RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Seattle Storm 2021
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 3881
Location: Chocolate Paradise


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/12/20 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stormeo wrote:
Why the WNBA salary cap might be the Seattle Storm's most challenging opponent

So let's say we give Bird & Howard supermax and Clark regular max. Assuming we cut Langhorne & Tuck, that still only leaves us with about $120k left. And that can't all go to just one player, such as Whitcomb – that would only put us at 10 players.

Quote:
One WNBA team executive speculated that Whitcomb could be in line for an offer sheet starting north of $150,000 per season, which would put her well out of the Storm's price range if the starting five returns intact.


No way of knowing how it'll all play out. But after reading that tidbit, it's all but a given that not everyone of value will be able to come back. I wouldn't blame the org. at all for, say, coring Howard with the sole intention of trading her, for example.

Quote:
Richard Cohen of HerHoopsStats.com, who provided all the salary data for this piece

💯

Yeah, when I read that ESPN article and saw that he referenced Richyyy's data I was like way to go one of Rebkell's best on ESPN! Very Happy



_________________
I am .... a bucket.
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 22566
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/12/20 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You guys realise that Mr Pelton is also a member here, right? He just has better things to do than hang out and argue over nonsense with us basement-dwellers most of the time Wink.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 3881
Location: Chocolate Paradise


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/12/20 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
You guys realise that Mr Pelton is also a member here, right? He just has better things to do than hang out and argue over nonsense with us basement-dwellers most of the time Wink.

Now Richyyy, you know that one member here hates the B-word. This person is still angry with Coach Miller for that moniker. Laughing



_________________
I am .... a bucket.
TDAO



Joined: 11 Jun 2005
Posts: 529



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/12/20 2:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
You guys realise that Mr Pelton is also a member here, right?

A member for longer than you, even!


craigmont



Joined: 14 Sep 2005
Posts: 643
Location: Bing-town


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/12/20 3:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
craigmont wrote:
Interesting stuff. If you core Howard, you have to super-max her. If you don't, the most anyone can offer her is the 'regular' max? Am I understanding that right?

The core designation comes with an automatic one-year supermax offer, but the team and player are free to negotiate a lower and/or longer deal if they want to. The core designation then sticks to that player for the length of the deal, unless the player is traded/waived/retires. Coring a player blocks them from negotiating or signing with anyone else.

The most any other team can offer regardless is the standard max, hence the move we saw last season from DeWanna Bonner where she was a true UFA but got Connecticut to sign-and-trade for her anyway, because that was the only way she could get the supermax.

Max next year is $190,550, supermax is $221,450, just for reference.


So there's not a huge difference between the max and the supermax. Thanks for that.

I'm not that into salary-crunching, but do you think there are too many good players in the league for all of them to get the max under the cap?

Is a max or supermax player a cornerstone to build a team around, and if so, does Howard fit that definition? I hate it, but if we had to pick one of Clark, Howard, and Whitcomb to lose, Magbegor and Russell can fill in for Howard.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 22566
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/12/20 3:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

craigmont wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
craigmont wrote:
Interesting stuff. If you core Howard, you have to super-max her. If you don't, the most anyone can offer her is the 'regular' max? Am I understanding that right?

The core designation comes with an automatic one-year supermax offer, but the team and player are free to negotiate a lower and/or longer deal if they want to. The core designation then sticks to that player for the length of the deal, unless the player is traded/waived/retires. Coring a player blocks them from negotiating or signing with anyone else.

The most any other team can offer regardless is the standard max, hence the move we saw last season from DeWanna Bonner where she was a true UFA but got Connecticut to sign-and-trade for her anyway, because that was the only way she could get the supermax.

Max next year is $190,550, supermax is $221,450, just for reference.


So there's not a huge difference between the max and the supermax. Thanks for that.

I'm not that into salary-crunching, but do you think there are too many good players in the league for all of them to get the max under the cap?

Is a max or supermax player a cornerstone to build a team around, and if so, does Howard fit that definition? I hate it, but if we had to pick one of Clark, Howard, and Whitcomb to lose, Magbegor and Russell can fill in for Howard.

30k difference between the two maxes is a lot more than it used to be (it was $2,500 in the previous CBA). No one used to care about the difference, but as Bonner illustrated last year, now it's enough to care.

I wrote about the changes under the new deal and how not every good vet can get the max any more - https://herhoopstats.substack.com/p/beware-the-coming-wnba-cap-crunch . Basically, teams used to be able to carry at least six max players, whereas now it's more like four. Teams have to think about how much they're handing out and who it's going to a bit more than they used to.

