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How to reform the police
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calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 4568
Location: Carson City


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PostPosted: 06/08/20 11:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Moved from another thread:


The issue of defunding police is obviously complex. Over the past 20 years the role of police has grown dramatically. Get police out of schools, I agree, but what takes its place. Get police and jails out of mental health and alcohol and drug abuse, but what takes its place.

I agree that the police should not have been militarized; repurposing tanks and other tools of war was a mistake and that should be undone for all but the most serious situations. I agree that the Rehnquist standard that gave rise to institutional immunity (Graham vs. Connor) must be tightened. I also believe that chokeholds and other similar police tactics should be banned. And I believe that police accountability must be increased through civilian review boards, public information on complaints and perhaps even a 3 strikes policy on officer misconduct.

But overall I believe defunding of the police is very likely to create more, not fewer, problems. Accountability costs money, training costs money, and getting more competent police costs money.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 55982



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PostPosted: 06/09/20 8:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/P4Y7gp32Ong" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 06/09/20 2:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The City That Remade Its Police Department
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department

Quote:
“What we’re experiencing today in Camden is the result of many years of deposits in the relationship bank account,” says Scott Thomson, Camden’s chief of police until 2019. He led the city’s high-profile pivot to community policing from 2013 until last year and oversaw what turned out to be a steep decline in crime. Homicides in Camden reached 67 in 2012; the figure for 2019 was 25. Over the past seven years, the department has undertaken some of the most far-reaching police reforms in the country, and its approach has been praised by former President Barack Obama.


Quote:
While many departments define “reasonable” force in the line of duty vaguely, Camden’s definition is much clearer. The department adopted an 18-page use-of-force policy in 2019, developed with New York University’s Policing Project. The rules emphasize that de-escalation has to come first. Deadly force—such as a chokehold or firing a gun—can only be used in certain situations, once every other tactic has been exhausted. “It requires that force is not only reasonable and necessary, but that it’s proportionate,” says Farhang Heydari, executive director of the Policing Project. Most important, “they’re requirements. They’re not suggestions.”


Quote:
By the department’s account, reports of excessive force complaints in Camden have dropped 95% since 2014.


Quote:
“I think the challenge is that you have 18,000 police departments” in the U.S., says Thomson. “It’s an industry that generally is averse to any type of change. The only time change comes is when it’s compelled.”



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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188



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PostPosted: 06/10/20 7:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="907" height="510" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/T3YsNu6PWz4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://youtu.be/T3YsNu6PWz4



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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20677



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PostPosted: 06/11/20 9:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

2016 regarding the Philando Castile shooting:

jammerbirdi wrote:

We're doing this all wrong on so many levels. It's truly tragic. Get a license plate and issue the citation by mail for a busted tail light. If you have a bad address and it doesn't get to the owner of the vehicle OH WELL. It's a freaking busted tail light.

Train the police not better but DIFFERENTLY. TO DO DIFFERENT THINGS. Give them less options to fire into a car with a woman and a kid when you are requiring them to reach for a drivers license. Put a fucking copy of the drivers license on some kind of display like a taxi driver. So cops aren't initiating this physical transaction of a citizen with a busted tail light having to reach for something which freaks out Barney fucking Fife who then shoots him. Let's do some things differently.



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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188



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PostPosted: 06/11/20 8:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188



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PostPosted: 06/13/20 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Retired NYPD spokesman says ‘we killed Eric Garner’ in emotional post



https://nypost.com/2020/06/13/ex-nypd-spokesman-says-we-killed-eric-garner-in-emotional-post/amp/?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR2PQ1BiWgKLD0IffWuBEolI0SaNWeNsn2U5XQrwLeJsuBcAVvssMy33Bgs

I guess there is something about a tax payer funded full benefits retirement package that just frees the soul.



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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 11188



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PostPosted: 06/15/20 5:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trump says he will sign police reform executive order on Tuesday

Quote:
WASHINGTON, June 15 (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump said on Monday he will sign an executive order on police reform and hold a news conference on Tuesday, after several weeks of nationwide protests sparked by the death of African-American George Floyd while in police custody in Minneapolis.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-says-he-will-sign-police-reform-executive-order-on-tuesday/ar-BB15waM6?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=mailsignout



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Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 06/18/20 7:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61965
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 06/18/20 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Glad we heard from somebody in the "superpredator" administration

Another symptom of the problem...




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The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 55982



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PostPosted: 06/25/20 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

3 North Carolina police officers fired over racist rants
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/nation-world/national/article243779512.html

Quote:
Three members of a North Carolina police department have been fired after a department audit of a video recording captured one of the officers saying a civil war was necessary to wipe Black people off the map and that he was ready.

The Wilmington Police Department took the action on Tuesday against Cpl. Jessie Moore, and officers Kevin Piner and Brian Gilmore. Each was accused of violating standards of conduct, criticism and use of inappropriate jokes and slurs.


Quote:
According to documents released by the police department, a sergeant was conducting a video audit as part of a monthly inspection and was reviewing footage from Piner’s car that had been classified as “accidental activation.” After the sergeant listened to the conversation and determined comments made by Piner and Moore were “extremely racist,” she contacted the department administrator for the camera system.

At the 46-minute mark of the video, Piner and Gilmore began talking from their respective cars, at which time Piner criticized the department, saying its only concern was “kneeling down with the black folks.” About 30 minutes later, Piner received a phone call from Moore, according to the investigation, a segment in which Moore referred to a Black female as a “negro.” He also referred to the woman by using a racial slur. He repeated the use of the slur in describing a Black magistrate, and Moore used a gay slur to describe the magistrate as well.

