations.

Wow. Human resourcefulness knows no bounds. Life throws another tough challenge at us, and we find a solution!



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 8:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
We're going to break 10M cases tomorrow. I don't think I've seen any believable good news on COVID in months. I have, however, seen anti-maskers posting gleefully on social media that it's now possible to buy masks that look like real masks but are really just open weave mesh so they can look like they're complying with mask ordinances while exerting their own "rights" to disbelieve health recommendations.


I see people come in where I work with beaded masks and masks that appear to be made out of sheer curtain-type material. Pisses me off. I want to slap them and teach them the curtsey that their parents didn't. Wink



_________________
"Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw

“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
Posts: 3510



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 9:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
We're going to break 10M cases tomorrow. I don't think I've seen any believable good news on COVID in months. I have, however, seen anti-maskers posting gleefully on social media that it's now possible to buy masks that look like real masks but are really just open weave mesh so they can look like they're complying with mask ordinances while exerting their own "rights" to disbelieve health recommendations.


I see people come in where I work with beaded masks and masks that appear to be made out of sheer curtain-type material. Pisses me off. I want to slap them and teach them the curtsey that their parents didn't. Wink


Does your employer, community, or state mandate masks? Report them. Given the increased prevalence of COVID and the CDC finally acknowledging that airborne transmission can occur, there's no excuse for people not wearing genuine masks in the workplace.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 11/09/20 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You couldn’t make this world up if your name was Orwell Vonnegut.

Pfizer has a COVID vaccine. It’s 90% effective. No, what am I saying! It’s MORE than 90% effective! New York Times has a glossy Sunday Magazine style piece announcing. DOW up 1500 at one point.

It’s a whole new world. Laughing

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer.html



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
You couldn’t make this world up if your name was Orwell Vonnegut.

Pfizer has a COVID vaccine. It’s 90% effective. No, what am I saying! It’s MORE than 90% effective! New York Times has a glossy Sunday Magazine style piece announcing. DOW up 1500 at one point.

It’s a whole new world. Laughing

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/09/health/covid-vaccine-pfizer.html


"early results"...waiting for "long-term safety and efficacy data" to be collected..."not peer-reviewed"

We've heard similar announcements from other vaccine programs that have failed to produce a viable vaccine. I'm not going to jump up and down over this one.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 11/09/20 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I didn't realize they were at the stage where they were infection vaccine testers with the coronavirus. Thought it was still looking for harmful side effects. 90% is way higher than they were talking about so almost sounds too good to be true. But if that holds up it sounds high enough to eradicate the virus if enough people take it.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 11/09/20 9:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I didn't realize they were at the stage where they were infection vaccine testers with the coronavirus. Thought it was still looking for harmful side effects. 90% is way higher than they were talking about so almost sounds too good to be true. But if that holds up it sounds high enough to eradicate the virus if enough people take it.


There isn't remotely enough information in that "preliminary" report to assume this is going to work. Even if it's 90% effective, it needs to stay effective for at least a year to be useful.


Luuuc
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PostPosted: 11/09/20 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Each of these bits of "news" in isolation are things we maybe shouldn't get our hopes up too high too quickly about, but in combination they're all painting a picture to me that it's a matter of when, not a matter of if.
We've always had the capability. Just needed the will and the time. I don't think there's any lack of will when it comes to a Covid vaccine.

Is it too much to hope that news like this might make people a little less willing to recklessly endanger each other?



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 11/10/20 6:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Is it too much to hope that news like this might make people a little less willing to recklessly endanger each other?


I think so, at least in the US. There are some folks who are just burned out on the precautions who can maybe hold on a bit longer if there's an end to the pandemic in sight, but there's also a large segment of the population who are adamant anti-maskers because they feel doctors know nothing and their rights are being infringed upon by being asked to wear masks. Nothing is going to change the minds, or behavior, of sociopaths.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 11/11/20 4:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'd read yesterday that Pfizer's vaccine required special cold storage, but it's more complicated than that. Their vaccine has to be maintained at -70*C (-94*F). That means it needs to be transported on dry ice, which will require special handling. Hospitals and pharmacies have no facilities to store vaccines at this temperature, and their personnel will require additional training. There's a rush to buy super-cold freezers that can be used and there apparently aren't enough in stock. Using normal freezers means that all of the vaccines from an opened dry ice package have to be used in 2-5 days, or it will be inactivated and the facility will need more. Distribution to rural areas and administration via mobile programs is going to be difficult. While this is huge problem that the US can potentially overcome, much of the world is likely not going to be able to manage it.

Some of the other vaccines in development don't require this, so we'd better hope they work.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/940641?src=wnl_edit_tpal&uac=369619HT&impID=2670433&faf=1#vp_2


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 11/11/20 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

....and of course, The Orange One is belly-aching cuz of the inopportune (for him) *timing*. Is there no end to his fkktardedness?? Evil or Very Mad



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