Whitcomb, much as I like her, is much more replaceable than an All-World defensive post who can also get you double-digit points and 8 rebounds a night. Howard's also comfortably the youngest of their free agents. The more I think about it, the more I think they'll core her. Even if she does want to leave, Diggins-Smith and Bonner both got three first-round picks for their previous teams last offseason.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 1742
Location: Seattle, WA


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/12/20 11:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Assuming everyone wants to come back (and assuming we don't even consider re-signing Prince), I'm guessing we'd let Whitcomb walk first, since she's more replaceable due to both playing the most common position of shooting guard and being a bench player. We needed her in our 2018 playoff run, but not so much in this year's due to Loyd stepping up her game. If she wants to come back, she'd most likely be the one taking the biggest "pay cut" (by not signing with a team that would hand $150k over to her) in order to fit herself in. She'll never be a starter on this team with Loyd around, so she probably has higher value elsewhere. Though the same sentiment arguably applies to Howard, she at least is a starter (and sometimes even has to play starter-level minutes Wink ).



_________________
Man, f*** all this f***ing horsesh*t (no, yeah, for sure [RIP RBG])
Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 22566
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/12/20 11:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Where would Whitcomb start, though? I could feasibly see her being Quigley-esque given the minutes and things going right, but when you go through the teams most of the vaguely plausible options have several other cap priorities of their own already. And usually players who'd already be ahead of her. Then, given that, is someone giving her 150k to come off the bench and score 8ppg?

Again, I really like Sami Whitcomb. But this is still a 12-team league, and these things always seem a lot more plausible before we start trying to get down to specifics. Almost seems equally plausible to me that Bird plays for 200k-ish, Clark takes 170k-ish, and the extra 40k of space is enough to talk Whitcomb into it. But we'll see. If Kevin talked to a WNBA GM who said she could get 150, then maybe that's because that person is thinking of giving her 150. It only takes one...



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 15941
Location: Holland


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/13/20 8:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wouldnt be suprised that if Birdy decides to come back for 1 more run (months before the season) that she will sign for less then super max if that would keep Howard and Clark.

If the Storm organisation is certain that Stewie will stay and doesnt need to be cored then core Howard for multiple years but less then super max. She is a great player but she is not a true superstar in this league..



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 55093



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/13/20 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
I wouldnt be suprised that if Birdy decides to come back for 1 more run (months before the season)


I’d be shocked if she didn’t come back. She’s eyeing one more Olympics. All bets are off after that.

Michelle89 wrote:
that she will sign for less then super max if that would keep Howard and Clark.


That would be wisest. Oldest is often the wisest (except in this forum Wink), so my guess is Bird won’t hurt the team’s chances at long term success just so she can make $20K-$30K more in her last season.

Same goes for Taurasi. Of course, her situation is slightly different since she’s not on a proven championship team.

Michelle89 wrote:
If the Storm organization is certain that Stewie will stay and doesnt need to be cored then core Howard for multiple years but less then super max. She is a great player but she is not a true superstar in this league..


Stewart is already signed for next season. If Howard needs to be cored, that could make things tricky, because as far as I know, coring has always meant automatic max. There were rumblings that Charles was willing to take less than max last year, but who knows if those were true. My feeling is a player gets cored if the GM isn’t totally sure if that player will stay without being cored. I don’t believe Howard would want to go to another team, but I felt that way about Bonner this season. Difference is SEA is built for a dynasty run if you like that kind of thing.

My estimates for UFA salaries go something like this for an 11 player roster:
Whitcomb $115,000 (Tucks’s money)
Clark $190,500
Howard and Bird split the rest at around $197,000 ea.

If Howard needs supermax, then maybe you can get Clark to sign for $175,000 and Bird for $190,500.

If Whitcomb went away, it would help with the money crunch. Any chance she signs for vet minimum? I could see Reeve peeking her way if other options don’t pan out.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
mavcarter
#NATC


Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 5696
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/13/20 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
The core designation comes with an automatic one-year supermax offer, but the team and player are free to negotiate a lower and/or longer deal if they want to.



_________________
wrote:
Or maybe said poster should quit being a nuisance when people don’t agree?
Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 1742
Location: Seattle, WA


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/13/20 2:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No idea how Howard's own situation will play out. Maybe she's satisfied with having not 1, not 2, but 3 titles to her name; and now wants to be a first option and compete for an MVP award, which she'll never do in Seattle with Stewart around. At the same time, I can also imagine her being content to take a backseat to Stewart for the rest of her career – so long as the price is right. She's definitely not worth the supermax (maybe not even regular max) if she stays in Seattle 'long'-term. Still, I'd lean towards coring her this one time and figuring out the rest – whether it's giving her the one-year supermax, signing her to a cheaper multi-year deal (I highly doubt Stewart goes anywhere in 2022 so long as we offer her the supermax), or feeling out her trade value (which I'm also somewhat curious about). Imo blocking her from negotiating with other teams carries its own value, too.

mavcarter wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
The core designation comes with an automatic one-year supermax offer, but the team and player are free to negotiate a lower and/or longer deal if they want to.