Later, according to the investigation, Piner told Moore that he feels a civil war is coming and that he is ready. Piner said he was going to buy a new assault rifle, and soon “we are just going to go out and start slaughtering them (expletive)” Blacks. “I can’t wait. God, I can’t wait.” Moore responded that he wouldn’t do that.

Piner then told Moore that he felt a civil war was needed to “wipe them off the (expletive) map. That’ll put them back about four or five generations.” Moore told Piner he was “crazy,” and the recording stopped a short time later.


<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/1cjAHqRoG-k" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Last edited by Shades on 06/26/20 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61965
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 06/26/20 7:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Campaign To Remove NYPD From Traffic Enforcement Gains Steam

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2020/06/25/campaign-to-remove-nypd-from-traffic-enforcement-gains-steam/

Quote:
Streetsblog recently reported that of the 440 tickets police issued to people for biking on the sidewalk in 2018 and 2019, 374 — or 86.4 percent — of those where race was listed went to Black and Hispanic New Yorkers. The wildly disproportionate stats followed another report showing that cops issued 99 percent of jaywalking tickets to Black and Hispanic people in the first quarter of this year.



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The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
Force10rulz



Joined: 11 Apr 2009
Posts: 1949
Location: Puget Sound


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PostPosted: 07/01/20 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tear the system down, fire racist cops, they should be easy to find by their history. Then who is left needs to be retrained. New officers need a rigorous background check and then 2 years of training. Other countries have two to three years training and they don’t have the problems this country has.



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Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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PostPosted: 07/13/20 9:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/G7qZLb3jW4I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>



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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61965
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 10/30/20 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Speaking of police training, let's take a look at some...

https://manualredeye.com/90096/news/local/police-training-hitler-presentation/

Quote:
One slide, titled “Violence of Action,” in addition to imploring officers to be “ruthless killer[s],” instructs troopers to have “a mindset void of emotion” and to “meet violence with greater violence.”

A line from Adolf Hitler’s fascist and anti-Semitic manifesto, Mein Kampf, is featured in the slide: “the very first essential for success is a perpetually constant and regular employment of violence.”

The presentation also links to a Hitler page on Goodreads, a database of quotes and books.

Two other slides quoting Hitler bring his total to three, making him the most quoted person in the presentation.



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The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 61965
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 02/22/21 7:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Most Ambitious Effort Yet to Reform Policing

https://www.gq.com/story/ithaca-mayor-svante-myrick-police-reform

Quote:
In a nearly 100-page report obtained by GQ, Mayor Svante Myrick will propose replacing the city’s current 63-officer, $12.5 million a year department with a “Department of Community Solutions and Public Safety” which would include armed “public safety workers” and unarmed “community solution workers,” all of whom will report to a civilian director of public safety instead of a police chief.



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The power of the police to fulfill their functions and duties is dependent on public approval of their existence, actions and behavior, and on their ability to secure and maintain public respect
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20677



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PostPosted: 02/22/21 8:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The Most Ambitious Effort Yet to Reform Policing

https://www.gq.com/story/ithaca-mayor-svante-myrick-police-reform

Quote:
In a nearly 100-page report obtained by GQ, Mayor Svante Myrick will propose replacing the city’s current 63-officer, $12.5 million a year department with a “Department of Community Solutions and Public Safety” which would include armed “public safety workers” and unarmed “community solution workers,” all of whom will report to a civilian director of public safety instead of a police chief.


That’s interesting. The armed public safety workers thing. Is that just semantics? Will they have bulletproof vests and body cams and blue uniforms so that people can differentiate between them and private citizens? Will they have a union? Will their training in terms of the use of deadly force be different? How will they handle a person who is violently resisting arrest, fighting them, trying to take away their weapons, etc? Will they be classified as being law enforcement in terms of their career paths so that they can seek employment in the same field should they move to other states or municipalities? Will this trend around the country?

I would call that just the tip of the iceberg in terms of questions.



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
calbearman76



Joined: 02 Nov 2009
Posts: 4568
Location: Carson City


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PostPosted: 02/24/21 6:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:

That’s interesting. The armed public safety workers thing. Is that just semantics? Will they have bulletproof vests and body cams and blue uniforms so that people can differentiate between them and private citizens? Will they have a union? Will their training in terms of the use of deadly force be different? How will they handle a person who is violently resisting arrest, fighting them, trying to take away their weapons, etc? Will they be classified as being law enforcement in terms of their career paths so that they can seek employment in the same field should they move to other states or municipalities? Will this trend around the country?

I would call that just the tip of the iceberg in terms of questions.


Very good questions, all. In particular the issue of police unions is most interesting, in large part because the establishment of unions is generally supported by the left, but the manner in which police unions have protected themselves in collective bargaining is far more supported by the right. There are no simple answers, particularly when local government budgets are continuously squeezed. It is often much easier for negotiators to give in on work rules rather than increase pay, and that is how the unions get their protections. But then when problems arise that require disciplinary action those "protections" become an impediment to reform.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 20677



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PostPosted: 02/24/21 5:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So many oppose the death penalty, which comes after an ostensibly qualifying crime, a trial, and a conviction... I’m surprised I haven’t heard more, or even any, suggesting something around why don’t we just forbid law enforcement’s use of deadly force in the field on citizens altogether? Take away their firearms. Give them back night sticks and tell them to do the best they can.

And in this present political climate, I’m not even kidding. And even realistically I would have to think that there are some municipalities somewhere where this might even work to some extent and who might have the type of economic situations and social factors where this might even be plausible... for about a half a minute.

Why not try it in high crime areas? Let’s see how that goes. Experiment a little. I mean people wanted to eliminate the police entirely so this wouldn’t even be going as far as some have suggested. Thoughts? Cool



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Every woman who has ever been presented with a career/sex quid pro quo in the entertainment industry should come forward and simply say, “Me, too.” - jammer The New York Times 10/10/17
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