Laughing Laughing Laughing I'm guilty of not having reading comprehension sometimes, but at least I'm not too ashamed to admit it. Mr. Green



_________________
Man, f*** all this f***ing horsesh*t (no, yeah, for sure [RIP RBG])
Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 15941
Location: Holland


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/14/20 4:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Michelle89 wrote:
I wouldnt be suprised that if Birdy decides to come back for 1 more run (months before the season)


I’d be shocked if she didn’t come back. She’s eyeing one more Olympics. All bets are off after that.

Michelle89 wrote:
that she will sign for less then super max if that would keep Howard and Clark.


That would be wisest. Oldest is often the wisest (except in this forum Wink), so my guess is Bird won’t hurt the team’s chances at long term success just so she can make $20K-$30K more in her last season.

Same goes for Taurasi. Of course, her situation is slightly different since she’s not on a proven championship team.

Michelle89 wrote:
If the Storm organization is certain that Stewie will stay and doesnt need to be cored then core Howard for multiple years but less then super max. She is a great player but she is not a true superstar in this league..


Stewart is already signed for next season. If Howard needs to be cored, that could make things tricky, because as far as I know, coring has always meant automatic max. There were rumblings that Charles was willing to take less than max last year, but who knows if those were true. My feeling is a player gets cored if the GM isn’t totally sure if that player will stay without being cored. I don’t believe Howard would want to go to another team, but I felt that way about Bonner this season. Difference is SEA is built for a dynasty run if you like that kind of thing.

My estimates for UFA salaries go something like this for an 11 player roster:
Whitcomb $115,000 (Tucks’s money)
Clark $190,500
Howard and Bird split the rest at around $197,000 ea.

If Howard needs supermax, then maybe you can get Clark to sign for $175,000 and Bird for $190,500.

If Whitcomb went away, it would help with the money crunch. Any chance she signs for vet minimum? I could see Reeve peeking her way if other options don’t pan out.


The wouldnt be suprised part is about her taking less then super max and not about being back for 1 more year (if healthy). Taurasi has signed on for less in the past to help the team so i could see that happening again if that increases their chances for a championship.

I know that Stewie is signed for next season but after that she will be a free agent. So like Richyyy said if you core Howard for 1 year then they are both free agents at the same time. You dont want that so hopefully Stewie has made it clear that she wants to stay with the Storm for many more years so that she doesnt need to be cored and they can core Howard and sign her for multiple years and less then super max.



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
myrtle



Joined: 02 May 2008
Posts: 26948



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/14/20 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:


That would be wisest. Oldest is often the wisest (except in this forum Wink),

.


Just so you know, I resent that comment. Wink



_________________
“Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud.”
― Maya Angelou
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 5753



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/14/20 11:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Does Howard seem like a Bonner-esque trade candidate?

I could see a lot of up and coming teams with cap space being willing to pay her the super max while giving up a lottery pick and a decent young player for a potential top 10 player in Howard (if she returns to close to her 18 or 19 form) with championship experience

Seattle could save money , pay everyone else without pushing for a discount, expect Magbegor or Russell to be ready to take the leap as full-time starter next season and get some young cheaper assets in return for the post Bird (21) future, while also saving the core spot and a super max deal for Stewart in 21.


Stormeo



Joined: 14 Jul 2019
Posts: 1742
Location: Seattle, WA


Back to top
PostPosted: 10/15/20 10:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Does Howard seem like a Bonner-esque trade candidate?

Yes. Confused I hope we core her, on the off-chance she (unlike Bonner) is actually willing to sign with another team for less than $200k. Cuz if we had to trade her away, at least the return should produce some cheap talent that'll keep our bench deep for the next few years.



_________________
Man, f*** all this f***ing horsesh*t (no, yeah, for sure [RIP RBG])
cass



Joined: 26 May 2018
Posts: 11



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/19/20 4:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is a little in between topics, but I've been watching the 2004 championship run the past couple days and it's really wild to see such a young Sue Bird. Plus watching Betty Lennox carry the team is a delight and also forgotten surprise--then you've got Nykesha Sales and a brilliant rookie Lindsey Whalen on the Sun. Such a close championship--you have to wonder how things would have ended in a best of 5.

As a Storm/WNBA fan for only about the last 10 years or so, it's really fun to get to watch another incarnation of this team and also to see how much the game has changed. Here's the youtube link if anyone else is looking for something to watch (not the best quality but full of all the fun WNBA promos & such): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QaM5NlqGi7c


Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
Posts: 6180



Back to top
PostPosted: 10/21/20 9:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Storm endorse Biden/Harris. Probably not much of a surprise.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/wnba/storm/2020/10/21/joe-biden-kamala-harris-get-support-wnba-champion-seattle-storm/3722503001/



_________________
"The biggest antidote to his poison is the vote.” — Nancy Pelosi

"Our democracy is designed to speak truth to power." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez

"If this guy can be Senator, you can do anything." — Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin